Who is responsible for all these coaches saying no to the Vols

#26
#26
DC Vol said:
It probably has more to do with our OOC Schedule in addition to who we have to play every year. 3 of the last 4 NCs have gone to yearly opponents. Tennessee also isn't exactly sitting with equal talent to those opponents (below the top-tier SEC and below the upcoming Big-12 opponents).

Also, the expectation to win is insane here. Good luck winning against Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, sprinkled SEC-W opponents and the upcoming Big-12 schedule as opposed to TCU? Utah? Clemson?

Can't blame them for backing down to a tremendous challenge. If they're even being paid 75% of what they'd be getting paid here they should stay out. Basically Tennessee's only hope is to bring in an aggressive coach that absolutely wants to prove himself against the best week-in-week-out competition in the country. Coming here is a much higher risk than it is reward for most coaches in the country. We could only get guys in here that really have nothing to lose.

That's not necessarily indicative of UT.
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Preach brother... that is why wimp left. He realized the ridiculous competition in the SEC as a whole, and particularly UT's schedule for the next several years...

I've said it for the last 3 years or so... and particularly since Saban came back. The SEC is the best conference in football, but you'd have to be an egomaniac or masochist to want to take the job...

You get Spurrier, Richt, Meyer, Saban every year. And, periodically, Miles, Chizik, Mullen now... this conference is murderers row...
 
#27
#27
DC Vol said:
It probably has more to do with our OOC Schedule in addition to who we have to play every year. 3 of the last 4 NCs have gone to yearly opponents. Tennessee also isn't exactly sitting with equal talent to those opponents (below the top-tier SEC and below the upcoming Big-12 opponents).

Also, the expectation to win is insane here. Good luck winning against Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, sprinkled SEC-W opponents and the upcoming Big-12 schedule as opposed to TCU? Utah? Clemson?

Can't blame them for backing down to a tremendous challenge. If they're even being paid 75% of what they'd be getting paid here they should stay out. Basically Tennessee's only hope is to bring in an aggressive coach that absolutely wants to prove himself against the best week-in-week-out competition in the country. Coming here is a much higher risk than it is reward for most coaches in the country. We could only get guys in here that really have nothing to lose.

That's not necessarily indicative of UT.
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Your right on both counts. TN is a very challenging place to coach. 1. TN's schedule (over the next few years) has to be one of the toughest in the country. What other team in the country (including SEC) is locked into playing bama and florida (every year)? That alone is brutal, toss in a few Oregons, Nebraskas, and Oklahomas along the way and its almost funny. 2. People want success here and they want it yesterday. Very passionate fans with little patience makes for a tough job. Also, and this may be the most important reason, some people are happy where they are at (why change something that works for you).
 
#28
#28
DC Vol said:
2010 is absolutely brutal.

Sept. 4 Akron* (UT MARTIN)
Sept. 11 Oregon
Sept. 18 Florida
Sept. 25 UAB
Oct. 2 at LSU
Oct. 9 at Georgia
Oct. 23 Alabama
Oct. 30 at South Carolina
Nov. 6 at Memphis
Nov. 13 Mississippi
Nov. 20 at Vanderbilt
Nov. 27 Kentucky

Compare that to the 2010 TCU and Utah schedules.
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Is that at AKRON or is it in VOL country?

EDIT: Schedule on UT SPORTS is UT MARTIN
 
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#29
#29
I like Cut. I appreciate what he's done for UT. But I don't think he would have been a good hire and especially if he insisted on bringing his whole staff. Loyalty to individuals cannot trump loyalty to the "cause"... in this case the UT football program.

We're in this mess precisely because Fulmer's personal loyalty to both players and coaches contributed heavily to the decline of the program into accepted mediocrity.
 
#30
#30
Many of you that say give them 4 or 5 million and complete control are like a bunch of crazed left wing liberals. You need to be fiscally responsible. We are not Alabama, Texas or Florida or even Penn State or Ohio were we can just throw money at the wind. Those programs have a rock solid foundation and the money will be there every year from TV deals etc... Smart cheap hires, young hires are what we need. The Dooley Deal if it was staggered over 5 years makes good sense 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.4 MILLION would be a great smart contract. Did we do that? We won't know for a few weeks until UTK releases the numbers.

The school has taken a lot away from others students that aren't on the football or basketball teams just to feed this coach hiring frenzy, it needs to stop with smart logical bargain priced deals.

I understand the point of healthcare and football in Tennessee...and it is true that we are almost always better off with something than nothing, but let's be logical. I always agree that when a flood is coming it's best to build a boat even if it has a bunch of holes in it than to argue and get washed out to see. It doesn't have to be perfect from day one...

Progress in Motion
 
#31
#31
DC Vol said:
It probably has more to do with our OOC Schedule in addition to who we have to play every year. 3 of the last 4 NCs have gone to yearly opponents. Tennessee also isn't exactly sitting with equal talent to those opponents (below the top-tier SEC and below the upcoming Big-12 opponents).

Also, the expectation to win is insane here. Good luck winning against Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, sprinkled SEC-W opponents and the upcoming Big-12 schedule as opposed to TCU? Utah? Clemson?

