Why are we losing so many receivers?!?!

[VOLywood]

What evidence is there to back that up?

90% of your WRs bailing is all the evidence you need. Either there is no confidence in Iamaleava or he's disliked.

 

[VOLywood]

What evidence is there to back that up?

90% of your WRs bailing is all the evidence you need. Either there is no confidence in Iamaleava or he's disliked.

 

[barney]

Interesting Webb is same guy that coached Hyatt and Tillman. I don’t think it’s the position coach as much as it’s the system. Other teams have adjusted and our sustem runs very basic routes with the WR spread out very wide. Putting 3 safeties with CB taking away the inside routes, and very few pre-snap shifts and motion, and it’s hard to get separation. Then the faking injuries have taken away the hurry up. Defenses give us the run, which is why we had Wright and Sampson putting up great numbers.

He coached Hyatt and Tillman in their final year in the system. The first two years it was Kodi Burns. The route tree changed drastically after Golesh left and Pope's only prolific passing season was Tennessee in 2022. Literally other year in his career as a position coach teams have been averaging under 250 ypg and his receivers have been under 500 yds receiving. My theory is that he got a lot of help from Golesh in 2022 which masked his deficiencies as a position coach.

 

[DavidASmithRN]

I really like Concepcion and honestly I wouldn’t mind Heupel telling MM to stick it and getting KC and maybe Burke from Florida just to teach some of the kids a lesson with playing these games. I’m not sure he has the same potential as MM, but thus far in Heupel I trust.

Conception is going to aTm

 

[0059862]

What evidence is there to back that up?

For one, ALL OUR RECEIVERS ARE LEAVING! I don't know about you, but if I get along well with someone, I'm not so quick to leave them. Chemistry with a teammate is golden.

 

[cgrish]

Did you watch our offense the last 2 years? Why would any receiver want to play here

I agree with that. Prior to the last 2 years at least we did try and throw downfield much more. The last two years very little down field passing, very very few across the middle of the field, mostly screens and short passes now.

 

[cgrish]

Perhaps, but what does that say about the ability of our coaches to evaluate players.

Ok, this is Hype's 4 yr. right? So what star players do we have on the roster, really stand out players that Hype recruited? Boo Carter is going to be good, who else, jury still out on Nico. I am somewhat concerned about coaches ability to recognize good talent. We have the Milton, Hooker deal. Hooker was already here and recruited over to get Milton. We have a 5 star receiver riding the pine this year. I don't know what Matthews can do, have not seen enough of him. I am still very supportive of Hype, would not trade him for any available coach. I am just concerned.

 

[cgrish]

What SEC school not named Vanderbilt does any of our receivers start at?

Imo Thornton is our best receiver, Bru has been good.

 

[0059862]

Chemistry won't get any better under Nico's tenure. You guys are grasping at straws blaming everything under the sun, when it's so blatant, his receivers don't care for him

 

[cgrish]

Looks like most of the top portal WRs have been taken already.

That's what I been saying. Some article said our coaching staff waiting till Jan. Maybe we been talking to some not in the portal yet, which not supposed to do but everyone doing it.

 

[0059862]

90% of your WRs bailing is all the evidence you need. Either there is no confidence in Iamaleava or he's disliked.

They don't want to believe it! My guess is he's disliked and they don't want to play with him. Lack of chemistry destroys a team quicker than anything. If this is true, the coaches need to address it and move on before we're relegated to years like this for the rest of his tenure. Those boosters providing those millions will howl though!

 

[tone357]

IMHO, part of it is Heupel's offense. The two wideouts are only running three and sometimes four-routes. That makes them somewhat predictable and severely limits their production numbers. Only one guy, Cedric Tillman, has had a 1000-yard season, not counting Jalin Hyatt, since he was in the slot. Tillman was exceptional in catching 50/50 balls. Sending the Z straight down the field to the endzone with a DB in his face and boxing him using the sideline is a low-percentage play for most receivers. Not him. Not using the entire route tree in the offense is not a good strategy, IMHO, and I think this is PART of the reason so many receivers are leaving. If I were a receiver, this would give me pause.

 

[Golfprovol]

This maybe the reason some of our WR either could not get on the field or are leaving. This describes how intelligent our receivers must be, having to read different players and set up different concepts. If our guys could not do this, coupled with Nico being slower, then the offense would stall.

