When Johnny Majors left Pitt...

[FlipsideRunner]

I'm watching Pitt vs. UGA in the 1977 Sugar Bowl on ESPN Classic. Of course Pitt was playing for a National Championship in this game. Keith Jackson has mentioned a couple a couple of times during the broadcast that this was Majors' last game at Pitt and he was heading to Tennessee. I wasn't born until '78 so I wasn't around for this. I had no idea he decided to leave Pitt before this game. Now the last couple of years there have been several coaches leave before bowl games and get ripped for doing so. If a coach announced he was going to leave right before his team played in a NC game now he would be crucified. For those of you who are old enough to remember, what was the reaction nationally over Majors leaving Pitt?

 

[Ericvol2096]

I didn't know that either! Thanks!

 

[UTvol1fn]

I'm watching Pitt vs. UGA in the 1977 Sugar Bowl on ESPN Classic. Of course Pitt was playing for a National Championship in this game. Keith Jackson has mentioned a couple a couple of times during the broadcast that this was Majors' last game at Pitt and he was heading to Tennessee. I wasn't born until '78 so I wasn't around for this. I had no idea he decided to leave Pitt before this game. Now the last couple of years there have been several coaches leave before bowl games and get ripped for doing so. If a coach announced he was going to leave right before his team played in a NC game now he would be crucified. For those of you who are old enough to remember, what was the reaction nationally over Majors leaving Pitt?

I'm sure he got ripped....college coaches have been changing schools abruptly and for more pay or to go back to 'their school' since the beginning of the sport. Some will be fine with it and some will not be so happy. I'm sure Pitt wasn't too pleased after Majors left them for us....as I know we were happy to have Majors back on campus.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Majors left a team he built into a National Champion to come to TN. He built the foundation, and much of the structure of UT's sucess in the 90's. in the last few seasons, UT has quickly lost much of what was built here over the last 20 years.

 

[jsc1973]

I'm sure Pitt wasn't too pleased after Majors left them for us....as I know we were happy to have Majors back on campus.

There was little resentment. He had just won the national championship. He had rebuilt their program, and was leaving a very good coach in Jackie Sherrill behind to continue the success for years to come. Johnny was a Tennessee man, he wanted to come home and rebuild the program he played for. His work at Pitt was complete and most people understood.

Majors is still very respected up there, and as you may recall, went back to Pitt for four years after he left Tennessee, at which time he was succeeded by someone he recommended. He still has a home in Pittsburgh.

Look at it this way: if Lane Kiffin had stayed here, won a national championship four years from now, and then moved to USC, would we have been mad at him? No, because he would have kept his promises, and he would just be going back home.

 

[ZZ13]

I'm sure he got ripped....college coaches have been changing schools abruptly and for more pay or to go back to 'their school' since the beginning of the sport. Some will be fine with it and some will not be so happy. I'm sure Pitt wasn't too pleased after Majors left them for us....as I know we were happy to have Majors back on campus.

He didn't get ripped. There was no internet and no ESPN. Just newspapers and one game a week on ABC. It was expected he'd go back to his alma mater. He announced it prior to the bowl game and stayed and coached the team through the bowl game. Maybe there was some disappointed fans in Pittsburgh, but nationally it was received as the appropriate move. I know we had a big party for him in Stokely when he got here.

 

[TreeGreen]

Majors also didn't leave like a snake in the night. Everyone knew well ahead of time that he was heading to Tennessee and that Sherrill was going to be the man after him. It's a similar situation but it isn't.

 

[VOLnMiami]

He didn't get ripped because everybody knew he was a UT grad and that it was his dream job so to speak....Was no hard feelings towards him what so ever...They love Johnny up there too...Pitt rehired him when Fulmer took over at UT.

 

[FlipsideRunner]

Thanks for all of the insight everyone!

