Where Will the Vols Finish on Rivals? #2

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DiderotsGhost

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Today, I decided to take a look at the Rivals formula a bit more closely and see where the Vols might finish in the final Rivals recruiting rankings. In a sense, this doesn't matter too much, because we have a great recruiting class one way or another, and our final Rivals ranking is sort of irrelevant. But in another sense, we've sucked for 4 straight seasons, and even if it's meaningless, I want us to get a "small victory" and finish in the top 5 on Rivals.

First off, it should be pointed out that Rivals factors in both quantity and quality more so than any other recruiting service. Their formula only counts the top 20 prospects. This means that one short-cut method to trying to figure out the future Rivals rankings is to look at average recruit ranking, rather than absolute ranking. For instance, LSU is currently ranked #15, but they only have 15 recruits thus far and the average star ranking of 3.67 is #6. So, we can probably assume that LSU will move up a bit closer to #6 (at least top 10) when all is said and done.

The average star ranking generally works pretty well, but has one big issue for this exercise: UT is so far ahead of most schools on quantity, that it's difficult to compare. The "average recruit ranking" tends to work very well when you're comparing a school with 16 recruits to a school with 13 or 18, but what about a school with 34 recruits compared to a school with 17? At that point, it's a less reliable metric.

Tennessee's average star ranking is now at 3.61, which makes it #9 overall. Its points rating is #2 overall. Based simply on this, we would assume UT finishes somewhere between #2 and #9, but where?

For comparison purposes, here are the 10 schools based on average star ranking and # of recruits:

1. Alabama 3.83, 23 recruits
2. Georgia 3.75, 16 recruits
3. Ohio State 3.71, 17 recruits
4. Notre Dame 3.68, 19 recruits
5. Auburn 3.68, 19 recruits
6. LSU 3.67, 15 recruits
7. USC 3.67, 12 recruits
8. Texas A&M 3.63, 19 recruits
9. Tennessee 3.61, 34 recruits
10. Florida 3.61, 18 recruits

While we're ranked #9 on this, you can also see that we have WAY more recruits than everyone else, which means our average star rating might be a bit more distorted due to the huge quantity. Let's factor that out and only look at UT's top 20 recruits. If we do that, Tennessee's average star rating jumps all the way to 4.0! That's higher than everyone other team on the list, and remember, this rating is only distorted for the teams with more than 20 recruits (since only the top 20 count!).

There's only one team on the list that could possibly beat us and that's Alabama. If we only take the top 20 for Alabama, their average star rating is 3.95. This, of course, might jump up a bit more by February, but for now, our average star rating is higher than Bama's on this metric!

While the star ratings are interesting, Rivals uses a slightly different measure for their ranking. It's called the "Rivals rating." The top Rivals rating is 6.1 and corresponds to 5 stars. Rivals ratings between 5.8 - 6.0 correspond to 4 stars. In essence, this is similar to the star rating, but more precise. On average Rivals rating for the top 20 recruits, UT comes in at 5.87, while Alabama is at 5.89. Alabama beats us slightly, but it seems unlikely that any other school would beat us given our massive lead on the star rating.

Rivals points formula is a bit more confusing. Points are allocated based on the Rivals ratings for the top 20 recruits, but they also have bonus points for the top 250 overall recruits. Right now, Alabama has 2,936 points while Tennessee has 2,602. Alabama's significant lead is likely the result of their success with more of the top 250 recruits.

While we trail Alabama, we are quite a bit ahead of every other school. Texas A&M is currently ranked #3 with 2,275 points and 19 recruits. It's possible that another team (A&M, Ohio State, LSU, or Georgia) could make a big run in the next two months and beat us, but it will be difficult.

Based on all of this, it looks like UT is a lock for the top 5. It also appears that the most probable final ranking will be #2 or #3. Not too shabby! Even if another school makes a run, we're still probably no worse than #3 or #4. (LSU has an impressive list of prospects, so they might be the best candidate to pass us.)

As I said in the intro, our final recruiting ranking doesn't matter too much , but it does feel good to know we are on track for what likely seems a top 3 class. And if you were to base rankings based on the needs of each team, I think we're #1.

