Who thinks Canales is a "C" hire now?

You're citing class rankings as "proof"? How these players perform is the true barometer of BOTH talent and player development. Your "proof" hasn't happened yet.

The proof is in the lack of quality depth in year 4. 2014 was Lyle's best class on the field and in the rankings. The best players from that class have left. As we all know, recruiting rankings and wins have a correlation. When we lost players, they were replaced with almost scrub level guys. The losses to SC and Vandy is proof to that. How did Florida, whom lost almost just as much, beat LSU to win the east? McElwain is a better coach.
 
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You cannot rationally say that this program has not improved from where it was when Butch was hired. It has, siginificantly, and in every area.

In fact, it improved every year under him until last year. And, yes, last year was not a good coaching job by him. He had some unfortunate injuries, but he let the Hurd situation get out of control, and he failed to place competent assistants at several positions (including QB and S&C) that were just a few of the shortcomings.

But, he has earned the right to coach at least through 2017 IMO based on his performance so far. With that, I will support the man rather than whine, p!$$ and moan over everything. Not a sunshine pumping blind follower, but certainly not a doom and gloom Negavol either.

Dear God. I've not said that the program hasn't improved under Butch. Quite the contrary, I've probably posted at a dozen times all the great things he's done here from recruiting to apr to wins on the field. But there are plenty of things to be critical of and if one dares mention them, even when balanced out vs the positives, the Vol Nation busybodies/Butch Jones Brownshirts come running from the woodwork to shout down the dastardly offender(s).
 
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The proof is in the lack of quality depth in year 4. 2014 was Lyle's best class on the field and in the rankings. The best players from that class have left. As we all know, recruiting rankings and wins have a correlation. When we lost players, they were replaced with almost scrub level guys. The losses to SC and Vandy is proof to that. How did Florida, whom lost almost just as much, beat LSU to win the east? McElwain is a better coach.

But McElwain lost to Butch? How's that make him a better coach if he can't even beat Butch??
 
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But McElwain lost to Butch? How's that make him a better coach if he can't even beat Butch??

Donkey Face is worse than Smart at Ga. Smart couldn't seal the deal with a 17-0 lead and Donkey Face had a 21-0 lead and let it slip away.

What a joke, both of them.
 
The proof is in the lack of quality depth in year 4. 2014 was Lyle's best class on the field and in the rankings. The best players from that class have left. As we all know, recruiting rankings and wins have a correlation. When we lost players, they were replaced with almost scrub level guys. The losses to SC and Vandy is proof to that. How did Florida, whom lost almost just as much, beat LSU to win the east? McElwain is a better coach.

So how have you evaluated the subsequent classes so definitely? Because the depth didn't step up last year? Case closed? What if our DBs respond to better coaching? Been known to happen. And there have been some bust classes that were highly rated (2009 anyone?). One of our starting DTs fails one too many drug tests and two other DTs get injured and are out for the season, another is practically lost after a legal matter made his offseason conditioning nonexistent and the DE's and walk-ons filling in aren't great and THAT is "decreasing" recruiting? Damn Burger! Glad you weren't the commanding officer at Dunkirk! MAYBE 2014 ends up our "best class" maybe it struggles to end up top 10 if Butch bucks you and evolves enough to win in Knoxville.
 
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Dear God. I've not said that the program hasn't improved under Butch. Quite the contrary, I've probably posted at a dozen times all the great things he's done here from recruiting to apr to wins on the field. But there are plenty of things to be critical of and if one dares mention them, even when balanced out vs the positives, the Vol Nation busybodies/Butch Jones Brownshirts come running from the woodwork to shout down the dastardly offender(s).

Nazi references KB? Little extreme?
 
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While the 14 class was heralded, the 15 class is showing up way more.

Q. Dormady, J. Kelly, J.Jennings C. Hall, J.Jones, D.Richmond, K.McKenzie, K.Phillips, S.Tuttle, D.Kirkland, A.Smith, M.Abernathy, J.Martin, A.Kamara (left the program but for a good reason)

Some of these guys have been hampered by injury or still growing into their roles but are still players we look to be prominent for our team. The 14 class seemed to be a case of quantity over quality. Possibly not a enough talent evaluation. Or satisfying questions such as: Do they fit the system? How about character issues? And how much stock do we put in who their daddy"s are? (legacy players)

I don't understand the point of harping on a great class that wasn't and not applauding the lower rated class that"s far exceeding it.
 