Can't blame them for backing down to a tremendous challenge. If they're even being paid 75% of what they'd be getting paid here they should stay out. Basically Tennessee's only hope is to bring in an aggressive coach that absolutely wants to prove himself against the best week-in-week-out competition in the country. Coming here is a much higher risk than it is reward for most coaches in the country. We could only get guys in here that really have nothing to lose.

That's not necessarily indicative of UT.
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Yes we are accustomed to winning, but we went 7-6 last year and I really didnt hear that much complaining. I just dont understand why someone who used to play here, that is now currently coaching at Clemson would not want to come back for as much money as his head coach makes now. I guess I do understand no one wants to be labeled as a Kiffin right now though. Character is very important in coaching and good coaches have made promises to kids and their families and if you have a heart it would be hard to leave 2 weeks before NSD.
 
#32
#32
TENNaciousUTfan said:
I wouldn't sweat it. Right before signing day is a terrible time of the year to be trying to find coaches. Like trying to fish in a snow storm.

Many don't want to end up looking like kiffin
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This is EXACTLY it. Coaches, even assistants, do not want to crap on their programs the way Kiffin did. I would not be surprised if Dooley is unable to complete his staff until after NSD. Loyalty counts for something in some places.
 
#33
#33
swiperboyfan said:
Yes we are accustomed to winning, but we went 7-6 last year and I really didnt hear that much complaining. I just dont understand why someone who used to play here, that is now currently coaching at Clemson would not want to come back for as much money as his head coach makes now. I guess I do understand no one wants to be labeled as a Kiffin right now though. Character is very important in coaching and good coaches have made promises to kids and their families and if you have a heart it would be hard to leave 2 weeks before NSD.
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Because the risk vs reward situation makes it a bad career move. At 51, Steele isn't ready to fall on his sword for UT. I think it probably has little to do with NSD. Alot of asst coaches move during this period and it usually isn't a huge deal. Kiffin, Nutt, Saban,... pretty much every new coach fills their staffs during Dec and Jan.

If UT could afford to wait and STILL land a solid class then Steele might see a different scenario later this year. But he'd be taking a gamble that UT will have the talent he needs to be successful... that makes Clemson much too much safer.
 
#34
#34
johnnyknoxville said:
Many of you that say give them 4 or 5 million and complete control are like a bunch of crazed left wing liberals. You need to be fiscally responsible. We are not Alabama, Texas or Florida or even Penn State or Ohio were we can just throw money at the wind. Those programs have a rock solid foundation and the money will be there every year from TV deals etc... Smart cheap hires, young hires are what we need. The Dooley Deal if it was staggered over 5 years makes good sense 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.4 MILLION would be a great smart contract. Did we do that? We won't know for a few weeks until UTK releases the numbers.

The school has taken a lot away from others students that aren't on the football or basketball teams just to feed this coach hiring frenzy, it needs to stop with smart logical bargain priced deals.

I understand the point of healthcare and football in Tennessee...and it is true that we are almost always better off with something than nothing, but let's be logical. I always agree that when a flood is coming it's best to build a boat even if it has a bunch of holes in it than to argue and get washed out to see. It doesn't have to be perfect from day one...

Progress in Motion
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Maybe you didn't notice but we gave Fulmer 6 million dollars not to coach, and Pat Summitt 1 million a year to coach. I think we are like Alabama, Texas, and Florida. In fact our stadium is bigger.
 
#36
#36
Who is responsible for all these coaches saying no to the Vols?

Obviously a dastardly plot by those two evil, corrupt co-conspirators, Phil Fulmer and Lane Kiffin.
 
#37
#37
johnnyknoxville said:
Many of you that say give them 4 or 5 million and complete control are like a bunch of crazed left wing liberals. You need to be fiscally responsible. We are not Alabama, Texas or Florida or even Penn State or Ohio were we can just throw money at the wind. Those programs have a rock solid foundation and the money will be there every year from TV deals etc... Smart cheap hires, young hires are what we need. The Dooley Deal if it was staggered over 5 years makes good sense 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.4 MILLION would be a great smart contract. Did we do that? We won't know for a few weeks until UTK releases the numbers.

The school has taken a lot away from others students that aren't on the football or basketball teams just to feed this coach hiring frenzy, it needs to stop with smart logical bargain priced deals.
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Let me cut you off there... you don't know much about the operations of the UTAD. It does not, in any way cut into the academic community. It entirely supports itself, to include scholarships and turns in a good portion of profits to the University proper for academic scholarships.


There are a definitely schools out there that have more money (Texas, Notre Dame, Oregon), but UT isn't exactly poor in regards to total AD wealth (Ranked 9th in Nation with almost $90mil in revenue) without even factoring in the donations of the boosters.
 
#38
#38
oklavol said:
They said no to the offer Hamilton gave them. If they had been offered 4-5 million and complete control would they have said no?

Some of them probably would have, some of them probably would not. They rejected the offer they got, not necessarily the job.

