Whoa National Guard Troops going to Memphis

#51
#51
LouderVol said:
the national guard running search and rescue or logistics is miles different from them acting as a policing force for a major metropolitan area not in an emergency situation.
Click to expand...
I cannot find evidence they are acting as police force anywhere they are deployed domestically.
If local LEOs ask for NG help, they are allowed to assist.
 
#52
#52
Rickyvol77 said:
Racist? I stated pure fact...ask anyone who's worked law enforcement and they will most assuredly tell you the same thing. I didn't say ALL blacks commit crime, that's silly. But in terms of big city violent crime especially, 80-90% is related to gang violence and 65-70% are committed by African Americans. In fact it's so much so that if you removed all african american criminals altogether, murders, robberies and all gun violence in the US would be reduced to the likes of Norway and Iceland statistic wise.

And you might want to check the latest demographics for metro Nashville as well.
Click to expand...

Did I mention how much I enjoy using Grok...

"If you removed all african american criminals altogether, murders, robberies and all gun violence in the US would be reduced to the likes of Norway and Iceland statistic wise?"

The claim you're referring to is a common one in online discussions, but it doesn't hold up based on available crime data. I'll break it down factually using the most recent reliable statistics from sources like the FBI, CDC, and international comparisons, focusing on murders/homicides (which overlap heavily with gun violence) and robberies. Note that "gun violence" isn't a standalone FBI category but is often proxied by firearm homicides, which account for about 75-80% of U.S. murders.

### Key U.S. Data on Offenders by Race
- **Homicides/Murders**: In 2019 (the last year with detailed FBI offender race breakdowns in the results), Black/African American offenders accounted for about 55.9% of known homicide offenders, despite being ~13% of the population. More recent discussions (e.g., based on 2022 FBI data) suggest this proportion remains around 50-60%. Whites (including many Hispanics in FBI classifications) accounted for ~41.1%.
- **Robberies**: Black offenders are overrepresented, with arrest rates ~8.1 times higher per capita than the overall population average. In 2008 data (a proxy for trends, as recent proportions aren't fully broken out), Black youths accounted for 67% of juvenile robbery arrests. Overall, Black arrests for robbery are disproportionately high relative to population share.
- **Gun Violence (Firearm Homicides)**: Patterns mirror homicides, with Black victims and offenders disproportionately affected. In 2021, Black males had a firearm homicide victimization rate of 52.9 per 100,000, far higher than other groups. About 82% of Black gun deaths are homicides (vs. 19% for whites). Offender data aligns with homicide trends.

These disparities are well-documented and often linked in research to socioeconomic factors like poverty, urban density, and inequality rather than race alone.

### Hypothetical Calculation: Removing Black Offenders' Crimes
The claim implies a hypothetical where crimes committed by Black offenders are eliminated (i.e., "removing all African American criminals"). This wouldn't remove the entire Black population (~13% or 43 million people)—only offenders—but the number of such offenders is small relative to the total U.S. population (~333 million), so it has minimal impact on per capita rates. (For context, annual homicide offenders number in the low thousands; even including all Black incarcerated individuals (~500,000) reduces population by <0.2%.)

Using 2022 data (latest reliable year):
- **U.S. Homicide Rate**: ~6.3 per 100,000. (2023 preliminary data suggests ~7.1, but we'll use 6.3 for conservatism.)
- If Black offenders account for 55% of homicides, remaining crimes = 45%.
- New rate: ~2.8 per 100,000 (0.45 × 6.3).
- If 60%, new rate: ~2.5 per 100,000.
- **U.S. Robbery Rate**: Part of overall violent crime (~381 per 100,000 in 2022). Robberies specifically were ~66 per 100,000 in recent years (pre-2022 peak).
- Assuming ~60-67% by Black offenders (based on trends), remaining crimes = 33-40%.
- New rate: ~22-26 per 100,000 (rough estimate; exact proportions vary by year).
- **Gun Violence (Firearm Homicides)**: Similar to homicides, as ~75% of murders involve guns. New rate: ~2-2.5 per 100,000.

### Comparison to Norway and Iceland
- **Norway Homicide Rate**: ~0.7 per 100,000 in 2023 (38 murders in a population of ~5.5 million).
- **Iceland Homicide Rate**: Typically 0.3-1.4 per 100,000 (fluctuates due to small population; e.g., 0.3 in 2019, 1.4 in 2020). Robbery and gun violence rates are negligible (often single-digit incidents annually).

The hypothetical U.S. rates (~2.5-2.8 for homicides/gun violence, ~22-26 for robberies) would be 3-4 times higher than Norway's or Iceland's, not equivalent. They might approach rates in higher-crime European countries (e.g., UK ~1.2, France ~1.3), but not the ultra-low Nordic outliers mentioned.

