Where did life begin? (Merged)

[Orangeslice13]

Paul was writing to a Jewish audience, speaking specifically to the Jewish Torah. In Romans 2, he said that the law (Torah) was given to Israel and gentiles were given their conscience so that both equally deserve the condemnation that their sin earns.



Paul LITERALLY just said that sin is more than breaking the Torah!

Paul was writing to a group of Jewish believers, trying to get them to understand the purpose of the Levitical law, which was to prove the one under it guilty. He would go on to proclaim that we no longer be slaves to sin, nor slaves to the law, but to instead walk by the Spirit, just as He said in Galatians.

Walk by the Spirit and you won't need the law. Bear the fruits of the Spirit and you won't need the law. As John said, love your brother and there is no stumbling or lawlessness.

Romans does say Sin is more than breaking the Torah.....but breaking the Torah is still Sin.

Again we’re talking by what standard should Yeshuas followers live not how do you get in.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Let me put it another way.
The vs you quoted from peter says the ignorant twist Paul’s words to their distruction. He didn’t say stupid...he said ignorant or unlearned in some versions. Peter is saying that if you don’t study Torah you likely won’t understand Paul

Wait. What? That's not at all what he said. He was writing to Jewish Christians that had been studying Torah all their lives and reassuring them that even though Paul's writings were hard for them to accept, they should accept his writings as scripture.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Romans does say Sin is more than breaking the Torah.....but breaking the Torah is still Sin.

Again we’re talking by what standard should Yeshuas followers live not how do you get in.

And I gave it because He gave it. Love.

Fight and kick it all you want. Love God. Love others. "You'll be known as my disciples by your love..."

His words. His standard.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Romans does say Sin is more than breaking the Torah.....but breaking the Torah is still Sin.

Again we’re talking by what standard should Yeshuas followers live not how do you get in.

And PS. You're the one that brought up Romans.

 

[Orange_Crush]

So I have a neighbor (this is a real example). His business practices are unethical at best. Cheats on his wife. And spends a lot of time telling me how in love with God He is. His favorite words are freedom in Christ. Talks a real good game too.
We can’t judge his heart cause only God knows right?

He's showing love for neither God, nor others.

I know this guy who claims to observe the Torah but gets mad and calls his neighbor a piece of ****. He thinks He's honoring Jesus, who said the standard is love, and he'll be known as Jesus' disciple by his love for others.

Funny, huh?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Yes. He is.



His standard has always been love. He gave the law to Israel to show them that they fail it.

But it has always been love. He never changed just His dealing with us when we received His Son and Spirit. He took us out from under the tutor (law) and placed us in His power.

You’re getting closer.
You’re wrong that God changed his mind about the purpose of the law but you’re getting closer.
After all you are grafted in to the promise....but I digress.

Quick question though

Messiah says that on the day that everyone sees the desolation spoken of by Daniel you should run for the hills and pray that your flight not be on the sabbath.
If the law wasn’t important anymore. If you no longer have to keep sabbath (I said have because some seem to think that it’s a burden) then why would Messiah think it would be an issue for his people?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Wait. What? That's not at all what he said. He was writing to Jewish Christians that had been studying Torah all their lives and reassuring them that even though Paul's writings were hard for them to accept, they should accept his writings as scripture.

He’s answering those who complain that Paul is teaching gentiles against the law.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You’re getting closer.
You’re wrong that God changed his mind about the purpose of the law but you’re getting closer.
After all you are grafted in to the promise....but I digress.

Quick question though

Messiah says that on the day that everyone sees the desolation spoken of by Daniel you should run for the hills and pray that your flight not be on the sabbath.
If the law wasn’t important anymore. If you no longer have to keep sabbath (I said have because some seem to think that it’s a burden) then why would Messiah think it would be an issue for his people?

Because everyone who was saved will have been raptured and the tribulation will be against Israel--i.e. observant Jews who will think they still need to be keeping the law.

 

[Orangeslice13]

And I gave it because He gave it. Love.

Fight and kick it all you want. Love God. Love others. "You'll be known as my disciples by your love..."

His words. His standard.

Uuuuhhhh nobody is fighting or kicking.
His words were also that the law would not pass till the end of all things so....

 

[Orangeslice13]

And PS. You're the one that brought up Romans.

Clearly your not reading it the same way I am.
I used to be you.
You’ll get there

 

[Orange_Crush]

He’s answering those who complain that Paul is teaching gentiles against the law.

He's having to tell those Jews that Paul is scripture. He never said anything about having to study Torah to understand Paul. He said that Paul was hard for Jewish Christians to accept, but they should.

