Which Team Had More "Talent" On The Field: UT Or MSU?

#27
#27
Big Orange Junky said:
You have to count defense too. Sure we have good offensive talent, but they had more talent on defense.

You would have to go position by postion and I bet MSU would be close or maybe even better counting the whole team.

People were saying the same thing after the Florida game, but when you went position by positionit was Florida by a large margin.

I suspect the talent level will be much different than most of the people in this thread think.
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Not even close. We used our 3rd and 4th string RBs to run it down their throat the second half. Their DL has no pass rush nor depth. MSU will lose 3-4 more games this year. We are vastly superior.
 
#28
#28
Tennessee overall but our weaknesses are much more evident then MSU's. We are flat out terrible at a few positions while MSU is just average across the board except Bumpus, the punter and a couple of defensive guys.
 
#29
#29
Velo Vol said:
??

It's a factor when comparing coaching performances.
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Miss St did nothing in the second half. D Young was playing because the other rb got hurt. His fumble on our own 19 yrd line set up the Miss St. touchdown. Then that last drive Coleman had a pick and dropped it.
 
#30
#30
Talent

QB: Played to a draw, 1st half Russell played lights out
RB: MSU
WR: I want to say UT but MSU's WR outplayed ours
TE: I don't think either team had a catch from a TE
OL: UT

DL: MSU
LB: UT
DBs: MSU
K: draw
P: draw (Palardy did a good job tonight)

return game: UT...I guess, even though the botched kickoff by Rivera canceled out CP's brilliance.


It's a game we could of won, but I don't see why everybody is freaking out. Before the season anybody with half a brain knew this game was a toss-up.
 
#33
#33
PowerT83 said:
Talent

QB: Played to a draw, 1st half Russell played lights out
RB: MSU
WR: I want to say UT but MSU's WR outplayed ours
TE: I don't think either team had a catch from a TE
OL: UT

DL: MSU
LB: UT
DBs: MSU
K: draw
P: draw (Palardy did a good job tonight)

return game: UT...I guess, even though the botched kickoff by Rivera canceled out CP's brilliance.


It's a game we could of won, but I don't see why everybody is freaking out. Before the season anybody with half a brain knew this game was a toss-up.
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We lose every "toss-up" game.
 
#34
#34
UT has a four year trailing recruiting average (using Rivals numbers) of of 12.25. MSU has a four year trailing recruiting average of 34.25. That is a huge difference in talent. Granted, I have not corrected for the attrition from UT's 2009 recruiting class, but even if it was as bad as 98th we should still average the same talent level of MSU.

Here is an interesting problem though: I have tracked a few of these games this year, using recruiting averages as a comparison. Of the upsets, meaning where a team lost who had better talent, MOST were with the biggest disparities in talent. For instance:

Auburn (10), Ole Miss (23.75).
Texas (3.24), Oklahoma (11.25)
W. Virginia (37.25), Texas (3.25)
Vanderbilt (57), Mizzou (35)
Arizona St. (40), Cal (23.25)
Cincinatti (54.5), Virginia Tech (25.25)
UT, MSU (for another instance).

The games that are close in talent, have a much higher chance of turning out where the more talented team wins, in general. It is very odd, and I don't know what to make of it, yet.

I don't know how to explain what happened tonight. I have tried to be objective. I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt when that has been warranted. I just don't know what to do or think anymore.

Here is what I wrote in another thread, and I think it bears repeating:

I am sure we have always seen the movie "Rudy", right?

I am sure that most of us pulled for Rudy, we wanted him to get his shot, he had heart, he had fight, and at the end he got his shot (for one play). We all left the movie theater feeling good.

In hindsight, the problem with the movie Rudy is that it makes you think that if you have heart that just getting a shot is good enough. That heart makes you a winner, regardless of what you actually accomplished. In reality, Rudy was totally inconsequential to the success of the football program, but what a feel good story.

I have tried to be totally objective. I have tried to give a benefit of the doubt. I even think that there are some legitimate factors that could contribute to the first half performance such as Dooley not being on the sideline due to his freak hip injury/surgery.

I really like Dooley, I do. I think he is a stand up man, a man of character, of heart. I think he legitimately wants success, he is doing all that he can. It even hurt me to see him on crutches. I can't bring myself to say "Fire Dooley", but we had the talent to win this game. Nothing ever seems to go right with him on the sidelines. Maybe it isn't his fault, maybe it is just terrible luck, but at some point you have to just say "Rudy, you don't get to dress because you don't contribute to the success of the football program no matter how bad you want it."

That doesn't make a good movie, but it is reality.
 
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#36
#36
If Bray is head and sholders above our other QB' these threads are going to be frustrating for years... I think Bray is pitiful...:rock:
 
#37
#37
When you look at the respective rankings of the recruiting classes that participated in this game, it's UT by a landslide. We had the talent to, and flat out should have won this game...probably handily. But MSU is a well-coached team who came out with a plan and did exactly what they wanted to do. Mullen is doing more with less down there and has that program heading in a good direction. Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind giving the guy a call after Dooley is canned.
 