### Why the Claim Overstates the Impact
- Disparities exist, but removing Black-offender crimes doesn't drop U.S. rates to Nordic levels because remaining (mostly white + Hispanic + other) crimes still yield higher per capita figures than in low-crime societies.
- U.S. white homicide rates (excluding Hispanics) are estimated at ~2-3 per 100,000 in some analyses—still above Norway/Iceland.
- Broader factors like gun access, urban poverty, and policing contribute to overall U.S. rates, independent of race.
- No direct fact-checks in the results debunk this exact phrasing, but related claims (e.g., "Blacks commit most murders") are often exaggerated or lack context.
 
#53
#53
Rickyvol77 said:
And you might want to check the latest demographics for metro Nashville as well.
Click to expand...

Done. Again, you're wrong.

Per my prior question, how about Nashville (#18 most violent in the U.S.)? You good with the National Guard invading it, or is it "different" since its population is not mostly black?

### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Nashville

The Nashville metropolitan area, officially known as the Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), encompasses 14 counties in Tennessee: Cannon, Cheatham, Davidson, Dickson, Hickman, Macon, Maury, Robertson, Rutherford, Smith, Sumner, Trousdale, Williamson, and Wilson. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2023, the total population of the MSA is approximately 2,102,573. This represents a growth of about 31,554 people (or 1.5%) from 2022, driven by migration and natural increase.

Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns for the MSA are primarily available from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2022 5-year estimates (covering 2018–2022 data, released in late 2023), as full 2023 ACS data is not yet published. However, preliminary 2023 population estimates by race from the Census Bureau provide some updates, such as the White (non-Hispanic) population reaching 1,463,208 after adding 16,858 people from 2022. The table below summarizes the most recent available demographics, based on ACS 2022 data adjusted for known 2023 trends where possible. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories.

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2023 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 69.5% | 1,463,208 | Largest growth in White population nationally in 2023 (+16,858). ACS 2022 base: ~68.9%; adjusted for 2023 estimate. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 14.1% | ~296,663 | Stable share; concentrated in Davidson County. ACS 2022. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 7.9% | ~166,103 | Includes all races; growth driven by migration from Mexico and Central America. ACS 2022. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 2.5% | ~52,564 | Increasing due to tech and healthcare sectors. ACS 2022. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 3.0% | ~63,077 | Includes multiracial; rose post-2020 Census changes. ACS 2022. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 2.0% | ~42,051 | Small but growing. ACS 2022. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.2% | ~4,205 | ACS 2022. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~2,103 | ACS 2022. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA remains predominantly White (non-Hispanic), but diversity is increasing, with Hispanic and Asian populations growing fastest due to economic opportunities in music, healthcare, and tech. The Black population share has been relatively stable but represents a significant urban presence in Nashville proper.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2022 5-year estimates for the MSA (via data.census.gov and aggregated reports). The 2023 White population figure comes directly from Census Vintage 2023 estimates released in June 2024. Full 2023 racial breakdowns will be available in the 2023 ACS 1-year estimates (expected late 2024) or 5-year estimates (2025). Other sources like Data USA confirm similar proportions (e.g., 69% White non-Hispanic, 14.1% Black non-Hispanic, 9.73% Hispanic including multiracial).
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2023: ~58% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 19% Hispanic), Nashville MSA is less diverse but growing faster in minority populations than the national average.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov.
 
#54
#54
Rickyvol77 said:
Literally none of these cities are "red" cities...

They all have decades of Dem leadership and large populations of blacks...which of course is the perfect recipe for gang violence
Click to expand...

Don't let facts get in the way of racism...

Little Rock, Cleveland, Kansas City.

Each city has 3x to 3.5x the number of white people versus black people.


### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Little Rock, Arkansas

The Little Rock metropolitan area, officially the Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), includes six counties: Faulkner, Grant, Hot Spring, Lonoke, Pulaski, and Saline. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2023 (released in 2024), the total population of the MSA is approximately 771,000. This reflects a growth of about 23,000 people (or roughly 3%) from 2020, driven primarily by net in-migration (+20,352) and natural increase (+2,289). Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns are primarily from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2022 5-year estimates (covering 2018–2022 data, released in late 2023), as full 2023 ACS data is not yet available. Preliminary 2023 trends suggest continued stability in proportions, with slight growth in multiracial and Hispanic populations. The table below summarizes the most recent available demographics, based on ACS 2022 data. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories.

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2023 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 66.5% | ~513,115 | Largest group; stable but slight decline in share due to overall diversification. ACS 2022. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 22.8% | ~175,788 | Concentrated in Pulaski County (urban core); stable share. ACS 2022. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 7.2% | ~55,512 | Growing due to migration; includes all races. ACS 2022. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 1.8% | ~13,878 | Increasing with economic opportunities in healthcare and logistics. ACS 2022. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 1.5% | ~11,565 | Rose significantly post-2020 Census changes; multiracial identification up ~244% in city proper from 2010. ACS 2022. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 0.5% | ~3,855 | Small category. ACS 2022. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.4% | ~3,084 | ACS 2022. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~771 | ACS 2022. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA is predominantly White (non-Hispanic), but it has a notably higher Black population share than the national average (13.6%), reflecting historical patterns in the urban core (e.g., Little Rock city is ~42% Black). Diversity is increasing modestly, with Hispanic and multiracial groups growing fastest, driven by in-migration to Central Arkansas. The metro's growth outpaces many U.S. regions, with Pulaski County (home to ~60% of the MSA population) adding the most residents.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2022 5-year estimates for the MSA (aggregated from data.census.gov and reports like Metroplan's 2024 Demographic Review). The 2023 population total comes from Census Vintage 2023 estimates and Metroplan projections (as of January 1, 2024). Full 2023 racial breakdowns will be available in the 2023 ACS 1-year estimates (expected late 2024) or 5-year estimates (2025). Other sources like Census Reporter (ACS 2023 1-year preliminary) confirm similar proportions for the metro (e.g., ~66% White non-Hispanic, 23% Black non-Hispanic, 7% Hispanic).
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2023: ~58% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 19% Hispanic), the Little Rock MSA is less Hispanic but more Black-dominant, aligning with Southern metro trends.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov or Metroplan's reports.




### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Cleveland, Ohio

The Cleveland metropolitan area, officially the Cleveland-Elyria, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), includes five counties: Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain, and Medina. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2023 (released in 2024), the total population of the MSA is approximately 2,059,254. This reflects a slight decline of about 0.4% from 2022 (2,068,000), continuing a long-term trend of modest population loss due to out-migration, partially offset by natural increase. Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns are primarily from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2022 5-year estimates (covering 2018–2022 data, released in late 2023), as full 2023 ACS data is not yet available. Preliminary trends from ACS 2023 1-year estimates indicate stable proportions, with minor growth in Hispanic and multiracial categories. The table below summarizes the most recent available demographics, based on ACS 2022 data adjusted for 2023 population totals. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories. (Note: Non-Hispanic categories exclude those identifying as Hispanic/Latino; Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity that can overlap with any race.)

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2023 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 67.5% | ~1,390,000 | Predominant group; stable share with suburban concentration. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 20.5% | ~422,000 | Significant urban presence in Cuyahoga County; stable. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 7.5% | ~154,000 | Growing due to migration; includes all races. ACS 2022 5-year; up from 6.5% in 2020. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 2.2% | ~45,000 | Increasing with professional sectors (e.g., healthcare). ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 2.0% | ~41,000 | Rising post-2020 Census changes. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 0.5% | ~10,000 | Small category. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.2% | ~4,000 | ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~2,000 | ACS 2022 5-year. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA is majority White (non-Hispanic), but it has a higher Black population share than the national average (13.6%), largely concentrated in the urban core (e.g., Cleveland city is ~48% Black). Diversity is increasing slowly, with Hispanic (primarily Puerto Rican and Mexican) and Asian groups growing due to immigration and economic opportunities in manufacturing, healthcare, and education. The metro's population decline is most pronounced in Cuyahoga County, while suburbs like Medina see gains.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2022 5-year estimates for the MSA (aggregated from data.census.gov and reports like Census Reporter). The 2023 population total comes from Census Vintage 2023 estimates (June 2024 release). ACS 2023 1-year estimates (expected full release late 2024) show similar proportions (e.g., ~67% White non-Hispanic, 20% Black non-Hispanic, 8% Hispanic). Earlier data (e.g., 2020 Census: 68.5% White non-Hispanic, 19.8% Black non-Hispanic, 7.0% Hispanic) aligns closely, indicating stability. For county-level details, Cuyahoga County (core) is ~50% White non-Hispanic and 30% Black non-Hispanic.
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2023: ~58% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 19% Hispanic), the Cleveland MSA is more White and Black-dominant but less Hispanic, typical of Rust Belt metros.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov or Census Reporter.




### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Kansas City

The Kansas City metropolitan area, officially the Kansas City, MO-KS Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), includes 14 counties across Missouri and Kansas: Cass, Clay, Clinton, Jackson, Lafayette, Platte, and Ray in Missouri; and Johnson, Leavenworth, Linn, Miami, and Wyandotte in Kansas. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2024 (released in 2025), the total population of the MSA is approximately 2,243,685. This reflects a growth of about 23,820 people (or 1.1%) from 2023, driven by net in-migration and natural increase. Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns are primarily from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2023 1-year estimates (covering 2023 data, released in late 2024), with some adjustments from the 2019-2023 ACS 5-year estimates for stability. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories. (Note: Non-Hispanic categories exclude those identifying as Hispanic/Latino; Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity that can overlap with any race.)