Go Butch!
 
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#2
#2
Good post. Rivals should use the average star rating of the top 20 since they only count the top 20.
 
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#4
#4
While we are nearly full, a lot of schools aren't. There are a lot of four and five star players still uncommitted that could bump alot of schools up. I bet we finish top 10 but I doubt we hold on to #2 in the end.
 
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#6
#6
While we are nearly full, a lot of schools aren't. There are a lot of four and five star players still uncommitted that could bump alot of schools up. I bet we finish top 10 but I doubt we hold on to #2 in the end.

The most exciting part about this class to me is the volume, which is not fully taken into the rankings.

35 talented guys (20+ on D) into a roster short on depth and talent significantly expedites the turnaround. This is basically 1.5 years of recruiting!
 
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#8
#8
There will be a lot of fluidity between position #2-8 once we get into middle of January. Right now if we pick up another Rivals 250 player, like Scott, I'd say that should secure our #2 spot, but I would not feel confident in a #2 finish unless we landed Adoree Jackson. Just not realistic.

LSU, Auburn, OSU, Florida and maybe Georgia will all pick up steam late. Today we saw Florida who jumped from outside the top 15 to #9 with their two commitments. My guess is we'll finish #3.
 
#10
#10
While we are nearly full, a lot of schools aren't. There are a lot of four and five star players still uncommitted that could bump alot of schools up. I bet we finish top 10 but I doubt we hold on to #2 in the end.

True, but don't underestimate just how strong our class is right now. Assuming we can hold onto everybody, it'll be difficult for any team, other than Alabama, to surpass us on average Rivals rating for the top 20 recruits. We're loaded with 4 star guys.

The only way other teams could catch up: land a bunch of top 100 guys. Since Rivals hands out bonus points for the highest rated players, that would give a team a big boost. But might not be enough to catch up with our depth. But there's really only maybe four or five schools that could even feasibly make a run big enough to matter: LSU, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas A&M, and Notre Dame.

I'd actually peg LSU as the team having the best odds at a big run. They are in good shape with Leonard Fournette (#3), Tony Brown (#18), Adoree Jackson (#6), Speedy Noil (#34), Malachi Dupre (#15), and a few other top 250 recruits. If they landed 5-6 of those guys, they could pass us.

So maybe #3 or #4 is more realistic than #2, but I don't see us falling out of the top 5. There's only so many top 100 guys and most of the schools behind us are going to have to land 3-4 more of them to have a shot at passing us.
 
#12
#12
There will be a lot of fluidity between position #2-8 once we get into middle of January. Right now if we pick up another Rivals 250 player, like Scott, I'd say that should secure our #2 spot, but I would not feel confident in a #2 finish unless we landed Adoree Jackson. Just not realistic.

LSU, Auburn, OSU, Florida and maybe Georgia will all pick up steam late. Today we saw Florida who jumped from outside the top 15 to #9 with their two commitments. My guess is we'll finish #3.

#3 is pretty reasonable.

LSU is the team most likely to make a run IMO. Wouldn't be shocked if they picked up another 5-6 top 250 guys and passed us.

I don't expect Auburn or Florida to pass us. Georgia and OSU maybe --- but I'd say the odds favor us.
 
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#13
#13
I'm just glad the conversation isn't who we can pass, but who has the best chance to pass us. Meaning we aren't playing catch up, we aren't putting all our hopes into a few "big fish." We've recruited solidly and should expect to finish with a very strong class.
 
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#14
#14
While we are nearly full, a lot of schools aren't. There are a lot of four and five star players still uncommitted that could bump alot of schools up. I bet we finish top 10 but I doubt we hold on to #2 in the end.


I bet we can kiss the top 20 goodbye......oops.......wrong thread.
 
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#17
#17
Any easier way to think of it for those statistically challenged is this.
1. Average rating per recruit is absolutely useless, unless the school gets 20 or less.
2. It is the average of the Top 20 recruits for each team sort of, so the Vols currently have a 4.00 star average (2-5 star, 16-4 star, and 2-3 star)
3. Alabama is the only team with a higher average on their top 20
4. Any team that wants to beat TN will have to average better than 4.00 or greater if we add any more 4 or 5 stars (only two or three teams in a perfect recruiting scenario could do this)
Personally, I think one school will and we will be a consensus #3 class
 
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#20
#20
Top 2 will 100% not happen. I think we will finish 5th. 6th is very possible as well. 4th and 7th are longshots.