 

[Dro]

IMHO, part of it is Heupel's offense. The two wideouts are only running three and sometimes four-routes. That makes them somewhat predictable and severely limits their production numbers. Only one guy, Cedric Tillman, has had a 1000-yard season, not counting Jalin Hyatt, since he was in the slot. Tillman was exceptional in catching 50/50 balls. Sending the Z straight down the field to the endzone with a DB in his face and boxing him using the sideline is a low-percentage play for most receivers. Not him. Not using the entire route tree in the offense is not a good strategy, IMHO, and I think this is PART of the reason so many receivers are leaving. If I were a receiver, this would give me pause.

Yep and the pass 2 years have been bland passing wise. No advanced passing concepts, Motion to create missmatches. Not even a slant route lol.


Just WR screen, Go Post Hitch/Curl and dig. No Crossers or Slants, hell anything different to get people open.

Add on with a QB that cant make reads why would any reciever want to play in this offense right now?

 

[Orange.]

Stop the bashing and fear-mongering. Dumb people and Chicken Littles freaked out when we revamped the DBs, too.

 

[tone357]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed this. They're trying to fit every receiver that came after Tillman into his square hole when they are round pegs.

 

[tone357]

This maybe the reason some of our WR either could not get on the field or are leaving. This describes how intelligent our receivers must be, having to read different players and set up different concepts. If our guys could not do this, coupled with Nico being slower, then the offense would stall.

Yep and the pass 2 years have been bland passing wise. No advanced passing concepts, Motion to create missmatches. Not even a slant route lol.


Just WR screen, Go Post Hitch/Curl and dig. No Crossers or Slants, hell anything different to get people open.

Add on with a QB that cant make reads why would any reciever want to play in this offense right now?

It's not a question of their intelligence. Any receiver, even a sandlot receiver can figure out which route to run based on how they're being covered. The offense itself limits both QBs and Receivers. While the receiver is figuring out which route to turn, the QB has to wait for him and not go through the progressions. The ball is going to one guy or the QB is instructed to run it! Rarely do you see a Heupel QB going through the progressions. So, IMHO. It's not Nico being slow, and it's not the receivers' lack of intelligence. It's the inherent weaknesses of Heupel's offense. If I can see it, I guarantee highly paid professional coaches can see it.

 

[Golfprovol]

It's not a question of their intelligence. Any receiver, even a sandlot receiver can figure out which route to run based on how they're being covered. The offense itself limits both QBs and Receivers. While the receiver is figuring out which route to turn, the QB has to wait for him and not go through the progressions. The ball is going to one guy or the QB is instructed to run it! Rarely do you see a Heupel QB going through the progressions. So, IMHO. It's not Nico being slow, and it's not the receivers' lack of intelligence. It's the inherent weaknesses of Heupel's offense. If I can see it, I guarantee highly paid professional coaches can see it.

I would say the stats disagree with you
CJH passing offense rankings
2018 - 5th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 8th
2021 - 7th
2022 - 1st
2023 - 19th
2024 - 72nd

Seems the last 2 years with QB's who cant seem to complete the deep ball and read defenses we struggled. If "highly paid professional coaches" could not stop it from 2018-2022 then what makes you think they all of a sudden had a light bulb moment in 2023?

 

[MemphisVol77]

2018 - 5th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 8th
2021 - 7th
2022 - 1st
2023 - 19th
2024 - 72nd

That a typo? If not, where are you getting your stats from?

ESPN has us15th in yds a game and 14th in points per game.

Sports reference is almost identical.

2024 College Football Team Offense | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the 2024 College Football Team Offense and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

They've got us 15th in yds a game and 13th in points per game.

EDIT: Doh!!!! Nevermind. I see you're posting passing yards per game.

 

[tone357]

I would say the stats disagree with you
CJH offense rankings
2018 - 5th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 8th
2021 - 7th
2022 - 1st
2023 - 19th
2024 - 72nd

Seems the last 2 years with QB's who cant seem to complete the deep ball and read defenses we struggled. If "highly paid professional coaches" could not stop it from 2018-2022 then what makes you think they all of a sudden had a light bulb moment in 2023?