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2024 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 64.5% | ~1,448,000 | Predominant group; stable share with suburban growth in Johnson and Platte counties. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 18.2% | ~408,000 | Concentrated in urban core (Jackson County); stable. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 11.8% | ~265,000 | Growing due to migration; includes all races, primarily Mexican origin. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 2.6% | ~58,000 | Increasing with tech and healthcare sectors. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 2.5% | ~56,000 | Rising post-2020 Census changes in multiracial reporting. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 0.4% | ~9,000 | Small category. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.3% | ~7,000 | ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~2,000 | ACS 2023 1-year. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA is majority White (non-Hispanic), but diversity is increasing, with Hispanic and Asian populations growing fastest due to economic opportunities in logistics, manufacturing, and professional services. The Black population share remains significant, reflecting historical urban patterns (e.g., Kansas City, MO city is ~26% Black). Growth is concentrated in suburbs like Johnson County, KS, while the urban core sees more stability.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2023 1-year estimates for the MSA (via data.census.gov and Census Reporter). The 2024 population total comes from Census Vintage 2024 estimates (March 2025 release). The 2019-2023 ACS 5-year estimates show similar proportions (e.g., ~65% White non-Hispanic, 18% Black non-Hispanic, 12% Hispanic), indicating consistency. Full 2024 ACS data will be available in late 2025. For county-level details, Jackson County (core) is ~50% White non-Hispanic and 25% Black non-Hispanic.
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2024: ~57% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 20% Hispanic), the Kansas City MSA is more White and Black-dominant but less Hispanic, aligning with Midwestern metro trends.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov or Census Reporter.
 
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#59
#59
CagleMtnVol said:
They won't be they will be providing extra security. They may hold someone until local or federal officers arrive but they won't be arresting people.

Isn’t the National Guard regularly deployed to events like the Super Bowl or when the US holds the Olympics or possibly even World Cup matches as extra security?
Click to expand...
I have no idea how they are deployed, but that is a specific institution getting specific protection of a specific event, and dealing with a set crowd, where the main goal is for them to do nothing.

that is far far different than securing a whole city where they are expected to aid in the combatting of active crimes.
 
#60
#60
McDad said:
I cannot find evidence they are acting as police force anywhere they are deployed domestically.
If local LEOs ask for NG help, they are allowed to assist.
Click to expand...
maybe its a semantics thing, but how is that different? the videos out of LA made it clear the NG out there could work on their own, outside of the direction or supervision of the local PD.

what's the plan, every Memphis beat cop gets three national guard to ride around in their squad car they get to deploy as they see fit? because I pretty dang sure how its played out is the NG are deployed on their own.

Are the national guard going to be patrolling and just run around "detaining" people they suspect of crimes and wait for the cops to come around to arrest them? are they expected to know what crime looks like, are they expected to know the proper level of force to be used? are they going to know how to safely operate around citizens?

Are the national guard held to the same standards as the cops, are they wearing body cams? do they identifiable with the equivalent of a badge number? Will the NG be showing up in court to testify about the "detainment" they made? are the NG going to be held liable in civilian courts, or is any dispute being a citizen and the NG going in front of a military tribunal?

and I still don't get why the first step in any of these cities is deploying the national guard by the federal government?

first step would be making sure the locals are actually doing their jobs.
then mobilizing more state assets.
then mobilizing federal policing forces.
then the state mobilizing their national guard, if they are an actual help.
the last step should be the feds doing something, and that is the first response.
if policing help is needed and the NG are the only source available, I call bs on that assumption, why not just deploy their MP?
 
#62
#62
LouderVol said:
maybe its a semantics thing, but how is that different? the videos out of LA made it clear the NG out there could work on their own, outside of the direction or supervision of the local PD.

what's the plan, every Memphis beat cop gets three national guard to ride around in their squad car they get to deploy as they see fit? because I pretty dang sure how its played out is the NG are deployed on their own.

Are the national guard going to be patrolling and just run around "detaining" people they suspect of crimes and wait for the cops to come around to arrest them? are they expected to know what crime looks like, are they expected to know the proper level of force to be used? are they going to know how to safely operate around citizens?

Are the national guard held to the same standards as the cops, are they wearing body cams? do they identifiable with the equivalent of a badge number? Will the NG be showing up in court to testify about the "detainment" they made? are the NG going to be held liable in civilian courts, or is any dispute being a citizen and the NG going in front of a military tribunal?

and I still don't get why the first step in any of these cities is deploying the national guard by the federal government?

first step would be making sure the locals are actually doing their jobs.
then mobilizing more state assets.
then mobilizing federal policing forces.
then the state mobilizing their national guard, if they are an actual help.
the last step should be the feds doing something, and that is the first response.
if policing help is needed and the NG are the only source available, I call bs on that assumption, why not just deploy their MP?
Click to expand...
That's way too much to sift through and discuss on a message board.

Which one of your thoughts would you like to explore more?
 
#63
#63
McDad said:
That's way too much to sift through and discuss on a message board.

Which one of your thoughts would you like to explore more?
Click to expand...
I am fine going point by point.

but some clarity on what the NG actually will do would go a long way. The Rs pretend like the NG are just going to sit in an office and fill out paperwork so that the real police can do their jobs; the Ds pretend like the NG is going to do house by house searches. both are clearly wrong, and both sides are making positive assumptions, admittedly I am doing the same, but based on the context I have been able to find.
 
#65
#65
LouderVol said:
I am fine going point by point.

but some clarity on what the NG actually will do would go a long way. The Rs pretend like the NG are just going to sit in an office and fill out paperwork so that the real police can do their jobs; the Ds pretend like the NG is going to do house by house searches. both are clearly wrong, and both sides are making positive assumptions, admittedly I am doing the same, but based on the context I have been able to find.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't trust what the politicans said the NG would be doing anyway.

