Why are we here

#26
#26
Bottom line, until we quit hiring Alabama guys nothing will improve. Dave Hart, Jeremy Pruitt. I will give Hart this, he hired Rick Barnes. Quite possibly the only decent hire in the last 15 years. Pruitt doesn’t care about this program. He’s an Alabama guy making a crap ton of money, to do what? A 5 game SEC losing streak, each game by double digits. Hasn’t been done since 1891. I ask someone to explain this to me. If you go to a UT game And watch all of pregame warmups for both teams. Pruitt works them to death in pregame by far compared to the other team. You wonder why we lose every single 2nd half. It’s pretty obvious. We’re exhausted by the 3rd quarter. Don’t believe me, go to the next game and go into the stadium 90 minutes before kick. You’ll see exactly what I mean. This day and age a Power 5 head coach should have a reasonably high IQ. I’m pretty confident our coach is near the bottom of that list. Time to move on from Pruitt and Fulmer as well.
 
#27
#27
I'm not trying to be a Fulmer apologist, but I felt like the latter part of Dickey and Hamilton were too cheap to hire good assistants. Don't hold me to this because it's totally from memory, but it seems like when I remember seeing the first coordinator cross the $1mil mark we still had Randy Sanders and we were paying him $175k (which was still too much).

I felt like as the 2000s went own, we were getting behind because all we could afford were duds like Pat Washington, etc.

I initially supported the Fulmer as AD hire because of these reasons. I told a good friend of mine that I felt like Phil would remember his situation and would open the checkbook for JP to hire anyone he wanted. It does seem like Phil has done this but JP has either made bad hires or is just a terrible coach (likely both).

Anyway, things really unraveled with the Kiffin hire. Him leaving so close to signing day left us with few choices since a coach of any integrity wouldn't leave a school hanging like that. So, settling on Dooley further compounded the problem and made us an even less desirable job.
 
#28
#28
volfan411 said:
So getting hired at Kentucky, USC and interviewing for smaller HC positions had only to do with him playing at UT? Come on he might only have a job here because of Fulmer but Tee will be hired somewhere if he wasn’T here.
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I'm talking about the here and now, he failed miserably at USC
 
#30
#30
BigOrangeMojo said:
Hammy saved a little bit of cash and hired Kiffin over Patterson. He saved a little more cash by essentially eliminating Kiffin's buyout. Kiffin leaves. Hire bargain bin #2. He sucks a$$. Hire bargain bin #3. Much like a Trumpet player, he blows. We drag feet on hiring proven coach, let him go to rival, hire Bargain Bin 4. Fans revolt. Hire guy with no experience that had limited interviews in past and hes Bargain bin #5. He ends up being in over his head but bid against ourselves and extend him with a 13-12 record.
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Haslem kept Currie from hiring Mullen because Haslem wanted Schiano for a reason unbeknownst to me. Would it have mattered ? Who knows.............pass that cornbread 'aight?
 
#32
#32
The old 5 why drill down.
Why- Hamilton
Why- Haslam
Why- Hart
Why- other AD that got fired
Why- Fulmer
 
#33
#33
a vol n tears said:
Why is the football program gotten in this state?
Were we ever “special” like some believe. Career 70% winners. Occasionally getting enough talent to win championships. I think LSU has done that twice with coaches not that great. Fulmer won 1 NC and it took 2 miracle finishes + playing against a back up QB in the champ game.
In the modern era of SEC, when money is everywhere, and most of the schools are hiring the best available, Fulmer struggled. Was Tenn just too slow to adjust and just got left behind.
Is there a problem / different philosophy in the adm that keeps Tenn from moving forward.
Some say throwing money at a proven coach will work, but I have continually argued you cannot hire a proven winner away from their current job. You only get them bigger raises. Has Chip Kelly worked out, Harbough, Jimbo, Leach, Gundy, Taggart. Are any worth $7-8M a year? Great coaches don’t leave the programs they have built, unless they have embarrassed them.
Fulmer left no coaching tree and no one capable of replacing him. It takes a special talent to run a big program in the best of circumstances.. Finding that person takes a lot of skill and even more luck.
My opinion is Tenn keep Fulmer too long ( and I totally understand why) and the football world changed so quickly that they were behind when the change was made. Then the adm made a bad decision in the hire (at the maturity level Kiffin had) which delayed the stabilization even longer. By that time everyone was hiring best available and Tenn could not keep up. Now getting lucky is their only hope. Money will not work.
Now for my crazy answer out of this....Fire Pruitt at end of the season. LET Fulmer be interim HC and AD with same salary. He could recruit on his personality and probably keep most of the class. Try to hire Cutcliffe for $2M he makes now. Let the program stabilize and go from there. In a year or 2 maybe Tee or somebody already on staff will be ready to take over without a complete restart.
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Simple. We suck at hiring coaches.
 