 

[LWSVOL]

I'm watching Pitt vs. UGA in the 1977 Sugar Bowl on ESPN Classic. Of course Pitt was playing for a National Championship in this game. Keith Jackson has mentioned a couple a couple of times during the broadcast that this was Majors' last game at Pitt and he was heading to Tennessee. I wasn't born until '78 so I wasn't around for this. I had no idea he decided to leave Pitt before this game. Now the last couple of years there have been several coaches leave before bowl games and get ripped for doing so. If a coach announced he was going to leave right before his team played in a NC game now he would be crucified. For those of you who are old enough to remember, what was the reaction nationally over Majors leaving Pitt?

JTM came into a much worse situation than CDD is coming into. If you look at the few years prior to JTM returning and how long it took to get back, it was a long spell.

1973 8 wins
1974 7 wins
1975 7 wins
1976 6 wins
1977 4 wins
1978 5 wins
1979 7 wins
1980 5 wins
1981 8 wins
1982 6 wins
1983 9 wins
1984 7 wins
1985 9 wins
1986 7 wins
1987 10 wins (DOUBLE DIGIT WINS!!!!!!)
1988 5 wins


There are some who think the program is back, from a talent perspective, to where it was when Majors returned. I don't think quite that bad but it could easily slide back to that poor. Linemen recruiting in the next class is critical to not continuing a backward slice. Even if recruiting ranking is 30, better get linemen...

 

[utmba93]

JTM came into a much worse situation than CDD is coming into. If you look at the few years prior to JTM returning and how long it took to get back, it was a long spell.

1973 8 wins
1974 7 wins
1975 7 wins
1976 6 wins
1977 4 wins
1978 5 wins
1979 7 wins
1980 5 wins
1981 8 wins
1982 6 wins
1983 9 wins
1984 7 wins
1985 9 wins
1986 7 wins
1987 10 wins (DOUBLE DIGIT WINS!!!!!!)
1988 5 wins


There are some who think the program is back, from a talent perspective, to where it was when Majors returned. I don't think quite that bad but it could easily slide back to that poor. Linemen recruiting in the next class is critical to not continuing a backward slice. Even if recruiting ranking is 30, better get linemen...

Larry, I've also thought that Majors was the major force in putting UT on the national recruiting map. Dooley does not have that challenge. UT is already there.

Is it fair to credit Majors with that accomplishment?

 

[Vercingetorix]

1973 8 wins
1974 7 wins
1975 7 wins
1976 6 wins
1977 4 wins
1978 5 wins
1979 7 wins
1980 5 wins
1981 8 wins
1982 6 wins
1983 9 wins
1984 7 wins
1985 9 wins
1986 7 wins
1987 10 wins (DOUBLE DIGIT WINS!!!!!!)
1988 5 wins

This was my childhood. No wonder I'm a fatalist about Tennessee football.

It is also worth mentioning that we lost to Alabama almost every single year on this list.

 

[LWSVOL]

Larry, I've also thought that Majors was the major force in putting UT on the national recruiting map. Dooley does not have that challenge. UT is already there.

Is it fair to credit Majors with that accomplishment?

actually, Tennessee has always been a factor on the national recruiting map. Many of Neyland's recruits came from aroud the country..

here is 1966 when there was no limits on how many you can sign..

Baucom, Tommy Nashville TN
Brooks, Dick Griffin GA
Callaway, Tom Welch WV
Carroll, Steve Chattanooga TN
Childress, Danny Lynchburg VA
Denny, Tod Wintersville OH
Dingus, Vic Kingsport TN
Drinka, Louis Chicago IL
Eilers, Ray Beaver Dam WI
Fordham, Mike Newport News VA
Hanlon, Doug Great River NY
Hiers, Bobby Bartow FL
Himelsbaugh, Stan Leesburg FL
Hudson, Ed Chattanooga TN
Jones, Mike Nashville TN
Jordan, Walter Smyrna TN
Kiner, Steve Tampa FL
King, Steve Greenback TN
Kreis, Gary Oliver Springs TN
McEver, Jim Davidson NC
McLeary, Don Humboldt TN
Mixon, Manley Nashville TN
Patterson, Bobby Nashville TN
Pearce, Lanny Stone Mountain GA
Pippin, Fred Gate City VA
Rechichar, Steve Monesson PA
Rippetoe, John Johnson City TN
Smith, Wayne Nashville TN
Tansil, Allen Sevierville TN
Weaver, Herman Villa Rica GA
Wold, Steve Port Orange FL
Zimmer, Rick Massapequa NY

