Who has more roster talent UT or WVU?

#27
#27
Volatility said:
Yes, they were 7-6. But Grier was out the last three games. I don’t know if he would’ve won considering the last three teams were much tougher. But hypothetically this WVU could’ve been 10-3 last year.

Of course, we could’ve hypothetically been 7-5 last year. Football’s a funny game like that.
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And how many injuries did we have, not only last season but the last several years? The results are what they are and WVU was 7-6 last year! WVU is NOT more talented than the Vols and not better coached!
 
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#28
#28
37620VOL said:
I agree that there are talent equalizers in play.
1. Installation of completely new off and def systems for UT.
2. Coaching experience and continuity for WVU.

Honestly, I think this is about a pick'em game. If we win, it's a big deal and says a lot for the skill of our new coaches.
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Except its not.

Wvu is a 10 to 10.5 point favorite right now and the line could climb to almost 2 tds by game day.
 
#29
#29
Volatility said:
Yes, they were 7-6. But Grier was out the last three games. I don’t know if he would’ve won considering the last three teams were much tougher. But hypothetically this WVU could’ve been 10-3 last year.

Of course, we could’ve hypothetically been 7-5 last year. Football’s a funny game like that.
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Lost vs VaTech- Grier played
Lost vs TVU- Grier played
Lost to Oklahoma State- Grier played
Lost to Oklahoma- Grier didn’t play
Lost to Texas- Grier played first 3-4 possessions, had a 22 QBR, before being injured.
Lost to Utah- Grier didn’t play

Those are the 5 best teams WVa played last year and Grier played in 4 of the losses.

Is he really good? Yes. But it’s not simple enough to just say Grier missed 3 games and assume they lost all 3. Not true, they still lost games vs the better teams they played when he played.
 
#30
#30
It's about who's a better team, who has more chemistry and togetherness.

Stars go away after the recruiting rankings. Hopefully we have a better team come next Saturday.

To answer your question: Yes, we do have more talent than them all together.
 
#31
#31
I know it’s not a fair comparison but I remember the last time we went to a 3 - 4 scheme. It was painful.
 
#32
#32
KeepinUpWithJones said:
To me, it seems possible that UT has more talent, but making an argument purely based off recruiting rankings is silly. UT's talent has far more to prove than WVU at this point. I think making the argument that we have more talent, ignores how poor our perceived superior talent performed last year. I understand we had Butch Jones and that certainly accounts for some of it but I feel like it's somewhere between coaching ineptitude and overrated high school talent. Hope I'm wrong, we will see next week
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I prefer to draw conclusions from inputs that are quantifiable. In general, recruiting rankings are surprisingly accurate in producing championships and NFL potential. So if you want to say wvu is more talented based on the eyeball test, there's not much I can say in response, except agree to disagree.
 
#34
#34
EricberryFAN said:
It's about who's a better team, who has more chemistry and togetherness.
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Disagree. You can have a team full of mercenaries, but if they are talented and do the job coaches assign, you'll beat a team full of Colton Jumpers. Said another way, a team full of Colton Jumpers will never win a championship except maybe a championship of life.
 
#35
#35
Rudy123 said:
I can honestly see the WVU game going either way. We usually do well against non conference opponents. If we win, I will not be surprised and if we lose I will not be surprised.
I think our bds will be the deciding factor in this game. Hope they play well
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Actually I just went back 8 years and you're right. Outside of Oregon (vols were really outmatched) and Oklahoma (should've won at least one), the Vols have won all their OOC games. And there was some quality opponents
 
#36
#36
I think the vegas line for this game is misleading b/c the perception out there is that the Vols suck and vegas is in the business of weighing public sentiment to get equal money on both sides. All bias aside, I actually would bet on the vols to at least cover based on pure talent alone.
 
#37
#37
37620VOL said:
Disagree. You can have a team full of mercenaries, but if they are talented and do the job coaches assign, you'll beat a team full of Colton Jumpers. Said another way, a team full of Colton Jumpers will never win a championship except maybe a championship of life.
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If they do the job the coaches are telling them, they're probably a good team and have a togetherness about them.

You can have the most talented and fastest guys but if they're not in the right assignments, then a team of less talented players that know where to go would have the edge.

Probably wouldn't win a championship because they'd play a more talented "team", but if we're talking about just talented guys vs a good team. I would always pick the team. That's why you have upsets.

I lol'd at your champions of life.
 
#39
#39
37620VOL said:
I prefer to draw conclusions from inputs that are quantifiable. In general, recruiting rankings are surprisingly accurate in producing championships and NFL potential. So if you want to say wvu is more talented based on the eyeball test, there's not much I can say in response, except agree to disagree.
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4-8 seems pretty quantifiable to me

Again hope I'm wrong but I don't love the idea of saying we have more talent than WVU. My fear is it causes UT fans to go to Charlotte expecting a win, when no objective person expects Pruitt to beat a highly regarded WVU team after going 4-8 last year and losing significant pieces to the draft from a bad team
 
#40
#40
Development, injuries, and coaching turnover can really damper the star system. WVU might not have as much talent but I imagine their chemistry and system football will bump them up.
 
#41
#41
KBVol said:
Not at all disagreeing with you about lack of development from Jones and company, there’s no doubt about that.