So far, where deployed all they appear to be doing is showing a presence of force. They are essentially a visual deterrent. They may have done more in LA. I honestly do not remember.
 
#66
#66
MontyPython said:
Those cheerleading Trump's dictator-wannabe antics here... should the next Dem administration do the same to "red" cities?

Little Rock, Birmingham, Cleveland and KC, looking at you...

And, oh by the way, what happens to the crime rate in cities like LA, DC and Memphis when the NG leaves? Mhmmm. Or... perhaps you actually want more of your FEDERAL TAXES to fund law enforcement in these blue cities forever?

Mhhhmmm. That's what I thought.

Lastly, how is this not an admission of FAILURE by Blackburn and other Tennessee politicians? Their administrations have failed to quell violence in TN, and now they have to have the federal government step in to do their jobs. Pathetic.

Using the military for domestic law enforcement is illegal barring insurrection. Only a douchenozzle like Donald would try to normalize it.



### Top US Cities with the Highest Crime Rates per 100,000 Residents (Based on 2024-2025 Data)

Crime rates can vary by source (e.g., FBI Uniform Crime Reports, local police data) and whether they focus on violent crime (homicide, assault, robbery, rape) or total crime (including property crimes like burglary and theft). The lists below draw from recent 2024-2025 analyses, as full 2025 data is preliminary. Rates are normalized per 100,000 residents. Note that smaller cities often have higher per capita rates due to concentrated incidents, while larger cities may have more total crimes but lower rates.

#### Top 10 Cities by Total Crime Rate (Violent + Property Crimes)
These rankings emphasize overall crime incidence, primarily from FBI data and analyses like Security.org and SafeHome.org for 2024, with trends holding into 2025.

| Rank | City, State | Total Crime Rate per 100,000 | Key Notes |
|------|-------------|------------------------------|-----------|
| 1 | Memphis, TN | 9,764 | Highest overall; driven by violent crime (2,437 per 100,000) and property theft. |
| 2 | Little Rock, AR | 8,250 | Aggravated assault dominates at 1,825 per 100,000. |
| 3 | Detroit, MI | 6,600 | Property crimes elevated, but violent rate down 50% since 2023 lows. |
| 4 | Birmingham, AL | 6,120 | Murder rate at 50.6; total includes high property burglary. |
| 5 | Kansas City, MO | 5,547 | 1,547 violent crimes; nonfatal shootings up 12% in 2024. |
| 6 | St. Louis, MO | 5,400 | High violent component (2,345 per 100,000 total). |
| 7 | New Orleans, LA | 5,200 | Gun violence and drug offenses push rates; tourism areas affected. |
| 8 | Baltimore, MD | 5,100 | Highest murder rate among large cities at ~40 per 100,000. |
| 9 | Oakland, CA | 4,900 | Violent rate at 1,789; gang-related incidents prominent. |
| 10 | Cleveland, OH | 4,700 | Homicide rate ~40; property crimes like vehicle theft rising. |

#### Top 10 Cities by Violent Crime Rate
Violent crime is often the most concerning metric. Data from sources like the Council on Criminal Justice, FBI, and Freedom for All Americans (2024-2025 mid-year).

| Rank | City, State | Violent Crime Rate per 100,000 | Key Notes |
|------|-------------|--------------------------------|-----------|
| 1 | St. Louis, MO | 2,345 | Homicide rate 69.4; highest in US for cities >100,000 residents. |
| 2 | Memphis, TN | 2,437 | Gang violence and aggravated assault lead; 100+ homicides early 2024. |
| 3 | Detroit, MI | 2,050 | Down from peaks, but still elevated; fewest homicides in 50+ years in 2025. |
| 4 | Birmingham, AL | 1,746 | Homicide rate ~59; second-highest nationally. |
| 5 | Baltimore, MD | 1,600 | Murder rate 40.9; violent crimes down but still top-tier. |
| 6 | Little Rock, AR | 1,825 | Assault-heavy; economic factors contribute. |
| 7 | Kansas City, MO | 1,547 | 144 homicides in 2024; shootings increased. |
| 8 | Cleveland, OH | 1,557 | Homicide rate ~40; urban decay linked. |
| 9 | Oakland, CA | 1,442 | Gang and drug-related; proximity to ports exacerbates. |
| 10 | Philadelphia, PA | 1,021 | Murder rate 22.5; gun violence in concentrated areas. |

#### Additional Insights
- **Trends**: Overall US violent crime fell to 359 per 100,000 in 2024 (lowest in 20 years), with homicides down 15-33% in many cities from 2023 peaks. Property crimes rose 7% nationally, driven by vehicle thefts.
- **Caveats**: Rankings exclude very small cities (<100,000 residents) like Jackson, MS (homicide rate ~78) or Anniston, AL (3,434 violent per 100,000), as the query focuses on notable US cities. Data varies by reporting; FBI notes against simplistic rankings due to underreporting or methodology differences.
- **Sources**: Compiled from FBI UCR 2024 data, Council on Criminal Justice mid-2025 update, Security.org, SafeHome.org, and Axios analysis. For latest local stats, check city police portals.
Click to expand...