 

[utmba93]

actually, Tennessee has always been a factor on the national recruiting map. Many of Neyland's recruits came from aroud the country..

here is 1966 when there was no limits on how many you can sign..

Baucom, Tommy Nashville TN
Brooks, Dick Griffin GA
Callaway, Tom Welch WV
Carroll, Steve Chattanooga TN
Childress, Danny Lynchburg VA
Denny, Tod Wintersville OH
Dingus, Vic Kingsport TN
Drinka, Louis Chicago IL
Eilers, Ray Beaver Dam WI
Fordham, Mike Newport News VA
Hanlon, Doug Great River NY
Hiers, Bobby Bartow FL
Himelsbaugh, Stan Leesburg FL
Hudson, Ed Chattanooga TN
Jones, Mike Nashville TN
Jordan, Walter Smyrna TN
Kiner, Steve Tampa FL
King, Steve Greenback TN
Kreis, Gary Oliver Springs TN
McEver, Jim Davidson NC
McLeary, Don Humboldt TN
Mixon, Manley Nashville TN
Patterson, Bobby Nashville TN
Pearce, Lanny Stone Mountain GA
Pippin, Fred Gate City VA
Rechichar, Steve Monesson PA
Rippetoe, John Johnson City TN
Smith, Wayne Nashville TN
Tansil, Allen Sevierville TN
Weaver, Herman Villa Rica GA
Wold, Steve Port Orange FL
Zimmer, Rick Massapequa NY

Thanks, Larry. I figured you had this type of data and wondered how the rosters looked back then.

What do you consider CJM's most meaningful contributions to UT's program?

 

[Holic]

This was my childhood. No wonder I'm a fatalist about Tennessee football.

It is also worth mentioning that we lost to Alabama almost every single year on this list.

I was trying to forget about those years!

 

[tm3]

JTM came into a much worse situation than CDD is coming into.

huh? CDD stacked the deck for CBB, who went what, 6 years with no losing season before CJM took over.

this CDD inherits a program that has had 2 losing seasons out of the last 5 with big attrition of scholarship players. how is the program in better shape than it was for CJM?

 

[LWSVOL]

huh? CDD stacked the deck for CBB, who went what, 6 years with no losing season before CJM took over.

this CDD inherits a program that has had 2 losing seasons out of the last 5 with big attrition of scholarship players. how is the program in better shape than it was for CJM?

there is currently more talent than the team had Majors took over..

 

[LWSVOL]

Thanks, Larry. I figured you had this type of data and wondered how the rosters looked back then.

What do you consider CJM's most meaningful contributions to UT's program?

he got it turned back from dark ages no doubt. it was headed even further down had change not been made.

He set the foundation for what happened in the 90s.

 

[utmba93]

he got it turned back from dark ages no doubt. it was headed even further down had change not been made.

He set the foundation for what happened in the 90s.

You should write a book on the history of UT football. You've got all the data and insights required.

I really appreciate your posts and perspectives.

 

[GoBigOrange98]

he got it turned back from dark ages no doubt. it was headed even further down had change not been made.

He set the foundation for what happened in the 90s.

I have to disagree with you that he set the foundation. He may have gave us the expectations to compete for SEC championships but he was gone for 6 years when we won the NC.

