Who Deserves the Blame?

There are variables such as freak in-game injuries. I think/hope we all understand that. However, we are dealing with a first time head coach and I don't see much reason why he needs any more time to prove himself than what Dooley got. If thing are in the capper after 2020 season, we have to be prepared to move on. The way some posters here opine, they're ready to make CJP coach for life, which is the same thing they did with Butch.

Okay.
 
There are variables such as freak in-game injuries. I think/hope we all understand that. However, we are dealing with a first time head coach and I don't see much reason why he needs any more time to prove himself than what Dooley got. If thing are in the capper after 2020 season, we have to be prepared to move on. The way some posters here opine, they're ready to make CJP coach for life, which is the same thing they did with Butch.
I almost never agree with you but you're right here. If there isn't improvement this fall... I'm going to say at least two wins plus greater competitiveness... then prepare to make a move unless he pulls off something big in year 3.

Honestly though... Fulmer's not the guy who is likely to do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Remy
Dooley. He destroyed the program.
More ignorance. Fulmer did some great things at UT but by the end recruiting was bad, discipline was bad, performance was bad, and all were headed downhill. He left a downright AWFUL roster to Kiffin who then did his "thing". Dooley wasn't the coach to pull the program out of the ditch... but he wasn't the guy who put it there. A couple of fluke plays different in that 2nd year... he might have turned out better... or at least good enough for UT to avoid the Jones mistake.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VolunteerHillbilly
More ignorance. Fulmer did some great things at UT but by the end recruiting was bad, discipline was bad, performance was bad, and all were headed downhill. He left a downright AWFUL roster to Kiffin who then did his "thing". Dooley wasn't the coach to pull the program out of the ditch... but he wasn't the guy who put it there. A couple of fluke plays different in that 2nd year... he might have turned out better... or at least good enough for UT to avoid the Jones mistake.
Hamilton Destroyed the program by Hiring Dooley. Fulmer did some great things? LMAO. Dude won a natty and 2001 & 2004 were the last times UT actually had a contender. You think Fulmer left Kiffin a bad roster? How about the roster Dooley left Jones? Fulmer left Hardesty, Denarius Moore, Crompton, Eric Berry, Dan Williams, Chris Scott, and Luke Stocker. All of those guys were drafted in the NFL. Not to mention good collegiate players like Dennis Rogan, Wes Brown etc. And the infamous Rod Wilks!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KBVol
More ignorance. Fulmer did some great things at UT but by the end recruiting was bad, discipline was bad, performance was bad, and all were headed downhill. He left a downright AWFUL roster to Kiffin who then did his "thing". Dooley wasn't the coach to pull the program out of the ditch... but he wasn't the guy who put it there. A couple of fluke plays different in that 2nd year... he might have turned out better... or at least good enough for UT to avoid the Jones mistake.

Oh how did I forget you were one of Dooley's diehard supporters and always hated Jones?

Just one of your many sage Vol takes. Lmao
 
He is a very knowledge guy. But also has major personality issues. A bit anti social and I have no doubt that the cancellation of the caravan was due to this. If he wins he’ll be fine, but I can’t imagine his cold, lifeless personality will play well for long.
Major personality issues? Tell that to the kids he recruits and the ones who play for him and profess love and respect for the guy.

Also, it doesn’t matter if he has, according to you, a “cold and lifeless personality” if he wins. See: Saban, Nick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Remy
I believe Butch Jokes did more to hurt the program, let it in complete tatters talent and culture-wise.

That said, Mike Hamilton is the biggest culprit for getting us to where we are today imho.....began under his watch over a decade ago.

Yep. Once Dickey was out and Hamilton took over with his penny pinching the decline began.
 
No it's not.

I consider rebuilding to be exactly where Pruitt wants it, and it may take him 5 years to get there, and I believe we can have alot of success between now and then.

I've always found it funny how some folks around here can't help themselves from saying things like "By God if Pruitt doesn't (whatever by whenever) then he's the wrong hire". It's so definitive, but so many variances.

If it takes 5 years to get to 8-9 wins then that is his ceiling, I cannot believe anyone would even argue this.
 