TN Gov. Bill Lee invited the federal & state cooperative plan into the state, and was there to sign the order.

Can you point to the 'dictator' part of the equation - ?
 
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#67
#67
NCFisher said:
TN Gov. Bill Lee invited the federal & state cooperative plan into the state, and was there to sign the order.

Can you point to the 'dictator' part of the equation - ?
Click to expand...

Yes he did, and I 100% believe that he is trying to gain favor with Trump. Probably wants to run for senate or some other seat.

I don't think there's any other reason for NG presence given the timing.
 
#68
#68
They should have plenty of work to do, and the city won't have to pay residents and businesses to remove the litter, since the feds will be footing the bill for the deployment.
www.fox13memphis.com

New city initiative removing litter from Memphis streets

Under the initiative, the city pays local groups and small businesses to remove litter from assigned areas. Each hired group works in the city council district they are based in.
www.fox13memphis.com www.fox13memphis.com
 
#69
#69
NCFisher said:
TN Gov. Bill Lee invited the federal & state cooperative plan into the state, and was there to sign the order.

Can you point to the 'dictator' part of the equation - ?
Click to expand...

Glad you asked! 😊

Memphis Mayor Paul Young did not approve of the federal National Guard deployment, and publicly stated that the move was not his decision and that he does not support it. President Trump announced the deployment on September 12, 2025, and claimed that Young was "happy" about it, which the mayor has disputed.

Key points on the mayor's position:
  • Opposed but will cooperate: While Young does not support the National Guard deployment, he has committed to working with federal authorities to ensure their engagement "truly benefits and strengthens" the community. He called President Trump's claim that he was "happy" about the news an "overstatement".
  • Prefers other resources: Young stated that his focus was on obtaining other federal resources, such as FBI and ATF officers, to help address crime in Memphis. He noted that the National Guard is "not something that I think is a part of what will reduce crime in our city".
  • Was not informed beforehand: The mayor learned that the deployment was confirmed through President Trump's television interview. He stated that although his office had been in discussion with Tennessee Governor Bill Lee's office, he had not received official confirmation.
  • Concerns about optics: Mayor Young drew a comparison to the National Guard's 1968 deployment in Memphis after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. and stated, "We don't want to invoke those same images here".
The authority to deploy the National Guard at the federal level lies with the president and the governor, not the mayor. The deployment was requested by Tennessee Governor Bill Lee.

So, yes, the NG deployment is being forced upon the leader and people of Memphis without their approval.

And Quid Pro Quo: Do you support the National Guard invading deploying in Nashville next? It's a top-20 violent city.
 
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#71
#71
BeardedVol said:
They should have plenty of work to do, and the city won't have to pay residents and businesses to remove the litter, since the feds will be footing the bill for the deployment.
www.fox13memphis.com

New city initiative removing litter from Memphis streets

Under the initiative, the city pays local groups and small businesses to remove litter from assigned areas. Each hired group works in the city council district they are based in.
www.fox13memphis.com www.fox13memphis.com
Click to expand...

Heh. If DC is any guidance here, the NG will end up meandering around looking for something to do and, ultimately, end up helping with cleaning up things via "beautification" projects. Crime will pause, then resume as normal once the NG leave for good.

Dog and pony show.
 
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#72
#72
MontyPython said:
Don't let facts get in the way of racism...

Little Rock, Cleveland, Kansas City.

Each city has 3x to 3.5x the number of white people versus black people.


### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Little Rock, Arkansas

The Little Rock metropolitan area, officially the Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), includes six counties: Faulkner, Grant, Hot Spring, Lonoke, Pulaski, and Saline. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2023 (released in 2024), the total population of the MSA is approximately 771,000. This reflects a growth of about 23,000 people (or roughly 3%) from 2020, driven primarily by net in-migration (+20,352) and natural increase (+2,289). Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns are primarily from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2022 5-year estimates (covering 2018–2022 data, released in late 2023), as full 2023 ACS data is not yet available. Preliminary 2023 trends suggest continued stability in proportions, with slight growth in multiracial and Hispanic populations. The table below summarizes the most recent available demographics, based on ACS 2022 data. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories.