This is the same Peter that God told to eat from the lowered sheet of unlawful food, by the way.

 

[Orangeslice13]

He's showing love for neither God, nor others.

I know this guy who claims to observe the Torah but gets mad and calls his neighbor a piece of ****. He thinks He's honoring Jesus, who said the standard is love, and he'll be known as Jesus' disciple by his love for others.

Funny, huh?

I agree.
It’s both.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I agree.
It’s both.

We always begin and end at the place where we can agree to disagree.

i do love you, slice, and hope that I can take you up on that meet-up offer, if I haven't ruined it today.

Peace and blessings, my friend.

 

[Orangeslice13]

And I gave it because He gave it. Love.

Fight and kick it all you want. Love God. Love others. "You'll be known as my disciples by your love..."

His words. His standard.

He said that love G-d. And love your neighbors as yourself. This is the foundation.......the law and the prophets hangs on.

All you need is Love is actually the beetles.

 

[Orangeslice13]

He's having to tell those Jews that Paul is scripture. He never said anything about having to study Torah to understand Paul. He said that Paul was hard for Jewish Christians to accept, but they should.

This is the same Peter that God told to eat from the lowered sheet of unlawful food, by the way.

And peter said that vision was about people not food.

 

[Orangeslice13]

We always begin and end at the place where we can agree to disagree.

i do love you, slice, and hope that I can take you up on that meet-up offer, if I haven't ruined it today.

Peace and blessings, my friend.

Naw
We’re good.
Shalom

 

[Orange_Crush]

And peter said that vision was about people not food.

Peter never, ever said that the vision wasn't about food.

 

[Septic]

Clearly your not reading it the same way I am.
I used to be you.
You’ll get there

Lol, brutal.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Peter never, ever said that the vision wasn't about food.

*******peter doesn’t understand the vision and then gets the vision explaining it*********

17. Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.


*******peter explains the vision to others*******

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.



Note..it’s not unlawful to keep company with non Jews. That’s tradition added by men. In the vision G-d is using something that is unlawful to point out to peter that adding things to the law is just as bad as taking away.

Imo dietary restrictions are given because eating those things is not healthy. It’s not because G-d doesn’t like the taste of pork. The law was given to be a blessing. Messiah didn’t come to make rats lizards and pork a suddenly healthy alternative.

Saying Peters vision removes dietary restrictions is adding thoughts to scripture that just are not there

 

[BigO95]

*******peter doesn’t understand the vision and then gets the vision explaining it*********

17. Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.


*******peter explains the vision to others*******

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.



Note..it’s not unlawful to keep company with non Jews. That’s tradition added by men. In the vision G-d is using something that is unlawful to point out to peter that adding things to the law is just as bad as taking away.

Imo dietary restrictions are given because eating those things is not healthy. It’s not because G-d doesn’t like the taste of pork. The law was given to be a blessing. Messiah didn’t come to make rats lizards and pork a suddenly healthy alternative.

Saying Peters vision removes dietary restrictions is adding thoughts to scripture that just are not there

1 Timothy 4:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
You're welcome! Now you can eat those tasty morsels of bacon! :crazy:

 

[Vol8188]

I challenge you to check out Professor Riplingers video that I posted. Its great information and you may learn something.

How do you reconcile the fact that most of mark chapter 16 was a later addition not actually written by mark. How do you reconcile that with your views on the perfection of the KJV and God's word?

 

[BigO95]

How do you reconcile the fact that most of mark chapter 16 was a later addition not actually written by mark. How do you reconcile that with your views on the perfection of the KJV and God's word?

Are you saying that Mark 16 isn't in the majority text? It is in the Majority text. What Greek text are you studying?
Did you watch Professor Riplingers video?

 

[Orangeslice13]

1 Timothy 4:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
You're welcome! Now you can eat those tasty morsels of bacon! :crazy:

Pork rats and lizards are not meats given by God and are never called food.

 

[Vol8188]

Are you saying that Mark 16 isn't in the majority text? It is in the Majority text. What Greek text are you studying?
Did you watch Professor Riplingers video?

You're missing the point. It was clearly added after the fact. Which is why it's not in the 4th century texts but is in many after. Which further proves it was a later addition.

If something was added after the fact it could easily become present in the majority of texts. Why would you consider a majority to be more important than something closer to the original work (an older text)?

 

[Vol8188]

1 Timothy 4:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
You're welcome! Now you can eat those tasty morsels of bacon! :crazy:

Since you take a literal approach to this, and intestinal parasites are creatures of god, is it good to eat them?