#39
#39
I know everyone is in a hurry to claim a major talent gap in favor of UT and coaching differential in favor of State, but I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The 2009 recruiting class is the catalyst and the difference in this whole discussion. Someone please add UT's for comparison here, because I believe we are going to find the difference striking(with the attrition that you have had in that class). Italics for those that will likely be drafted and at least get a chance in the NFL...

State's class:
McPhee - starting DE Baltimore Ravens
White - Starting LB Buffalo Bills
Cox - starting DT Philadelphia Eagles

Heavens - solid contributor at WR
Sanders - solid contributor at WR
Slay - starting CB
Perkins - starting RB
Bumphis - starting WR
Jackson - starting LG
Skinner - starting OLB
Boyd - starting NG
Whitley - starting FS
Banks - Starting CB
Smith - Starting WR
Russell - starting QB
Lawrence - starting OLB

If you reranked that class based on production in college, there is just no possible way you could keep it out of the top 10. Which leads me to my next point...
Recruiting rankings in the state of MS are a crapshoot. Kids are too raw, far too undeveloped in HS. Many barely have weight rooms here in highschool and practically zero coaching. Plus, Rivals undervalues State commits and always has. In 4 years, Mullen has played something like 13 true freshmen. We redshirt almost everybody, and that extra year of development allows us to even the playing field.
 
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#40
#40
Offense= Tennessee
Defense= Miss State
Coaching= Miss State
Determination ..Heart= Miss State
Curse= Tennessee?
 
#42
#42
Velo Vol said:
So, Mullen can't recruit?
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So many of you refuse to face reality. Acting like Tennessee had more talent is ridiculous. Tennessee had more talent on offense, State easily had more talent on defense- and to quote one of your own "it wasn't even close"

You can also go to NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

and see that we both have about the same number of players headed for the NFL draft. Recruiting rankings for high school players is cute and all, but it doesnt give you an accurate picture on actual talent. We've had twice as many players drafted the last 2 years than you have- so the laughable notion that you have much more talent than us is completely wrong.

But by all means- keep blaming Dooley instead for that turd of a program he was left.
 
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#43
#43
MSU had the better talent. UT had the players with the higher initial rankings and ratings coming out of high school; but that's not all one has to consider when comparing talent.

Mullen and his staff have done a better job of coaching up the talent they have, so at this point, they're the most talented team... even if they weren't when the kids were just prospects.
 
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#44
#44
UT should have easily had more talent on the field, and I believe the Vols did.

MSU recruited a total of 10 players rated at 4* or above by Rivals in the 2010-2012 recruiting classes (5 in 2010, 1 in 2011, 4 in 2012).

UT recruited 12 players in 2010 at 4*, 12 players in 2011 at 4*, and 10 players in 2012 at 4*.
 
#45
#45
First&Tenn said:
UT should have easily had more talent on the field, and I believe the Vols did.

MSU recruited a total of 10 players rated at 4* or above by Rivals in the 2010-2012 recruiting classes (5 in 2010, 1 in 2011, 4 in 2012).

UT recruited 12 players in 2010 at 4*, 12 players in 2011 at 4*, and 10 players in 2012 at 4*.
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MSU has done a good job developing the talent that they got coming out of HS as their college careers have progressed. UT, not so much. In fact, it appears that some of the talent at UT has actually regressed under the expert tutelage of Dools, et al. Not a good sign for the future, imo.
 
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#46
#46
yes,we had more talent but they played a better game.we gave them 14 points off of idiot mistakes.they were the better team last night.a team can't make the mistakes we made and win the ballgame.we played hard and got back in the game.the def and off made the right adjustments for the 2nd half but it was just to much to overcome.
 
#47
#47
First&Tenn said:
MSU recruited a total of 10 players rated at 4* or above by Rivals in the 2010-2012 recruiting classes (5 in 2010, 1 in 2011, 4 in 2012).

UT recruited 12 players in 2010 at 4*, 12 players in 2011 at 4*, and 10 players in 2012 at 4*.
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Interesting. Heard Bob Kessling say last night that MSU fans think they can contend for the SEC West.

Really?
 
#48
#48
I saw this same question posted after the FL and GA losses. It's always the same answer,UT. For a team that has more talent than any other school in the SEC they are getting their a$$es kicked alot.
 
#49
#49
wolfe said:
I saw this same question posted after the FL and GA losses. It's always the same answer,UT. For a team that has more talent than any other school in the SEC they are getting their a$$es kicked alot.
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There is no way possible that UT had better talent than either UGA or UF. UF recruits around top five classes every year. UGA hovers around top 10. UT is at about the 12-13 average, and that doesn't include accounting for the mass attrition from the 2009 class.

I can't believe that anyone who looked at the rosters, the recruits or the recruiting services could have believed that UT was more talented than either of those teams.
 
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