Who will Kiffin run off next?

#151
#151
kptvol said:
Weird how we were dominant when Kelly was active in 2001. Then in 2002, he gets hurt, and we suck. I guess he wasn't a destructive force in the lockerroom in 2001, but then when he was injured Fulmer let him prance around and cause mischief. That makes tons of sense. 2002 was a bad year because our best WR was hurt, Jason Witten was underutilized, Cedric Houston was hurt, 4/5 starting OL were hurt, the DL was mostly new (and not any good), Julian Battle got hurt, and Casey Clausen got hurt.
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We were good in 2001 when kelly was active b/c defenses had to guard Donte Stallworth, Kelly Washington and Jason Witten, along with Travis Stephens out of the backfield.

In 02 (besides Stephens being replaced by the not-working Davis/Houston Fr. or Soph. combo), the Receiving core had lost stallworth (don't get me started on washington's involvement on his leaving early b/c it's all very debateable) and was just pretty much washington and witten. Then when Washington got hurt, teams just started double-teaming witten...it wasn't witten not being used, it was he became the guy the D would watch out for.

Not quite sure where u were going there but 02 was just pretty much an injury-fest and that shot the season (course houston hadn't gotten good/decent at that point either, which didnt help w/ a usually run-based attack)
 
#152
#152
sjt18 said:
I really don't know but just guessing... I'd say that Clawson wanted to build his system somewhat like CLK is doing- a piece at a time starting with the foundation plays. Fulmer had bought into the "throw it all at them and see what sticks" philosophy you use when your playbook contains every play and formation known to man.

Clawson much like CLK has a system that you build up and execute to the point where your opponents can't stop you. The previous UT system just cobbled together plays and formations that came easy to the players. It still worked decently well with a disciplinarian like Cut... but he's not the norm.

I didn't think at the time CPF was interferring very much. I now think he did in a couple of critical ways. I think he prevented a QB competition because of what the Ainge-Clausen controversy had done in 05. I also think he prevented Clawson from implementing his O in his way... which would have been progressive and probably would have cost UT games early in the season. They lost them anyway as it turned out. I think Fulmer would have balked if told that it wouldn't be fully implemented and effective for 2 years. It is possible that he knew two mediocre seasons while the O matured could cost him his job.

My only proofs I have for these thoughts are the comments made by players and coaches since the change... but I don't think I'm way off base.
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I think you're analysis is pretty spot on. I'd also add that Clawson was undone by a cobbled together staff that was not prepared to teach/coach Clawson's system and in some cases more loyal to Fulmer's style than getting with Clawson's program and I'd guess Fulmer indulged this behavior to the detriment of the team.

He brought in a new OC with a totally new system and only allowed him to bring one assistant with him. He sadled Clawson with an ineffective OL coach and a running back coach from left field who the FL fans seemed happy to be rid of. Clawson didn't have a chance from the get go.
 
#155
#155
TrueOrange said:
.

Not quite sure where u were going there but 02 was just pretty much an injury-fest and that shot the season (course houston hadn't gotten good/decent at that point either, which didnt help w/ a usually run-based attack)
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I was pointing out that Kelley had nothing to do with 2002 being a terrible year.
 
#157
#157
VolinDawgland said:
I think you're analysis is pretty spot on. I'd also add that Clawson was undone by a cobbled together staff that was not prepared to teach/coach Clawson's system and in some cases more loyal to Fulmer's style than getting with Clawson's program and I'd guess Fulmer indulged this behavior to the detriment of the team.

He brought in a new OC with a totally new system and only allowed him to bring one assistant with him. He sadled Clawson with an ineffective OL coach and a running back coach from left field who the FL fans seemed happy to be rid of. Clawson didn't have a chance from the get go.
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Lest we forget that offensive line Clawson had to deal with was the same offensive line that only gave up 4 sacks the entire season before.
 
#159
#159
utvolpj said:
which only proves how misleading that stat truly was
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Or that Coach Cut knew how to play the cards he was dealt.... Their job was to win ball games, not develop players to be All-SEC or NFL players (although usually the two go hand-in-hand)... They win ball games, VolNation is happy....Cut knew how to do that with the O-Line, Clawson didn't...
 
#160
#160
WPAINE said:
I also don't agree that Kiffin is going to end up being more of a disciplinarian than Fulmer.. It is easy for him to be one now for a few reasons: 1) he has not developed a long-term relationship with these guys, 2) He is inheriting a 5-7 team. He is not expected to win the SEC Championship this year like Fulmer was, giving him a little more lee-way.

This also tends to be the norm when a new coach comes in. Remember when Pearl got here and kicked off 2 or 3 guys off the bat? And then gave Ramar Smith and Duke Crews multiple chances before eventually kicking them off?

Here in a few years when we begin getting players that Kiffin had recruited and he has built a relationship with them it will be much more difficult for him to simply kick a player off. Last I checked, Fulmer got fired because he didn't win ball games, not because he was too lenient on players.. The same standards will apply to Kiffin as well.
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I don't think you understand what these coaches are trying to do with this team. If you want to play football at Tennessee, no one is tossing you off the team if you are doing what you are suppose to. As for what Phil Fulmer and staff did, IMO they had no real idea what direction the players were going and if they were helping the football team. Once again if you want to play football at Tennessee, follow the rules, few that there are, listen to the coaches and try and do what they are asking of you, if you can't listen to Coaches with a combined 11 national titles and a Super Bowl Championship and try and do what they ask of you. You really don't want to play football on a championship caliber team.
 
#162
#162
WPAINE said:
Or that Coach Cut knew how to play the cards he was dealt.... Their job was to win ball games, not develop players to be All-SEC or NFL players (although usually the two go hand-in-hand)... They win ball games, VolNation is happy....Cut knew how to do that with the O-Line, Clawson didn't...
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True... but you could also argue that Cut wasn't in it for the long term and was looking for the shortest path to a HC job.