However, we’re much more talented than WVa, a mediocre team that was 7-6 last year. I fully believe that a top notch coach, a strong coaching staff, can greatly improve this roster, certainly enough to beat a marginal, .500 team like WVa, in 9 months time.
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Yes, but 3 of Tenn losses could and should have been wins...FL, USC and UK. So 4-8 could and should have been 7-5. Then a bowl game and possibly another win for an 8-5 season. Not really far fetched and had we gone into the Vandy game 7-4 we might of had momentum to win that one also.
 
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#42
#42
One other thing to remember about last year the Vols were probably the greatest 4-8 team ever assembled in college football.
 
#43
#43
Well, based on what everyone has posted, I think UT wins, its hard to take off the orange colored glasses. I just love this team and if CJP and company do anything it will be better than last year. So does that equal 3 more wins?.........I think so. Tennessee with better coaching last year could of easily won 7 games. UT will be a better performing/looking team than last year........and that is not really hard to do. If JG or KC manage the game and don't give it away......UT wins by 14+ish..........to be honest, it's hard for me to ever say UT will lose to anyone.........it's just the way I am as a fan.........expectations are a crazy thing.

Go Vols!............beat WVA.
 
#44
#44
KBVol said:
Lost vs VaTech- Grier played
Lost vs TVU- Grier played
Lost to Oklahoma State- Grier played
Lost to Oklahoma- Grier didn’t play
Lost to Texas- Grier played first 3-4 possessions, had a 22 QBR, before being injured.
Lost to Utah- Grier didn’t play

Those are the 5 best teams WVa played last year and Grier played in 4 of the losses.

Is he really good? Yes. But it’s not simple enough to just say Grier missed 3 games and assume they lost all 3. Not true, they still lost games vs the better teams they played when he played.
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This first play should have been intercepted -- maybe Grier will try this again first play on 9/1 --


 
#45
#45
So, I went back and looked at the previous recruits for WVA, they played some good games with Grier last year. The thing that really irritates me about UT's roster............is the obvious lack of development of UT's players AND I would say when Jones dismissed all his good friends for the "the best coaching staff...blah blah blah" he lost continuity within his staff. But the S&C of our players had to be down right abysmal.

So, CJP doesn't have that problem, and I am not sure where UT's players really are in development and understanding a new Offensive and Defensive scheme...............Saturday will demonstrate where they truly are.............HOWEVER, I do think this team improves as the year progresses. I do believe Fritz did about as much as any S&C could do in the time he was given, lets hope that part is light years ahead of where that program was.
 
#46
#46
That is why I have been saying that we'll find out what kind of coaching we have this season. I think they have a solid group of players to work with even though they may not be able to get over the Butch Jones effect in year one. I think it is not unfair to these coaches to say that we should win at least three non conference games and win three conference games. I have to think out talent level is better than Vandy or Kentucky even Missouri. Were certainly at least even with SC and Florida. Auburn has a slight edge. Bama and Ga way ahead in talent.
What W. Va brings to the table is a terrific QB, great WR's and a very solid offensive line. They can score points. If we can't put up points on their defense I will consider our offense weak. I consider their linebackers small according to the SEC and even their DL men are in the 270 to 280 range. What we don't have is that big 235 pound back to bruise them up a bit by the third or fourth quarter. I think that is the players that we'll see Pruitt add in the coming seasons.
The hope going into this W Va game and what will decide our fate is how well our OL can handle their DL. We have to win the line of scrimmage on offense and run the ball very effectively. Something like 50 running plays for 275 yards would certainly be awesome. If for any reason they stop our running game look for this to be a two touchdown or more defeat. I doubt we can get consistent pressure on their QB for the entire game. I don't think our DB's can hold up if they have all day to throw the ball.
This one game will tell us a lot about our team this season. The W. Va. offense probably ranks in the top ten in the nation. Their defense would be one of the worst in the SEC. We need to score a lot of points to win and we should be able to do that against their defense.
 
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#47
#47
FlyFishnVol said:
So, I went back and looked at the previous recruits for WVA, they played some good games with Grier last year. The thing that really irritates me about UT's roster............is the obvious lack of development of UT's players AND I would say when Jones dismissed all his good friends for the "the best coaching staff...blah blah blah" he lost continuity within his staff. But the S&C of our players had to be down right abysmal.

So, CJP doesn't have that problem, and I am not sure where UT's players really are in development and understanding a new Offensive and Defensive scheme...............Saturday will demonstrate where they truly are.............HOWEVER, I do think this team improves as the year progresses. I do believe Fritz did about as much as any S&C could do in the time he was given, lets hope that part is light years ahead of where that program was.
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There's the question. Is WVU a bit over-hyped, probably. Is UT's talent level underestimated?, again, probably.
The problem is how many of our expected contributers have only participated in a few fall practices? Some were limited even then.

UT absolutely has talent and could win. But my confidence level would be higher if the game was played later in the season. Just a game or 2 of live snaps to build cohesion.
 
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#48
#48
I want to go completely off topic...........I can't help but think that Smith would be dominate on the DL.........what say you?
 
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#50
#50
UT-Rex said:
This first play should have been intercepted -- maybe Grier will try this again first play on 9/1 --


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Didn't UT give Grier a hard time at Florida? Sills for WVA.........slants and back shoulder throws, hope our guys can jump on some of Grier's passes.
 
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