I spoke specifically about his offense regarding receivers (not counting the slot). No one is saying the offense wasn't productive as your stats indicate. But if you look at the WR numbers, it's concerning. Keyton in 23 had 642 yards, McCoy in 24 had 472, and Brazzell had 323. Again, they're tasked with running 3 to 4 of the routes in a 9-route tree. And the problem is not the QBs not being "able" to read defenses. It's them not being "asked" to read them! The plays call for the SLOT receiver, "NOT the WIDE OUTS," to pick an option; the QBs wait for that route to open up, so there is no reading involved. How many times have you seen a Vol QB under Heupel take a 2nd or 3rd option? I'll wait. My point is that the way he uses his wideouts not only stifles them personally but also hurts his offense. Besides, how close have the Vols been to a championship during his time?

 

[MemphisVol77]

How many times have you seen a Vol QB under Heupel take a 2nd or 3rd option? I'll wait. My point is that the way he uses his wideouts not only stifles them personally but also hurts his offense. Besides, how close have the Vols been to a championship during his time?

Dude, in 2022 Hooker checked off just about every time he shuffled position and reset in the pocket. In all fairness, neither Milton nor Nico have had the kind of protection and been able to reset anywhere near as much as Hooker was able to.

In 2022 we were 1 loss away from needing to win 2 more games (CFP) and claim a Natty.
- or potentially 3 more games (SECCG) to win the SEC and a Natty.

This year we were 1 loss away from having to win 3 more games (CFP) and claim a Natty.
- or potentially 4 more games (SECCG) to win the SEC and a Natty.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Dude, in 2022 Hooker checked off just about every time he shuffled position and reset in the pocket. In all fairness, neither Milton nor Nico have had the kind of protection and been able to reset anywhere near as much as Hooker was able to.

In 2022 we were 1 loss away from needing to win 2 more games (CFP) and claim a Natty.
- or potentially 3 more games (SECCG) to win the SEC and a Natty.

This year we were 1 loss away from having to win 3 more games (CFP) and claim a Natty.
- or potentially 4 more games (SECCG) to win the SEC and a Natty.

You and your pesky facts and stats.
Ain’t nobody got time for dat

 

[Golfprovol]

I spoke specifically about his offense regarding receivers (not counting the slot). No one is saying the offense wasn't productive as your stats indicate. But if you look at the WR numbers, it's concerning. Keyton in 23 had 642 yards, McCoy in 24 had 472, and Brazzell had 323. Again, they're tasked with running 3 to 4 of the routes in a 9-route tree. And the problem is not the QBs not being "able" to read defenses. It's them not being "asked" to read them! The plays call for the SLOT receiver, "NOT the WIDE OUTS," to pick an option; the QBs wait for that route to open up, so there is no reading involved. How many times have you seen a Vol QB under Heupel take a 2nd or 3rd option? I'll wait. My point is that the way he uses his wideouts not only stifles them personally but also hurts his offense. Besides, how close have the Vols been to a championship during his time?

How does the way he uses the wideouts stifle his offense since he has been ranked in the top 10 in 7 out of 9 seasons.

 

[Golfprovol]

That a typo? If not, where are you getting your stats from?

ESPN has us15th in yds a game and 14th in points per game.

Sports reference is almost identical.

2024 College Football Team Offense | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the 2024 College Football Team Offense and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

They've got us 15th in yds a game and 13th in points per game.

EDIT: Doh!!!! Nevermind. I see you're posting passing yards per game.

Had me worried I read something wrong there for a sec......

I added "passing" to the post

 

[BLUTickbusdriver]

Several valid points have been discussed regarding the WR situation. However, I believe I can add some more clarity by taking a closer look at a different position. Throughout the year, we heard that Peyton Lewis was the “fastest guy on the team,” and yet, they only handed the ball off to him up the middle. If I had a player who could run a legit 6.2 in the 55 meters, I would try every way possible to maximize his utility by calling in plays such as a halfback pass to the flat or a drag route where he could take on a much slower linebacker or a much smaller CB. These strategies were never attempted…not once! Whether it stems from Hype’s scheme, a lack of creativity, or limitations in football IQ on the part of our quarterback, this issue needs to be addressed immediately. We must “open up the playbook” or thoroughly revamp it to ensure we get the ball to our best athletes in space. This also applies to our receivers!