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#34
#34
a vol n tears said:
Why is the football program gotten in this state?
Were we ever “special” like some believe. Career 70% winners. Occasionally getting enough talent to win championships. I think LSU has done that twice with coaches not that great. Fulmer won 1 NC and it took 2 miracle finishes + playing against a back up QB in the champ game.
In the modern era of SEC, when money is everywhere, and most of the schools are hiring the best available, Fulmer struggled. Was Tenn just too slow to adjust and just got left behind.
Is there a problem / different philosophy in the adm that keeps Tenn from moving forward.
Some say throwing money at a proven coach will work, but I have continually argued you cannot hire a proven winner away from their current job. You only get them bigger raises. Has Chip Kelly worked out, Harbough, Jimbo, Leach, Gundy, Taggart. Are any worth $7-8M a year? Great coaches don’t leave the programs they have built, unless they have embarrassed them.
Fulmer left no coaching tree and no one capable of replacing him. It takes a special talent to run a big program in the best of circumstances.. Finding that person takes a lot of skill and even more luck.
My opinion is Tenn keep Fulmer too long ( and I totally understand why) and the football world changed so quickly that they were behind when the change was made. Then the adm made a bad decision in the hire (at the maturity level Kiffin had) which delayed the stabilization even longer. By that time everyone was hiring best available and Tenn could not keep up. Now getting lucky is their only hope. Money will not work.
Now for my crazy answer out of this....Fire Pruitt at end of the season. LET Fulmer be interim HC and AD with same salary. He could recruit on his personality and probably keep most of the class. Try to hire Cutcliffe for $2M he makes now. Let the program stabilize and go from there. In a year or 2 maybe Tee or somebody already on staff will be ready to take over without a complete restart.
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No.
 
#36
#36
a vol n tears said:
Why is the football program gotten in this state?
Were we ever “special” like some believe. Career 70% winners. Occasionally getting enough talent to win championships. I think LSU has done that twice with coaches not that great. Fulmer won 1 NC and it took 2 miracle finishes + playing against a back up QB in the champ game.
In the modern era of SEC, when money is everywhere, and most of the schools are hiring the best available, Fulmer struggled. Was Tenn just too slow to adjust and just got left behind.
Is there a problem / different philosophy in the adm that keeps Tenn from moving forward.
Some say throwing money at a proven coach will work, but I have continually argued you cannot hire a proven winner away from their current job. You only get them bigger raises. Has Chip Kelly worked out, Harbough, Jimbo, Leach, Gundy, Taggart. Are any worth $7-8M a year? Great coaches don’t leave the programs they have built, unless they have embarrassed them.
Fulmer left no coaching tree and no one capable of replacing him. It takes a special talent to run a big program in the best of circumstances.. Finding that person takes a lot of skill and even more luck.
My opinion is Tenn keep Fulmer too long ( and I totally understand why) and the football world changed so quickly that they were behind when the change was made. Then the adm made a bad decision in the hire (at the maturity level Kiffin had) which delayed the stabilization even longer. By that time everyone was hiring best available and Tenn could not keep up. Now getting lucky is their only hope. Money will not work.
Now for my crazy answer out of this....Fire Pruitt at end of the season. LET Fulmer be interim HC and AD with same salary. He could recruit on his personality and probably keep most of the class. Try to hire Cutcliffe for $2M he makes now. Let the program stabilize and go from there. In a year or 2 maybe Tee or somebody already on staff will be ready to take over without a complete restart.
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So you find the solution in firing Pruitt, giving that job to the guy who hired Pruitt, and last coached (and recruited) 12 years ago?
 
#38
#38
SLODAWG said:
So you find the solution in firing Pruitt, giving that job to the guy who hired Pruitt, and last coached (and recruited) 12 years ago?
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Good lost. The game had passed Fulmer by when he was fired before. The game has probably passed Cutliffe by. We need young blood, who have HC success within the last five years.
 