More ignorance. Fulmer did some great things at UT but by the end recruiting was bad, discipline was bad, performance was bad, and all were headed downhill. He left a downright AWFUL roster to Kiffin who then did his "thing". Dooley wasn't the coach to pull the program out of the ditch... but he wasn't the guy who put it there. A couple of fluke plays different in that 2nd year... he might have turned out better... or at least good enough for UT to avoid the Jones mistake.

There is some overlap and shared blame for Fulmer, Kiffin and Dooley but the common thread that links them all together is Hamilton. He should have had a more proactive plan for accountability for Fulmer, should have structured a better contract with Kiffin and shouldn’t have panicked and rushed into the Dooley hire. Probably not fair to blame Hamilton for Hart and Butch but he made so many poor decisions that UT admin encouraged him to leave and then they made another poor and impulsive hire with Hart who hired Butch.
 
Hamilton Destroyed the program by Hiring Dooley. Fulmer did some great things? LMAO. Dude won a natty and 2001 & 2004 were the last times UT actually had a contender.
The program declined and crashed under Fulmer. You can prove that by wins. Points. Competitiveness. Recruiting. Discipline issues.
You think Fulmer left Kiffin a bad roster? How about the roster Dooley left Jones?
Yeah. It is an absolute fact that Fulmer left Kiffin a roster with Crompton and no one else at QB. Hardesty with his bum knees as the only real option at RB. An OL that would start Douglas at OT who probably didn't weigh more than 275 plus the Sullins brothers. There was one legit DT on the roster when he left. Dooley didn't leave a "great" roster but the OL had at least 4 NFL caliber players. He left a couple of stud LB's. Like I said, not good... but you are talking about degrees of crappy. Fulmer put the program there. Not Dooley. Dooley may have been a bad hire but there weren't many "good" hires at that point. It was already screwed up bad.

Fulmer left Hardesty, Denarius Moore, Crompton, Eric Berry, Dan Williams, Chris Scott, and Luke Stocker. All of those guys were drafted in the NFL. Not to mention good collegiate players like Dennis Rogan, Wes Brown etc. And the infamous Rod Wilks!
Hardesty's knees were gone. Crompton? Really? He was a wreck after playing for Fulmer. The others were good to great players... but you're talking about 4 guys.
 
There is some overlap and shared blame for Fulmer, Kiffin and Dooley but the common thread that links them all together is Hamilton. He should have had a more proactive plan for accountability for Fulmer, should have structured a better contract with Kiffin and shouldn’t have panicked and rushed into the Dooley hire. Probably not fair to blame Hamilton for Hart and Butch but he made so many poor decisions that UT admin encouraged him to leave and then they made another poor and impulsive hire with Hart who hired Butch.
I can buy him being a big part of it.... but he didn't coach the football team and Fulmer was "bigger" than the AD at that point. The year before Fulmer was let go... I think he donated $1 million to UT. That's not a coach an AD can screw with very much.
 
Oh how did I forget you were one of Dooley's diehard supporters and always hated Jones?
I wrongly argued that people here shouldn't criticize Dooley publicly until his 3rd year. Unlike you... I admit when proven wrong. I've said it numerous times here... I was wrong for arguing that.

I never "hated" Jones. I just wasn't willing to put blind faith in him.

BTW, I was right on most of the things I speculated concerning Jones based on what's come out since he was fired... things that you and others attacked me over.


Oh... what was your screen name back then? I've had the same name since I started here. Right or wrong... I haven't run from what I've said.

Just one of your many sage Vol takes. Lmao
You are still wrong on almost everything you say here. I never dreamed someone could be as bad as Dobbs4Heisman... but you're pushing him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PEPPERJAX
The program declined and crashed under Fulmer. You can prove that by wins. Points. Competitiveness. Recruiting. Discipline issues. Yeah. It is an absolute fact that Fulmer left Kiffin a roster with Crompton and no one else at QB. Hardesty with his bum knees as the only real option at RB. An OL that would start Douglas at OT who probably didn't weigh more than 275 plus the Sullins brothers. There was one legit DT on the roster when he left. Dooley didn't leave a "great" roster but the OL had at least 4 NFL caliber players. He left a couple of stud LB's. Like I said, not good... but you are talking about degrees of crappy. Fulmer put the program there. Not Dooley. Dooley may have been a bad hire but there weren't many "good" hires at that point. It was already screwed up bad.

