When did the slide begin?

#1
g8terh8ter_eric

g8terh8ter_eric

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#1
Stop for a second and ask yourself, when did this all start going wrong?? I found myself asking this very question today after thinking about the past 10 years or so. Honestly, I can't pick just one so here's where I think we started the downhill trend....

1. Randy Sanders promoted to OC. Sure, he's was a good position coach here at UT but this move just didn't make sense. It also made me wonder if Phil was really calling the plays until we just didn't have the talent anymore to make it look better.

2. Stallworth's dropped TD passes in the 01 SECCG. Sure, this maybe a reach BUT we haven't played well in Atlanta on both sides of the ball since the first half of that game.

3. The recruiting classes from 2002 and 2003. Very overrated, even though they had their studs. Tough to play a game in the SEC with so many busts that came from those classes. I believe these classes still haunt us somewhat.

4. Trooper Taylor. Sure he can give chest bumps, but I can honestly admit that I was wrong and talent made him look better than advertised. That being said though, his WR core from last season definitely was made into something bigger than it really was. Ainge made that group look great when there wasn't really that much talent there besides Gerald Jones and Lucas Taylor.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but that's all I have right now.
 
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#2
#2
Stallworth's dropped pass means nothing if our defense adjusts to Matt Mauck's running ability. Trooper Taylor was a relatively great assistant coach compared to some of the morons Fulmer has hired.
 
#3
#3
The current situation we're in didn't just happen overnight. This is a result of a very very conservative coach past his prime.
 
#4
#4
g8terh8ter_eric said:
a second and ask ourselves, when did this all start going wrong?? I found myself asking this very question today after thinking about the past 10 years or so. Honestly, I can't pick just one so here's where I think we started the downhill trend....

1. Randy Sanders promoted to OC. Sure, he's was a good position coach here at UT but this move just didn't make sense. It also made me wonder if Phil was really calling the plays until we just didn't have the talent anymore to make it look better.

2. Stallworth's dropped TD passes in the 01 SECCG. Sure, this maybe a reach BUT we haven't played well in Atlanta on both sides of the ball since the first half of that game.

3. The recruiting classes from 2002 and 2003. Very overrated, even though they had their studs. Tough to play a game in the SEC with so many busts that came from those classes. I believe these classes still haunt us somethat.

4. Trooper Taylor. Sure he can give chest bumps, but I can honestly admit that I was wrong and talent made him look better than advertised. That being said though, his WR core from last season definitely was made into something bigger than it really was. Ainge made that group look great when there wasn't really that much talent there besides Gerald Jones and Lucas Taylor.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but that's all I have right now.
Click to expand...

#1 is the correct answer, but I'm actually wondering if you realize exactly when that happened. It was the 1998 National Championship Game (The 1999 Fiesta Bowl). Pretty ironic, huh?
 
#5
#5
kptvol said:
Stallworth's dropped pass means nothing if our defense adjusts to Matt Mauck's running ability. Trooper Taylor was a relatively great assistant coach compared to some of the morons Fulmer has hired.
Click to expand...

That's something that I don't think our defense has ever been able to do. You can look back at the Nebraska games when we had all the GREAT players on defense we had and they didn't even stop them.
 
#6
#6
Vol423 said:
#1 is the correct answer, but I'm actually wondering if you realize exactly when that happened. It was the 1998 National Championship Game (The 199 Fiesta Bowl). Pretty ironic, huh?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was well aware that Cut had cleaned out his office and was recruiting for Ole Miss that very day we played for the NC.
 
#7
#7
The Trooper Taylor comment doesn't make sense to me...he was a position coach that recruited very well....and nothing more. His groups performed and I'm not sure how, if his talent did make him look better than he was, he is remotely an example of ... where we started to go wrong.

IMO, Randy Sanders is a good start...but it seemed to me that the 01 SECCG was the beginning of the end of Fulmer....if not the NC itself.
 
#8
#8
I think we made good progress and then annihialated Michigan Wolverines. I remember being excited during offseason thinking We`re Back! Then a resounding thud ever since.
 

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#9
#9
I agree with most of these, the one glaring mistake, and I can't believe you're serious is the Trooper Taylor bit.

