Where is the next Kamara?

[BeecherVol]

One of Dooley's most accurate lines... "Some guys' first instinct is to run or fight. Raijon's is to take a nap."

He did provide a good one on occasion.

 

[BeecherVol]

For 2016 Hurd, yeah.

But in 2015, Hurd had his fair share of runs where he made something out of nothing too. His game against UF in 2015 was one of the best I've seen a RB have for UT in quite some time. There were a number of times defenders should've had him down for a loss and he turned it into an 8-10 yard rush.


Kamara is definitely more dynamic, but Hurd's 2015 season was nothing to write off either. His value as a pass blocker was huge with the OL struggles that year as well.


In 2016 you could tell he didn't have his heart in it, though.

Hard to disagree with any of this.
Hurd ran behind some of the worst OLs Ive personally watched at UT.

Both backs are very different. Hurd produced well for a guy that didn't fit the scheme as well as Alvin.

 

[BeecherVol]

Great decision by Jones if true. Let's play the guy who gets 4 yards per touch over the guy who gets 7 yards per touch because the guy who gets 7 yards per touch fumbled 5 times, or once every 57 touches, during his 2 seasons at Tennessee. Makes sense. Especially since I can recall 3-4 fumbles from Hurd as well.

Eh. Both can work out and did. Kamara needed more touches but it wasn't because Hurd wasn't productive and valuable.

You don't have to piss on Hurds play to prove anything about Alvin.

 

[KBVol]

Eh. Both can work out and did. Kamara needed more touches but it wasn't because Hurd wasn't productive and valuable.

You don't have to piss on Hurds play to prove anything about Alvin.

Just think AK was the better athlete and running back and better fit for Jones' offense....and as such, should've gotten much more involvement in the offense. Hurd has his value, but his ceiling was much lower imo. Despite all those carries, he never showed explosion and breakaway ability and I firmly believe Kamara would've given us more than Hurd was capable of had he been given more opportunity

 

[46yrvol]

Offensive line play being lacking was the main reason Hurd carried so much of the load. He was the one that could take the punishment.

We also need to realize how loaded the backfield really was. Between Hurd, Kamara, Kelly and Dobbs, any of the players could and did give you 100+ yrd games.

btw, Kelly's 6.4 ypc was the highest of the running backs.

 

[BeecherVol]

Just think AK was the better athlete and running back and better fit for Jones' offense....and as such, should've gotten much more involvement in the offense. Hurd has his value, but his ceiling was much lower imo. Despite all those carries, he never showed explosion and breakaway ability and I firmly believe Kamara would've given us more than Hurd was capable of had he been given more opportunity

I don't disagree.

I just don't see where some need to minimize Hurd to make Alvin better. Hurd was pretty damn good regardless of a poor decision to walk away. Many forget UT was flat terrible up front his first 2 years and just slightly better his last.

I think UT was better with both specifically at the same time if used properly. And that included Alvin touching the ball more.

 

[BeecherVol]

I think Kamara was more valuable as a catch threat out of the backfield than as a 20 rush attempt guy.

For a season

 

[46yrvol]

Stats tell an interesting tale. When the offense ran with Kamara and Kelly as the one and two with Dobbs in the backfield, offensive production increased by about 200 yrds. per game.

Tam 684
Kentucky 599
Mizzo 609
vandy 516
Neb 521

In no other game did we reach the 500 yrd mark

 

[KBVol]

I don't disagree.

I just don't see where some need to minimize Hurd to make Alvin better. Hurd was pretty damn good regardless of a poor decision to walk away. Many forget UT was flat terrible up front his first 2 years and just slightly better his last.

I think UT was better with both specifically at the same time if used properly. And that included Alvin touching the ball more.

I think Hurd was a solid SEC running back with average speed and poor running instincts. Didn't have gamebreaking ability. Was very good in pass pro and had outstanding hands for a running back, which is why I believe he now plans on switching to TE (or WR...don't see that personally).

I thought we were getting a physical freak when he signed, a legit 5-star player, but that just didn't pan out, that's not what he is. I thought we were getting another Eric Dickerson....instead, we got a poor man's Eddie George. That's my honest opinion. If that's minimizing Hurd then so be it.

That said, it has nothing to do with AK, separate issue....AK was simply a more dynamic, more explosive playmaker than Hurd who rarely got the opportunity to get in any rhythm and showcase it....until TAM 2016, and now we know that based on even that little bit of exposure, the NFL believes he's a first round talent, while Hurd is on no one's radar. Just is what it is.

 

[JFreak]

Stats tell an interesting tale. When the offense ran with Kamara and Kelly as the one and two with Dobbs in the backfield, offensive production increased by about 200 yrds. per game.

Tam 684
Kentucky 599
Mizzo 609
vandy 516
Neb 521

In no other game did we reach the 500 yrd mark

There's more to the story..

 

[KBVol]

There's more to the story..

Fill us in.