Hardesty's knees were gone. Crompton? Really? He was a wreck after playing for Fulmer. The others were good to great players... but you're talking about 4 guys.
There is no question Fulmer was slipping and had to go. What Dooley and Hamilton did to the program was far worse. Dooley Had 3 losing seasons in a row. Biggest blame goes to Hamilton. Later bro good night.
 
If it takes 5 years to get to 8-9 wins then that is his ceiling, I cannot believe anyone would even argue this.

I never argued that. Unless I missed it you're the only one that has said a rebuild = 8-9 wins. He could win 8-9 this year or next, does that mean the rebuild is complete? If 8-9 wins is where he wants it to be, he needs to go now.

I can't believe you don't understand this.
 
There's too many involved to name them all, but I will start with Mike Hamilton and the Haslams. Hammy's failures, combined with the stubbornness of the Haslam regime, followed by the subsequent failures of the next couple AD's got us into this pickle. There are too many factors involved to discuss since then, but mismanagement of the program under their control is how we fell so far so fast.

There's not a coach in the world that could inherit what Pruitt inherited and have instant success.

Mike Hamilton - great person - terrible AD
 
Lol Fulmer?. The program was easily fixable when he was let go. A good coach needed a year to install his system, grab a couple of blue chips and then we're in contention for the east.

Bad timing on the USC deal? Horrible coaching afterwards?
ADs doing the hiring?
Most likely the combo.
But an unsalvageable program in 2008? Lol, no. That's just some people holding a grudge.
 
When Fulmer was fired, our program was not really broke, firing Fulmer is basically what broke our program. In the last six decades, we have finished in the top 10 in wins once, the 1990's (4th). The other decades we were: 19th (1960's); 18th (1970's); 19th (1980's); 20th (2000's); and (71st) 2010-2018. In the "bad" Fulmer years, 2002-2008, we were still 24th, which is pretty near our baseline, it's this decade that has been the disaster. We weren't going to fall much farther under Fulmer, we were due for an uptick, Georgia and Florida both were down in 2010, if we hadn't have gotten so big for our britches and fired Fulmer, Tajh Boyd likely stays committed and we are on the upswing again.

Instead we rolled the dice, when the odds were low to start with that we'd get a better coach than Fulmer, and sure enough, we got burned bad. To make it worse Fulmer was one of our own, and our shoddy treatment of him, coupled with the high expectations and lack of the strong in-state recruiting bases our division rivals have made our job a lot less attractive than many think, as the last several coaching searches have proved. Anyway, I for one am glad he's back and I hope he gets the time to clean up the mess that was made by those who pushed him aside.
 
Last edited:
When Fulmer was fired, our program was not really broke, firing Fulmer is basically what broke our program.
Yeah. It was broke. Go back and look at the roster. Go back and look at the recruiting around the time he was fired. Go back and look at the HORRIBLE program discipline both on and off the field.

By what measure do you claim it was not broken? Cut kept him on life support for a couple of years but when he left again Fulmer was exposed. He made the mistake of letting his personal loyalties override the needs of the program. He tolerated players and coaches who weren't getting it done and when forced hired people who neither complimented him or enjoyed his trust.
 
More ignorance. Fulmer did some great things at UT but by the end recruiting was bad, discipline was bad, performance was bad, and all were headed downhill. He left a downright AWFUL roster to Kiffin who then did his "thing". Dooley wasn't the coach to pull the program out of the ditch... but he wasn't the guy who put it there. A couple of fluke plays different in that 2nd year... he might have turned out better... or at least good enough for UT to avoid the Jones mistake.
Fulmer took it right off the rails.
 
Not sure what we're looking to blame someone for since I'm just going off the title, but I'm gonna say the fanbase, since we're always looking to blame someone for something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WeeohdeeWood

VN Store



Back
Top