#39
#39
JohnWardForever said:
Just Hire Hugh Freeze! Problem solved. The Man can coach football! These days you MUST have an offensive guru; Freeze is that in Spades. Was a Blocked FG from beating a Power 5 school (That is playing good ball) with Little Ole Liberty!
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I'm all for it.
 
#40
#40
SLODAWG said:
So you find the solution in firing Pruitt, giving that job to the guy who hired Pruitt, and last coached (and recruited) 12 years ago?
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I thought Fulmer needed fired, but Tenn is not financially going to spend $20-$30M on a buyout and new hire. At least get rid of 1 of the problems With Pruitt gone. In an other year or 2 you take care of another. Cut can mentally coach QBs. People like Phil. Take care of issues one at a time. Can it be worse than 5 double digit loses in a row???? Losing to Fl, Ga, and Ala by 20+ every year?????
 
#41
#41
a vol n tears said:
Why is the football program gotten in this state?
Were we ever “special” like some believe. Career 70% winners. Occasionally getting enough talent to win championships. I think LSU has done that twice with coaches not that great. Fulmer won 1 NC and it took 2 miracle finishes + playing against a back up QB in the champ game.
In the modern era of SEC, when money is everywhere, and most of the schools are hiring the best available, Fulmer struggled. Was Tenn just too slow to adjust and just got left behind.
Is there a problem / different philosophy in the adm that keeps Tenn from moving forward.
Some say throwing money at a proven coach will work, but I have continually argued you cannot hire a proven winner away from their current job. You only get them bigger raises. Has Chip Kelly worked out, Harbough, Jimbo, Leach, Gundy, Taggart. Are any worth $7-8M a year? Great coaches don’t leave the programs they have built, unless they have embarrassed them.
Fulmer left no coaching tree and no one capable of replacing him. It takes a special talent to run a big program in the best of circumstances.. Finding that person takes a lot of skill and even more luck.
My opinion is Tenn keep Fulmer too long ( and I totally understand why) and the football world changed so quickly that they were behind when the change was made. Then the adm made a bad decision in the hire (at the maturity level Kiffin had) which delayed the stabilization even longer. By that time everyone was hiring best available and Tenn could not keep up. Now getting lucky is their only hope. Money will not work.
Now for my crazy answer out of this....Fire Pruitt at end of the season. LET Fulmer be interim HC and AD with same salary. He could recruit on his personality and probably keep most of the class. Try to hire Cutcliffe for $2M he makes now. Let the program stabilize and go from there. In a year or 2 maybe Tee or somebody already on staff will be ready to take over without a complete restart.
Click to expand...

We're here because of bad leadership. Most of it beyond the football coach. Dickey was a great athletic director so long as he had Joe Johnson to help soothe over the academic side since Dickey's bedside manor, or lack thereof, didn't involve building a big tent to use political terms. Exit Dickey and Joe Johnson and suddenly there is a leadership vacuum in both the President's office and the AD. No one on either side was strong enough to guide their own office much less control Jimmy Cheek and his minions. Add to that a couple of governors who understood nothing about running a successful state university or appointing the right Board members to do so and suddenly ignorance is running amok in Knoxville.

Had Dickey been building alliances across the aisles of academia and also grooming someone competent to follow him in the AD; then the other issues could have probably been overcome. Had Johnson been replaced with an honest informed and motivated President, then he/she could have controlled Cheek and seen Hamilton for what he was and replaced him immediately to limit the damage. Had we had the right governor during the vacuum to understand the potential fallout and head it off at the pass, it could have been different. Had the prominent booster family not been in succession planning mode and business damage control, then they probably would have helped rather than hindered. Just a confluence of cluster !@#!#^$@^!@%$&@%^$*&^%#&@$%^@!$%#@$%&$@#%^

Now, there are multiple other contributing issues. Fulmer lost both Cutcliffe and Stucky, who were his two closest advisors that were willing to still break a boot off in his butt. After that he migrated toward a comfort zone of delegation and relationships building. I don't think he got complacent so to speak, but rather too disconnected from ground level. He was unwilling to surround himself with strong people. He wanted folks he could control and direct and he made some bad choices. Etc, etc, etc...