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So how have you evaluated the subsequent classes so definitely? Because the depth didn't step up last year? Case closed? What if our DBs respond to better coaching? Been known to happen. And there have been some bust classes that were highly rated (2009 anyone?). One of our starting DTs fails one too many drug tests and two other DTs get injured and are out for the season, another is practically lost after a legal matter made his offseason conditioning nonexistent and the DE's and walk-ons filling in aren't great and THAT is "decreasing" recruiting? Damn Burger! Glad you weren't the commanding officer at Dunkirk! MAYBE 2014 ends up our "best class" maybe it struggles to end up top 10 if Butch bucks you and evolves enough to win in Knoxville.

We can go the other direction with those what ifs. It was year four last year, he should of developed the players better so we don't lose to Vandy.
 
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We can go the other direction with those what ifs. It was year four last year, he should of developed the players better so we don't lose to Vandy.

Developed em well enough to beat UGA and Florida...so winning streak against the Dawgs and broke an epic streak against Florida...how soon we forget. :no:
 
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Let me restate. I'm a fan of the Tennessee Vols football program, have been pretty much whole life, always will be. I'm only a fan of any Tennessee Vols football program head coach to the extent that he's improving the program, winning games/championships, moving the program forward/in the right direction.

Yet, when I or most anybody else similarly posts much of anything "negative" about Butch Jones' job performance, like clockwork here come long knives from a handful of posters who seem to do nothing by snipe and gripe about criticism of Butch no matter how innocuous or how valid the point or criticism is. No criticism whatsoever of allowed of the head coach.....players and fans, you bet, no problem, let em have it. But the one singular guy most responsible for the successes and failures of the program, no siree, not allowed, go pull for somebody else, you're not a real Vol fan if you have anything not "positive" or glowing to say.

So, yeah, I stand by the idea that there guys on here who seem to have lost their way, their priority here. It's not about the caretaker, as Jones calls it, of the program, because they come and go......Neyland, Dickey, Majors, Fulmer......it's all about the good, the health and improvement of the program.

You didn't really need to restate. I just typed 3 long paragraphs before realizing it really doesn't matter and deleted it. Everything I said has already been said.

I know what you mean, honestly, I do. I do think it's exaggerated a bit though. I think everyone has different ideas of what success is for our program and some get a little too emotional and take things a little too personal sometimes.

Lol, I just did it again. At least there is only two and they're short.
 
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You didn't really need to restate. I just typed 3 long paragraphs before realizing it really doesn't matter and deleted it. Everything I said has already been said.

I know what you mean, honestly, I do. I do think it's exaggerated a bit though. I think everyone has different ideas of what success is for our program and some get a little too emotional and take things a little too personal sometimes.

Lol, I just did it again. At least there is only two and they're short.

Haha, no worries. I'll just finish with saying I'm good with guys sharing different ideas, different opinions, positive and negative. Just don't get the guys who post just to tell others they suck and aren't "true Vol fans" when they don't agree. That I'm just sick of reading.
 
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Developed em well enough to beat UGA and Florida...so winning streak against the Dawgs and broke an epic streak against Florida...how soon we forget. :no:

Lost to Vandy, which Butch Jones is the only coach in somewhat recent memory that lost to Vandy twice.
 
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We can blame Spurier for our trouble with Florida.

They were nothing before Spurier.

Donkey Face is about to set them back 20 years.

Didn't we hear that last year? And the year before?

Say what you want about McElwain, but in his step up to the SEC, he's increased his win percentage overall and in conference play.

CSU
Overall:57.8% Conference:58.3%

Florida
Overall:70.3% Conference:81.3%

I'll believe he's setting back their program when those numbers start going down instead of up.
 
Didn't we hear that last year? And the year before?

Say what you want about McElwain, but in his step up to the SEC, he's increased his win percentage overall and in conference play.

CSU
Overall:57.8% Conference:58.3%

Florida
Overall:70.3% Conference:81.3%

I'll believe he's setting back their program when those numbers start going down instead of up.

With Muschamps defensive players. It's about to fall to pieces.
 
Seems like people said the same thing about UF when Meyer left.

When are some UT fans going to realize that UF isnt going to suffer like we did?

I would just as well beat them at a high point, but that opportunity has past.

They went 4-8. They beat us them fell to pieces. 4-8 and keep the HC. What a slacker program.
 
Beat Florida. Hadn't been done since Fulmer was relevant.

0-4 against Muschamp. Lyle finally beat a team he was more talented than? Who knew!

machamp.png
 
0-4 against Muschamp. Lyle finally beat a team he was more talented than? Who knew!

machamp.png

They sure had a number of draftees...maybe Butch outcoached him? :question: Butch was 2-0 against Spurrier, and both teams were supposedly more talented soooo? :)
 
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