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2023 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 66.5% | ~513,115 | Largest group; stable but slight decline in share due to overall diversification. ACS 2022. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 22.8% | ~175,788 | Concentrated in Pulaski County (urban core); stable share. ACS 2022. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 7.2% | ~55,512 | Growing due to migration; includes all races. ACS 2022. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 1.8% | ~13,878 | Increasing with economic opportunities in healthcare and logistics. ACS 2022. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 1.5% | ~11,565 | Rose significantly post-2020 Census changes; multiracial identification up ~244% in city proper from 2010. ACS 2022. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 0.5% | ~3,855 | Small category. ACS 2022. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.4% | ~3,084 | ACS 2022. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~771 | ACS 2022. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA is predominantly White (non-Hispanic), but it has a notably higher Black population share than the national average (13.6%), reflecting historical patterns in the urban core (e.g., Little Rock city is ~42% Black). Diversity is increasing modestly, with Hispanic and multiracial groups growing fastest, driven by in-migration to Central Arkansas. The metro's growth outpaces many U.S. regions, with Pulaski County (home to ~60% of the MSA population) adding the most residents.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2022 5-year estimates for the MSA (aggregated from data.census.gov and reports like Metroplan's 2024 Demographic Review). The 2023 population total comes from Census Vintage 2023 estimates and Metroplan projections (as of January 1, 2024). Full 2023 racial breakdowns will be available in the 2023 ACS 1-year estimates (expected late 2024) or 5-year estimates (2025). Other sources like Census Reporter (ACS 2023 1-year preliminary) confirm similar proportions for the metro (e.g., ~66% White non-Hispanic, 23% Black non-Hispanic, 7% Hispanic).
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2023: ~58% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 19% Hispanic), the Little Rock MSA is less Hispanic but more Black-dominant, aligning with Southern metro trends.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov or Metroplan's reports.




### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Cleveland, Ohio

The Cleveland metropolitan area, officially the Cleveland-Elyria, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), includes five counties: Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain, and Medina. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2023 (released in 2024), the total population of the MSA is approximately 2,059,254. This reflects a slight decline of about 0.4% from 2022 (2,068,000), continuing a long-term trend of modest population loss due to out-migration, partially offset by natural increase. Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns are primarily from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2022 5-year estimates (covering 2018–2022 data, released in late 2023), as full 2023 ACS data is not yet available. Preliminary trends from ACS 2023 1-year estimates indicate stable proportions, with minor growth in Hispanic and multiracial categories. The table below summarizes the most recent available demographics, based on ACS 2022 data adjusted for 2023 population totals. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories. (Note: Non-Hispanic categories exclude those identifying as Hispanic/Latino; Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity that can overlap with any race.)

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2023 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 67.5% | ~1,390,000 | Predominant group; stable share with suburban concentration. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 20.5% | ~422,000 | Significant urban presence in Cuyahoga County; stable. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 7.5% | ~154,000 | Growing due to migration; includes all races. ACS 2022 5-year; up from 6.5% in 2020. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 2.2% | ~45,000 | Increasing with professional sectors (e.g., healthcare). ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 2.0% | ~41,000 | Rising post-2020 Census changes. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 0.5% | ~10,000 | Small category. ACS 2022 5-year. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.2% | ~4,000 | ACS 2022 5-year. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~2,000 | ACS 2022 5-year. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA is majority White (non-Hispanic), but it has a higher Black population share than the national average (13.6%), largely concentrated in the urban core (e.g., Cleveland city is ~48% Black). Diversity is increasing slowly, with Hispanic (primarily Puerto Rican and Mexican) and Asian groups growing due to immigration and economic opportunities in manufacturing, healthcare, and education. The metro's population decline is most pronounced in Cuyahoga County, while suburbs like Medina see gains.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2022 5-year estimates for the MSA (aggregated from data.census.gov and reports like Census Reporter). The 2023 population total comes from Census Vintage 2023 estimates (June 2024 release). ACS 2023 1-year estimates (expected full release late 2024) show similar proportions (e.g., ~67% White non-Hispanic, 20% Black non-Hispanic, 8% Hispanic). Earlier data (e.g., 2020 Census: 68.5% White non-Hispanic, 19.8% Black non-Hispanic, 7.0% Hispanic) aligns closely, indicating stability. For county-level details, Cuyahoga County (core) is ~50% White non-Hispanic and 30% Black non-Hispanic.
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2023: ~58% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 19% Hispanic), the Cleveland MSA is more White and Black-dominant but less Hispanic, typical of Rust Belt metros.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov or Census Reporter.




### Latest Racial Demographics for Metro Kansas City

The Kansas City metropolitan area, officially the Kansas City, MO-KS Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), includes 14 counties across Missouri and Kansas: Cass, Clay, Clinton, Jackson, Lafayette, Platte, and Ray in Missouri; and Johnson, Leavenworth, Linn, Miami, and Wyandotte in Kansas. As of the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates for July 1, 2024 (released in 2025), the total population of the MSA is approximately 2,243,685. This reflects a growth of about 23,820 people (or 1.1%) from 2023, driven by net in-migration and natural increase. Detailed racial and ethnic breakdowns are primarily from the American Community Survey (ACS) 2023 1-year estimates (covering 2023 data, released in late 2024), with some adjustments from the 2019-2023 ACS 5-year estimates for stability. Percentages are of the total population and may not sum to 100% due to rounding and small "other" categories. (Note: Non-Hispanic categories exclude those identifying as Hispanic/Latino; Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity that can overlap with any race.)