I think we probably have our best combination of leaders since Dickey/Johnson as things sit today. But we're working to overcome 20 years of bad leadership and all the resulting fallout. The booster situation still isn't fixed even though it's probably better. I'm not sure Fulmer is one who can fix that. I believe at this point we need Fulmer to realize that the next step is going to require someone who had part in the transition between he and Majors and between he and Kiffin. We need someone with a national presence and the gravitas to pull everyone together. I'd like to see coach facilitate Charles Davis to replace him, allowing for an honorable transition to retirement and an advisory capacity. Charles would then have the opportunity to work with all the powers that be to facilitate Pruitt's replacement. Get the right butts in the right seats at the head of the table and suddenly the decision making will start improving and support will begin coalescing around the program.
 
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#42
#42
vol9799 said:
We're here because of bad leadership. Most of it beyond the football coach. Dickey was a great athletic director so long as he had Joe Johnson to help soothe over the academic side since Dickey's bedside manor, or lack thereof, didn't involve building a big tent to use political terms. Exit Dickey and Joe Johnson and suddenly there is a leadership vacuum in both the President's office and the AD. No one on either side was strong enough to guide their own office much less control Jimmy Cheek and his minions. Add to that a couple of governors who understood nothing about running a successful state university or appointing the right Board members to do so and suddenly ignorance is running amok in Knoxville.

Had Dickey been building alliances across the aisles of academia and also grooming someone competent to follow him in the AD; then the other issues could have probably been overcome. Had Johnson been replaced with an honest informed and motivated President, then he/she could have controlled Cheek and seen Hamilton for what he was and replaced him immediately to limit the damage. Had we had the right governor during the vacuum to understand the potential fallout and head it off at the pass, it could have been different. Had the prominent booster family not been in succession planning mode and business damage control, then they probably would have helped rather than hindered. Just a confluence of cluster !@#!#^$@^!@%$&@%^$*&^%#&@$%^@!$%#@$%&$@#%^

Now, there are multiple other contributing issues. Fulmer lost both Cutcliffe and Stucky, who were his two closest advisors that were willing to still break a boot off in his butt. After that he migrated toward a comfort zone of delegation and relationships building. I don't think he got complacent so to speak, but rather too disconnected from ground level. He was unwilling to surround himself with strong people. He wanted folks he could control and direct and he made some bad choices. Etc, etc, etc...

I think we probably have our best combination of leaders since Dickey/Johnson as things sit today. But we're working to overcome 20 years of bad leadership and all the resulting fallout. The booster situation still isn't fixed even though it's probably better. I'm not sure Fulmer is one who can fix that. I believe at this point we need Fulmer to realize that the next step is going to require someone who had part in the transition between he and Majors and between he and Kiffin. We need someone with a national presence and the gravitas to pull everyone together. I'd like to see coach facilitate Charles Davis to replace him, allowing for an honorable transition to retirement and an advisory capacity. Charles would then have the opportunity to work with all the powers that be to facilitate Pruitt's replacement. Get the right butts in the right seats at the head of the table and suddenly the decision making will start improving and support will begin coalescing around the program.
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Thanks for a behind the scenes look at areas I don’t understand. I agree it has more to do with “management” than “workers“. It is a big business Organization
 
#43
#43
MurphyVol said:
I'm not trying to be a Fulmer apologist, but I felt like the latter part of Dickey and Hamilton were too cheap to hire good assistants. Don't hold me to this because it's totally from memory, but it seems like when I remember seeing the first coordinator cross the $1mil mark we still had Randy Sanders and we were paying him $175k (which was still too much).

I felt like as the 2000s went own, we were getting behind because all we could afford were duds like Pat Washington, etc.

I initially supported the Fulmer as AD hire because of these reasons. I told a good friend of mine that I felt like Phil would remember his situation and would open the checkbook for JP to hire anyone he wanted. It does seem like Phil has done this but JP has either made bad hires or is just a terrible coach (likely both).

Anyway, things really unraveled with the Kiffin hire. Him leaving so close to signing day left us with few choices since a coach of any integrity wouldn't leave a school hanging like that. So, settling on Dooley further compounded the problem and made us an even less desirable job.
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The fact that they allowed Mike Hamilton to make another hire tells you how much the university cares about athletics. Think about how he got rid of Fulmer, handled the Kiffin hire, pissed off Gary Patterson in the process, then gets to hire Dooley on top of that? Where in the F is the oversight to allow all that to go down?
 
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