Here are my probabilities:

1-2: <.1%
3: 2%
4: 10%
5: 40%
6: 35%
7: 10%
8-Up: 3%

Obviously it depends on the decisions of high school students, so it can't be exact.
I have a pretty good feel for the Rivals rankings.
 
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#21
#21
Top 2 will 100% not happen. I think we will finish 5th. 6th is very possible as well. 4th and 7th are longshots.

Here are my probabilities:

1-2: <.1%
3: 2%
4: 10%
5: 45%
6: 35%
7: 15%
8-Up: 3%

Obviously it depends on the decisions of high school students, so it can't be exact.
I have a pretty good feel for the Rivals rankings.

You might take note that your percentages add up to 110%.

Mathematically speaking, unless we lose a few prospects (which is possible), it's highly unlikely that we'd fall below #5. There's certainly not a 53% chance (albeit out of 110%) that this would happen. More realistic odds:

#1: 0.1%
#2: 30%
#3: 35%
#4: 20%
#5: 10%
Below #5: 4.9%
 
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#22
#22
While we are nearly full, a lot of schools aren't. There are a lot of four and five star players still uncommitted that could bump alot of schools up. I bet we finish top 10 but I doubt we hold on to #2 in the end.

That's the thing.

Bama won't move much because they're recruited well over the last 4 years and have 23. I don't know their roster, but they can't have much more room.

TAMU has 19 right now but signed some 33 kids last year. They don't have a lot of growth.

FSU has 24. Same situation as Bama.

Miami has 27. They're a bit like us in they've had attrition and small class issues but I don't think they have much upward movement.

The next schools are the ones with the biggest upward movement possibilities:

OSU 17
ND 19
Auburn 19
Florida 18
Georgia 16

The question is... can they sign enough kids to give their rivals ranking an average of 4*? This is also assuming UT doesn't reel in Bookser (4*) or Jackson (5*) which would bump 1 or 2 3* guys (we only have 2 in our top 20) out and further increase our "top 20 players" class?

I honestly don't think so. With 2 5*, 16 4* and 2 3* that's hard to overcome even for a Georgia, Florida or Auburn.

3.61* with 34 commits is unreal. Huge class.
 
#23
#23
I think we end up at 4th or 5th. LSU is going to end up either 2nd or 1st depending in who they end up with. They are going to get Garrett and other big time recruits like Fournette, Dupree, Noil and Tony Brown are high on LSU. Unfortunately there is no possible way we can hold on to #2.

Finishing 4th or 5th in recruiting in Butchs second season, with our record is impressive and we should be happy with that.
 
#24
#24
You might take note that your percentages add up to 110%.

Mathematically speaking, unless we lose a few prospects (which is possible), it's highly unlikely that we'd fall below #5. There's certainly not a 53% chance (albeit out of 110%) that this would happen. More realistic odds:

#1: 0.1%
#2: 30%
#3: 35%
#4: 20%
#5: 10%
Below #5: 4.9%

Damn, I changed one number, and not the other.

However, you are wrong about being close to a lock in the Top 5.

Alabama and LSU will finish 1 and 2 by a wide margin (Both over 3000 points). Behind them, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Texas A&M, Tennessee, and Ohio State will all make a push to finish in the top 5. Notre Dame and Auburn will probably be on the outside looking in.

I personally think we finish 5th, but it isn't a slam dunk by any means.
 
#25
#25
I think we end up at 4th or 5th. LSU is going to end up either 2nd or 1st depending in who they end up with. They are going to get Garrett and other big time recruits like Fournette, Dupree, Noil and Tony Brown are high on LSU. Unfortunately there is no possible way we can hold on to #2.

Finishing 4th or 5th in recruiting in Butchs second season, with our record is impressive and we should be happy with that.

Don't get ahead of yourself here.
 

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