For example, Cutcliffe wanted to bring his assistants and not inherit the ones from Kiffin's staff, so he said no.
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cutcliffe wanted an offer by Thursday night or said he wouldn't come. He was never told who had to be on his staff, he was asked what his staff would look like. For whatever reason he wanted to speed up a search already moving at light speed. You can't say he turned down the job because of staff restrictions.

As to why people passed on the job, why would we be any different than USC or even Alabama during their last search? While u can argue whether Alabama is a better job, it is definitely on par, at least, with the tenn job. Saban was not their first choice. USC has good tallent on their current roster, they have good football tradition, it has great in state tallent to recruit, they are in a bcs conference but don't have the murderous competition that exists in the sec and their top 4 or 5 choices didn't want to go there. Tenn roster next year will have players from three very average recruiting classes, especially when compared to the sec. Has tenn finished above 4th or 5th in recruiting in the sec in the last four years? X did well last year in recruiting late and still finished fourth in the sec in recruiting rankings. Dooleys first real recruits will arrive here in 2012. The combination of competition, shortage of talent and expectations is a recipe for failure. I am a huge ut fan, and this is a great program with great resources, but it does not have talent it needs to win over the next two years. It is always possible that some of the players are much better than their recruiting ranking, that happens all the time, but on paper this is not a program that can meet it's fans expectations until a couple recruiting classes, great ones, can arrive.
 
#39
#39
This is a list of some of the coaches who turned down, weren't interested etc... in taking a job at UT since Fulmer left. I'm sure I left some out.

Lovie Smith, twice
Jon Gruden, twice
Will Muschamp, twice
Troy Calhoun, came in 2nd(reportedly) when X was hired, turned down post X
Gary Patterson
Chris Peterson
Brian Kelly
Butch Davis
Mike Leach
Tim Brewster
Kyle Whittingham
David Cutcliffe
The one thing all have in common is some kind of communication with Mike Hamilton or representatives for UT. I think it's a fair question to ask. Is there a reason a coach might not want to work for/with Mike Hamilton?
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
Until a week ago, UT appeared poised to make a run at the SEC, but likelihood after recent events is that UT is falling further behind Florida and Alabama. Its going ot be a rough ride.
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Wishful thinking!


Things are looking better and better day by day. Like today in recruiting. It sometimes looks better hour by hour.
 
#42
#42
vol66 said:
This is a list of some of the coaches who turned down, weren't interested etc... in taking a job at UT since Fulmer left. I'm sure I left some out.

Lovie Smith, twice
Jon Gruden, twice
Will Muschamp, twice
Troy Calhoun, came in 2nd(reportedly) when X was hired, turned down post X
Gary Patterson
Chris Peterson
Brian Kelly
Butch Davis
Mike Leach
Tim Brewster
Kyle Whittingham
David Cutcliffe
The one thing all have in common is some kind of communication with Mike Hamilton or representatives for UT. I think it's a fair question to ask. Is there a reason a coach might not want to work for/with Mike Hamilton?
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believe what you want,my opinon is the way he sent fulmer out.cant trust a snake :eek:hmy:
 
#44
#44
posivol said:
believe what you want,my opinon is the way he sent fulmer out.cant trust a snake :eek:hmy:
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I think we agree. We should be able to retain a coach with a successful track record. If not, why would you pay an unproven coach 2 million dollars? I hope Coach Dooley does well, and I'll support him. I just have a really hard time believing, that after two national searches, the only coaches we can get are unproven clients of Jimmy Sexton.
 
#46
#46
comparing what the head football coach at UT makes vs the women's basketball coach makes is apples and oranges...not even close.
 
#47
#47
Why should Dooley make as much as Summit? Why should he even be in the ballpark? He was making 400 Grand or so and doing two jobs at La.Tech, double his salary if ya want, but 2.4 million to an unproven candidate just doesn't make sense.
 
#48
#48
We can afford any number we want to afford. Much of the HC money comes from The Derek Dooley Show, endorsements, etc. We get the same amount from TV deals as the other SEC teams, don't we? Seems I remember Hammy saying something about 15 million a year from the new SEC TV contracts. I just don't see paying out 4-5 million until they prove they are willing to do what it takes to win in the SEC. On the other subject, we don't really know all these guys said no and if they indeed said no, what they were saying no to. Maybe some of them this year were saying no to the 452 million dollar buyout(that better be in this new contract) if they left early. Maybe it was staff issues. Maybe it was moral issues. I would almost guarantee every one of the ones that did say no had a different reason for doing so. When it comes down to it, money is not always the issue with everyone.
 
#50
#50
aredfox28 said:
i know its been said before, but hammy needs to open up his wallet!
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I just don't think the money, in and of it's self is the problem. We have it to spend. Is it the way Hammy makes the offers? Does he play games that upper tier coaches don't want to play? I mean it would be one thing to hire Dooley for double his LaTech salary with the caveat that we'd be going after the top OC and DC candidates. I just don't understand why The University of Tennessee is not an attractive job opportunity for more experienced coaches. Maybe they don't like Hamilton or the way he presents the offers or interviews.
 
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