 

[ksgovols]

I think Doug Dickey set the foundation, Bill Battle won with CDD's recruits and then couldn't hold on, but there were a lot of changes in the conference at that time with the inclusion of African American athletes. Johnny Majors had the best recruiting class in the nation after his first year with nothing like the scholarship restrictions that a coach now faces. The 80's were a mixed bag and UT lost to teams they shouldn't have lost to almost on a yearly basis. I don't think it was until the 90's that the program was stable. Majors played a part in it but he'd run his course. I don't think it's a 15 year job anymore. Recruiting on a national level is not easy to sustain for that length of time.

 

[Vercingetorix]

I have to disagree with you that he set the foundation. He may have gave us the expectations to compete for SEC championships but he was gone for 6 years when we won the NC.

Majors won more SEC championships than Fulmer did. If that's not building the foundation, I don't know what is.

 

[orangesox]

Majors won more SEC championships than Fulmer did. If that's not building the foundation, I don't know what is.

I absolutely agree that Majors laid the foundation for the 1990s, but SEC championships pre-1992 and post-1992 aren't exactly an apples to apples comparison.:hi:

 

[Voltillyafall]

I think Doug Dickey set the foundation, Bill Battle won with CDD's recruits and then couldn't hold on, but there were a lot of changes in the conference at that time with the inclusion of African American athletes. Johnny Majors had the best recruiting class in the nation after his first year with nothing like the scholarship restrictions that a coach now faces. The 80's were a mixed bag and UT lost to teams they shouldn't have lost to almost on a yearly basis. I don't think it was until the 90's that the program was stable. Majors played a part in it but he'd run his course. I don't think it's a 15 year job anymore. Recruiting on a national level is not easy to sustain for that length of time.

This post by ksgovols is, so far, the most accurate and informative post in this thread. Bill Battle was overmatched, if for no other reason that he never had been a head coach before at the young age of 28. Dickey turned the program around, and had the table set for Battle. Battle won with Dickey's recruits, but the program's free-fall began as Dickey's recruits graduated. Battle couldn't recruit, and could not compete against Alabama, Auburn, or even Ole Miss or Mississippi State. The recruits he did have, he used improperly...for instance, one of the best receivers to ever come out of UT was Stanley Morgan, who had a great career with the Patriots and other NFL teams. Battle had him at tailback, and ran the wishbone. When UT lost to North Texas State, at home, Battle's time was over.

I do have to point out that the scholarship changes had been instituted before Majors came back here. For instance, John had 85 players on his first Pitt team with scholarship aid. He couldn't do that in his first year at Tennessee.

John's first class was tops in the nation, but with the usual attrition. After that first year, however, recruiting was very, very inconsistent. The "mixed bag" that the poster refers to was due to the failure to recruit consistently at the quarterback position. When you have people like Jimmy Streater (God rest his soul) and Sterling Henton running your team, you have trouble winning.

Ironically, the team John had when he was forced out was his best team, talent wise. Most everyone knows that there were over 20 future NFL players on that team. When Fulmer took that loaded bunch, and recruited like a madman and added pieces like Mr. Manning, consitency came to the program until Phillip got lazy.

Though I digress a bit, one big change for the better came when John was forced out...and it was not necessarily that Phillip became head coach. Fulmer was offensive coordinator under Majors at the end of John's time here, and he was notoriously conservative. When Fulmer moved to head coach, Cut became offensive coordinator, and the team took off like a house on fire. That change at offensive coordinator, an "unintended consequence" in the changing of head coaches, was a key to our immediate success when Fulmer took over, in my opinion more important than changing head coaches.

Taking all variables into consideration (strength of opposition, scheduling, different time/different era), there is little doubt in my mind that the situation that Derek Dooley steps into is not appreciably different than what Majors had when he took over. Yes, we now have 2 straight top-ten recruiting classes, and Majors took over a team with much less athletic ability, but in relative terms their situations are almost identical.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

Majors won more SEC championships than Fulmer did. If that's not building the foundation, I don't know what is.

Two of those awarded only because Florida was on probation, the third a 3-way split.