I don't necessarily think it was that Clawson didn't know how but that he was trying to build something for the long term.

At Fordham he took over a terrible team and went 0-11, 3-8, 7-4, 10-3, 9-3. His O's avg'd: 16, 19, 30, 32, and 32 ppg.

At Richmond, he took over a 2-9 team and went 3-8, 9-4, 6-5, and 11-3. His O's avg'd: 18, 27, 25, and 35 ppg.

He's always been a foundation up builder. Both Hamilton and Fulmer knew that when they hired him... I think Hamilton knew it when he hired Kiffin too.
 
#166
#166
sjt18 said:
True... but you could also argue that Cut wasn't in it for the long term and was looking for the shortest path to a HC job.

I don't necessarily think it was that Clawson didn't know how but that he was trying to build something for the long term.

At Fordham he took over a terrible team and went 0-11, 3-8, 7-4, 10-3, 9-3. His O's avg'd: 16, 19, 30, 32, and 32 ppg.

At Richmond, he took over a 2-9 team and went 3-8, 9-4, 6-5, and 11-3. His O's avg'd: 18, 27, 25, and 35 ppg.

He's always been a foundation up builder. Both Hamilton and Fulmer knew that when they hired him... I think Hamilton knew it when he hired Kiffin too.
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Very true, I agree with you here.
 
#167
#167
PineyBluff Vol said:
I don't think you understand what these coaches are trying to do with this team. If you want to play football at Tennessee, no one is tossing you off the team if you are doing what you are suppose to. As for what Phil Fulmer and staff did, IMO they had no real idea what direction the players were going and if they were helping the football team. Once again if you want to play football at Tennessee, follow the rules, few that there are, listen to the coaches and try and do what they are asking of you, if you can't listen to Coaches with a combined 11 national titles and a Super Bowl Championship and try and do what they ask of you. You really don't want to play football on a championship caliber team.
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And I believe that your opinion is wrong....Look Kiffin and co. are doing a great job, but it is short-sighted to assume that Fulmer and staff had "no real idea what direction the players were going." Instead, I think pressure for him to win or be fired is ultimately what handcuffed Fulmer to give our best players more chances, knowing that his job was on the line....I think that is more of the realistic reason..
 
#169
#169
I guess all former UT players breaking laws left and right have no reflection on the way they were treated while at UT. Phil lost control a long time ago and it is only showing up now.
 
#171
#171
It only takes 11 to play. Sure, it would be nice to have 12 just in case someone gets injured.:)

And, just think of what we'll save on Gatorade this year.
 
#173
#173
We need a Vol Roster countdown thread... with a sticky where we can cross them off the roster as we go.
 
#174
#174
While I agree that Kiffin is doing the right thing by instilling disclipline in this team, I do not agree with him cutting ties with players who do not buy into his system 100% from day 1. These are college kids and to expect that every player will not slip up from time to time is unrealistic. That's what coaching is for - mentoring and coaching the kids to become better football players and people so they have the skills for success after their football careers. The challenge for the coaches is to work with these kids to get the best out of them despite early struggles or immaturity.

What if the Tennessee coaches had dismissed Robert Ayers his freshman year when he got arrested for aggravated assault? Or given up on him because of lack of work ethic his first 4 years (including redshirt year)? Ayers clearly lacked maturity and the appropriate work ethic until he blossomed as a senior, became one of the key leaders for a dominant 2008 defense, and put himself in a position to be high draft pick.

National Football League: NFL Draft 2009 - Robert Ayers

"Ayers barely registered a blip on the NFL radar until 2008. He had played in 36 games for the Volunteers, but had only started two games, both as a sophomore. He had also struggled with maturity, getting suspended for the first two games of 2005 after pleading guilty to misdemeanor assult. The Tennessee coaching staff recognized Ayers' improved work ethic before he went on to enjoy a breakout senior season, posting career highs in tackles (49) and tackles for loss (15.5). He earned first-team All-SEC honors from conference coaches and is shooting up NFL draft boards."
 
#175
#175
CaliVol said:
While I agree that Kiffin is doing the right thing by instilling disclipline in this team, I do not agree with him cutting ties with players who do not buy into his system 100% from day 1. These are college kids and to expect that every player will not slip up from time to time is unrealistic. That's what coaching is for - mentoring and coaching the kids to become better football players and people so they have the skills for success after their football careers. The challenge for the coaches is to work with these kids to get the best out of them despite early struggles or immaturity.

What if the Tennessee coaches had dismissed Robert Ayers his freshman year when he got arrested for aggravated assault? Or given up on him because of lack of work ethic his first 4 years (including redshirt year)? Ayers clearly lacked maturity and the appropriate work ethic until he blossomed as a senior, became one of the key leaders for a dominant 2008 defense, and put himself in a position to be high draft pick.

National Football League: NFL Draft 2009 - Robert Ayers

"Ayers barely registered a blip on the NFL radar until 2008. He had played in 36 games for the Volunteers, but had only started two games, both as a sophomore. He had also struggled with maturity, getting suspended for the first two games of 2005 after pleading guilty to misdemeanor assult. The Tennessee coaching staff recognized Ayers' improved work ethic before he went on to enjoy a breakout senior season, posting career highs in tackles (49) and tackles for loss (15.5). He earned first-team All-SEC honors from conference coaches and is shooting up NFL draft boards."
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Chances are Ayers would have made it with the current staff and probably would have made it sooner rather than later.

You have to believe that of all the things we hear about the players there are sooooo many more that are taken care of. So when a coach decides to rid himself of a player I'm fine with it.
 
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