 

[Biopsyman]

Very few Albert Camero's out there

 

[JFreak]

Fill us in.

Can start by looking at quality of opponent's D as well as the degradation of our D as the season went on.

 

[BeecherVol]

I think Hurd was a solid SEC running back with average speed and poor running instincts. Didn't have gamebreaking ability. Was very good in pass pro and had outstanding hands for a running back, which is why I believe he now plans on switching to TE (or WR...don't see that personally).

I thought we were getting a physical freak when he signed, a legit 5-star player, but that just didn't pan out, that's not what he is. I thought we were getting another Eric Dickerson....instead, we got a poor man's Eddie George. That's my honest opinion. If that's minimizing Hurd then so be it.

That said, it has nothing to do with AK, separate issue....AK was simply a more dynamic, more explosive playmaker than Hurd who rarely got the opportunity to get in any rhythm and showcase it....until TAM 2016, and now we know that based on even that little bit of exposure, the NFL believes he's a first round talent, while Hurd is on no one's radar. Just is what it is.

Well disagree, to a degree.

 

[BeecherVol]

Can start by looking at quality of opponent's D as well as the degradation of our D as the season went on.

We may actually agree on something.

Blue moon.

 

[KBVol]

Can start by looking at quality of opponent's D as well as the degradation of our D as the season went on.

You mean like App State and Ohio? Neither were exactly monsters of the midway, nobody would mention them in the same breath as your typical SEC defense.

Did Hurd ever have anything close to a 290 total yard, 3 td game vs an SEC opponent like AK did vs TAM? Nah, not even close, never came within 100 yards of it despite all those touches, all that offensive focus built around him.

And what does our poor defensive play have to do with anything here? Find the correlation.

 

[KBVol]

Well disagree, to a degree.

About?

 

[BeecherVol]

About?

No need to get into anymore detail really.

You make some good points. No as much on some others.

 

[46yrvol]

Can start by looking at quality of opponent's D as well as the degradation of our D as the season went on.

That is a consideration but the other line ups had less than stellar defenses also. APP ST.(309), Ohio(404), SC(294)Ga(357) best game being Fl with 498 yds and I don,t think it useful to include Bama (being so decimated against the num..ah...er..former number one team) or tenn tech Also we played Ta&m when they were still unbeaten and still playing good ball. And say what you may about vandy, the one thing that they did have with Derek Mason is they played stout enough defense for 516 yds being your bad day at the office to still be impressive.

But the point I,m trying to make is not just about personnel but chemistry. This offense seems to be built for speed.

BTW, does having a weaker defense keep your offense off the field longer?

 

[felloffthetrain]

I did not interpret the original post to be restricted to running backs, so I would include Tyler Byrd as a mention in this discussion, as he has some explosive speed and is of a solid build -- 195? -- to break a tackle or two. He could have explosive runs from the slot, end-arounds, and take screen passes for extra yds.

I am sure I'm gonna get, yeah, well we didn't see too much of that last year. But remember he was a true freshman and into to SEC football can be a shock to a young kid.

Let's see how he does with this second year, more knowledge of playbook, more confidence, less hesitation, maybe a bit more muscle. We'll see.

You're forgetting to mention Byrd catches everything thrown to him. I was impressed with his catch ability. I'm sure he had some drops last season, but I never saw them

 

[TNnative]

Yeah it's like they forgot how easily Kamara would go down if someone touched him. Kamara was good, but he wasn't as great as everyone in this thread is making him seem.

I can name one way Kamara was great.

HE DIDN'T QUIT!!!

 

[81Orange]

Was Kamara the most underused talented player in Vols football history? Yes. Not only was it sickening to witness, it was coaching malpractice at the highest level.

And everyone knows Hurd was the worst back in UT history. It's a wonder he could get his shoes on.

Kamara is a special talent. He was here two years and developed over that time. He was not the best back on the team year one, Hurd was. So give the coaches a break for year one.

In year two Kamara was the better back. If Hurd were trying would Kamara have been that much better? If Hurd had played hard and set the all time career rushing record Kamara would be here for the 2017 season. Wouldn't that be nice? Perhaps there was a plan.

Kelly may have had a better argument for playing time than Kamara. We had the nice problem of having too many play makers. Several players didn't get enough touches.

I ageee Hurd should have been benched earlier. What was going on there? When did he stop giving full effort.

 

[Remy]

You're forgetting to mention Byrd catches everything thrown to him. I was impressed with his catch ability. I'm sure he had some drops last season, but I never saw them

Last year when we had a kid with hot hands catching most everything thrown his way, we had to outsmart our opposition and then move their production to kids who dropped about as many as they caught in <cough> <cough> Smith and Wolf who continued to amaze us with dropping about as many as they caught. Difficult to square this with the philosophies of Bama and Clemson for example who continued to throw week in and week out to their kids over and over again who actually would catch more than they dropped. Amazing how that works, right??? I guess you have to keep throwing to Smith after all he has a "hot" girlfriend, some of you guys must have never dated any 10s in your life. Take off those "I Grok for Spock" shirts and actually date a female for cryin' out loud!! lol

 

[KBVol]

And everyone knows Hurd was the worst back in UT history. It's a wonder he could get his shoes on.