| Race/Ethnicity | Percentage of Population | Approximate Number (2024 est.) | Notes/Source |
|---------------------------------|--------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|
| White alone (non-Hispanic) | 64.5% | ~1,448,000 | Predominant group; stable share with suburban growth in Johnson and Platte counties. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Black or African American alone (non-Hispanic) | 18.2% | ~408,000 | Concentrated in urban core (Jackson County); stable. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Hispanic or Latino (any race) | 11.8% | ~265,000 | Growing due to migration; includes all races, primarily Mexican origin. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Asian alone (non-Hispanic) | 2.6% | ~58,000 | Increasing with tech and healthcare sectors. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Two or More Races (non-Hispanic) | 2.5% | ~56,000 | Rising post-2020 Census changes in multiracial reporting. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Other races (e.g., Some Other Race, alone; non-Hispanic) | 0.4% | ~9,000 | Small category. ACS 2023 1-year. |
| American Indian/Alaska Native alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.3% | ~7,000 | ACS 2023 1-year. |
| Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander alone (non-Hispanic) | 0.1% | ~2,000 | ACS 2023 1-year. |

#### Key Insights:
- **Overall Trends**: The MSA is majority White (non-Hispanic), but diversity is increasing, with Hispanic and Asian populations growing fastest due to economic opportunities in logistics, manufacturing, and professional services. The Black population share remains significant, reflecting historical urban patterns (e.g., Kansas City, MO city is ~26% Black). Growth is concentrated in suburbs like Johnson County, KS, while the urban core sees more stability.
- **Data Sources and Limitations**: Percentages are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's ACS 2023 1-year estimates for the MSA (via data.census.gov and Census Reporter). The 2024 population total comes from Census Vintage 2024 estimates (March 2025 release). The 2019-2023 ACS 5-year estimates show similar proportions (e.g., ~65% White non-Hispanic, 18% Black non-Hispanic, 12% Hispanic), indicating consistency. Full 2024 ACS data will be available in late 2025. For county-level details, Jackson County (core) is ~50% White non-Hispanic and 25% Black non-Hispanic.
- **Comparisons**: Compared to the U.S. overall (2024: ~57% White non-Hispanic, 13% Black non-Hispanic, 20% Hispanic), the Kansas City MSA is more White and Black-dominant but less Hispanic, aligning with Midwestern metro trends.

For the most up-to-date or county-level breakdowns, refer to the U.S. Census Bureau's data portal at data.census.gov or Census Reporter.
Click to expand...
Sell that snow to another Eskimo.

Metro and city are two different things. For example, Baltimore metro is 53% white and 29% black. Baltimore city is 27% white and 60% black. From your example, Cleveland city is 47% black and 37% white.
That's as much of your homework as I'll do. Your grade is an F-.

But to the point, it appears KC, LRock, and Cleveland are perpetual Dem-run cities.
 
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#73
#73
MontyPython said:
Glad you asked! 😊

Memphis Mayor Paul Young did not approve of the federal National Guard deployment, and publicly stated that the move was not his decision and that he does not support it. President Trump announced the deployment on September 12, 2025, and claimed that Young was "happy" about it, which the mayor has disputed.

Key points on the mayor's position:
  • Opposed but will cooperate: While Young does not support the National Guard deployment, he has committed to working with federal authorities to ensure their engagement "truly benefits and strengthens" the community. He called President Trump's claim that he was "happy" about the news an "overstatement".
  • Prefers other resources: Young stated that his focus was on obtaining other federal resources, such as FBI and ATF officers, to help address crime in Memphis. He noted that the National Guard is "not something that I think is a part of what will reduce crime in our city".
  • Was not informed beforehand: The mayor learned that the deployment was confirmed through President Trump's television interview. He stated that although his office had been in discussion with Tennessee Governor Bill Lee's office, he had not received official confirmation.
  • Concerns about optics: Mayor Young drew a comparison to the National Guard's 1968 deployment in Memphis after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. and stated, "We don't want to invoke those same images here".
The authority to deploy the National Guard at the federal level lies with the president and the governor, not the mayor. The deployment was requested by Tennessee Governor Bill Lee.

So, yes, the NG deployment is being forced upon the leader and people of Memphis without their approval.

And Quid Pro Quo: Do you support the National Guard invading deploying in Nashville next? It's a top-20 violent city.
Click to expand...
The mayor has no voice in the matter; the governor is the primal official in such instances. That's the legal constitutional basis.

Why do Democrats oppose a joint state/federal task force to afford Memphis residents security and peace of mind. The same type of safety that elected Democrats enjoy? That white leftists not living in the nightly shooting galleries enjoy? How dare Trump care about those minority citizens.

Even more horrifying, what if it works? And then more citizens in those dangerous Democrat cities notice, and maybe want some of that 'dictatorship', too...scary, huh?

Democrats really need this to not work. Which is how they keep finding themselves siding with the criminal, against their own constituents.

To paraphrase "Don't let racism get in the way of helping those black citizens most impacted by the violence"

Nashville? Sure. Why wouldn't I?
 
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#74
#74
gordonr24 said:
I’m in Germantown too. I’m not sure if this presence pertains to only the Memphis city limits or to all of Shelby Co.
Click to expand...
I would imagine all of Shelby County.

But I’m guessing they mass around Beale St and the general downtown area. What are they gonna do - send em into Orange Mound or Chelsea?

They’re certainly not headed to Germantown or Collierville…
 
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