Kamara is a special talent. He was here two years and developed over that time. He was not the best back on the team year one, Hurd was. So give the coaches a break for year one.

In year two Kamara was the better back. If Hurd were trying would Kamara have been that much better? If Hurd had played hard and set the all time career rushing record Kamara would be here for the 2017 season. Wouldn't that be nice? Perhaps there was a plan.

Kelly may have had a better argument for playing time than Kamara. We had the nice problem of having too many play makers. Several players didn't get enough touches.

I ageee Hurd should have been benched earlier. What was going on there? When did he stop giving full effort.

I disagree. I think Kamara was the better back, the better RB fit for our offense the moment he stepped on campus.

Recall the first game of 2015, vs Bowling Green. Hurd had 123 yds on 23 carries, AK had 144 on 15 carries. What does that prove?....probably not a ton, was just one game vs a lowly opponent, nothing really definitive (even though AK averaged nearly twice the yards per carry behind the same OL in the same offense), other than we likely had a 2-headed monster and at the least, going forward, the carry distribution should look probably similar, if not more touches for the obviously more dynamic player, Kamara.

Yet what happened the next week vs Oklahoma? Hurd had 24 carries, Kamara 4. How about 2 weeks later at Florida?....it was Hurd 28, Kamara 5....that's ridiculous.

So, why? I've heard some say that Hurd got more playing time because he was so good in pass protection, and that AK was struggling picking it up. That's credible to a point, I get it. But we were hardly airing it out with the passing game. Iirc, our offensive run/pass ratio was close to 65% run, 35% pass, so we're running the ball nearly 2/3 of the time.....and Hurd got 80% of the carries. Why? No pass protection needed all those plays and Hurd was getting the ball 8 of 10 times, doesn't make sense.

Hurd averaged 4.05 yards per carry those two key, pivotal games and AK was persona non grata per Butch and Debord. Hard to see where it was all football-related Imo.

As far as when Hurd stopped giving full effort, it wasn't until the Georgia game, 5th week/game. And through those 5 games, he was averaging all of 4.03 yards per carry and, had he not quit and stopped giving effort, he'd have continued getting the carries he'd always gotten imo. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

No doubt in my mind that the politics of trying to keep your star in state recruit and partial face of the franchise happy/quiet/placated was at play here, and it kept Hurd on the field, despite what was so obvious to so many....that the better RB was standing on the sideline way too much for the wrong reasons.

 

[Remy]

I disagree. I think Kamara was the better back, the better RB fit for our offense the moment he stepped on campus.

Recall the first game of 2015, vs Bowling Green. Hurd had 123 yds on 23 carries, AK had 144 on 15 carries. What does that prove?....probably not a ton, was just one game vs a lowly opponent, nothing really definitive (even though AK averaged nearly twice the yards per carry behind the same OL in the same offense), other than we likely had a 2-headed monster and at the least, going forward, the carry distribution should look probably similar, if not more touches for the obviously more dynamic player, Kamara.

Yet what happened the next week vs Oklahoma? Hurd had 24 carries, Kamara 4. How about 2 weeks later at Florida?....it was Hurd 28, Kamara 5....that's ridiculous.

So, why? I've heard some say that Hurd got more playing time because he was so good in pass protection, and that AK was struggling picking it up. That's credible to a point, I get it. But we were hardly airing it out with the passing game. Iirc, our offensive run/pass ratio was close to 65% run, 35% pass, so we're running the ball nearly 2/3 of the time.....and Hurd got 80% of the carries. Why? No pass protection needed all those plays and Hurd was getting the ball 8 of 10 times, doesn't make sense.

Hurd averaged 4.05 yards per carry those two key, pivotal games and AK was persona non grata per Butch and Debord. Hard to see where it was all football-related Imo.

As far as when Hurd stopped giving full effort, it wasn't until the Georgia game, 5th week/game. And through those 5 games, he was averaging all of 4.03 yards per carry and, had he not quit and stopped giving effort, he'd have continued getting the carries he'd always gotten imo. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

No doubt in my mind that the politics of trying to keep your star in state recruit and partial face of the franchise happy/quiet/placated was at play here, and it kept Hurd on the field, despite what was so obvious to so many....that the better RB was standing on the sideline way too much for the wrong reasons.

In hindsight, I totally agree with this KB. I'm not sure CBJ had experience dealing with national high profile prima donnas, did everything he could to placate one in Hurd to the detriment of himself and his responsibilities. I hope he learned his lesson, appeasing a prima donna like Hurd, hurts the prima donna, the appeaser, and ultimately the whole team.