I think we are seeing now just how much Troop meant to our offense, and possibly a mistake on the coach's part on not recognizing the talent and promoting him to OC. Hear me out:

I know Troop isn't calling plays at Oklahoma State and that he shares the OC duties, but here everything the man touched turned to gold. I'm not even going to pull up stats on this because it's well-known. He succeeded remarkably as a wide receivers coach, he developed guys into Sunday players. When moved to RB coach, that unit showed an immediate improvement. Guys wanted to play for him - which is also why he suceeded as a recruiter. And this aspect of his duties must not be overlooked.

We all know it's a harder task to convince folks to come on down to Tennessee than it is at Schools in Sunny Florida, or recruiting meccas like Louisiana and Alabama. We need a guy on our team that can pull top level talent from all over the nation. He was that guy.

And I realize that Fulmer was reluctant to hire from within due to the Randy Sanders debacle. I understand that. But when you have the talent right in front of you, you have to be able to recognize it, Fulmer didn't do that. Now we have Clawson who has never recruited top-flight talent, is struggling as an offensive coordinator in scheming, in play-calling, and motivating his players. All areas that Troop would've excelled in.

Rant over.
 
#10
#10
If you want to actually pinpoint a single event where the downward trend started, then (as I stated before), Randy Sanders assuming the Offensive Coordinator position during the 1998 National Championship Game was that single event.

However, the truth of the matter is that Fulmer, Chavis and company were NEVER a good coaching staff. They were a group that overachieved in the early to mid-90's due to the fact that the rest of the conference had terrible head coaches (with the exception of Spurrier, who owned Fulmer), and UT was able to absolutely dominate the other teams in the conference from a talent perspective. The 1998 National Championship was the culmination of this era, which was marked by a) a team loaded with an unbelievable level of raw talent and b) virtually every single possible lucky break going UT's way the entire season. The coaching wasn't anything special in that season. The overall talent level of the team and the numerous lucky breaks that the 1998 team got is what won that national championship.
 
#11
#11
Okie State has had a great offense for years and years. There's a reason Mike Gundy got promoted to head coach after Les Miles left. Trooper Taylor didn't turn anything to gold over there.
 
#12
#12
kptvol said:
Okie State has had a great offense for years and years. There's a reason Mike Gundy got promoted to head coach after Les Miles left. Trooper Taylor didn't turn anything to gold over there.
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I never said he did. He is helping to keep a good thing going, though and there is something to be said about that.

It also says that lil ole Mike Gundy is a better evaluator of coaching talent than Phil. There's a reason Troop got that job and it isn't his recruiting talents.
 
#13
#13
Sabanocchio said:
I agree with most of these, the one glaring mistake, and I can't believe you're serious is the Trooper Taylor bit.

I think we are seeing now just how much Troop meant to our offense, and possibly a mistake on the coach's part on not recognizing the talent and promoting him to OC. Hear me out:

I know Troop isn't calling plays at Oklahoma State and that he shares the OC duties, but here everything the man touched turned to gold. I'm not even going to pull up stats on this because it's well-known. He succeeded remarkably as a wide receivers coach, he developed guys into Sunday players. When moved to RB coach, that unit showed an immediate improvement. Guys wanted to play for him - which is also why he suceeded as a recruiter. And this aspect of his duties must not be overlooked.

We all know it's a harder task to convince folks to come on down to Tennessee than it is at Schools in Sunny Florida, or recruiting meccas like Louisiana and Alabama. We need a guy on our team that can pull top level talent from all over the nation. He was that guy.

And I realize that Fulmer was reluctant to hire from within due to the Randy Sanders debacle. I understand that. But when you have the talent right in front of you, you have to be able to recognize it, Fulmer didn't do that. Now we have Clawson who has never recruited top-flight talent, is struggling as an offensive coordinator in scheming, in play-calling, and motivating his players. All areas that Troop would've excelled in.

Rant over.
Click to expand...

I disagree, but I still appreciate the custom signature. :hi:
 
#16
#16
Vol423 said:
I disagree, but I still appreciate the custom signature. :hi:
Click to expand...

fair enough. Just something to think about. I know there is a love fest for Dave Clawson for some strange reason, but he is doing things that are unconventional and unproven. Start with moving linemen all over the place.

You start with a group that was one of the best in the nation and returns 5 guys with serious game time experience all of them with some starting experience and you put them out of their natural positions. That just makes no sense to me. They aren't doing it in Alabama and they're winning. They aren't doing it in Florida. In fact no one in the SEC is doing it. It certainly hasn't worked for us this year.

And what has Clawson ever done that is notable? He coached in DII for eight years. (I know sub-divison schmug division) He coached Brian Westbrook and that's his claim to fame. I'm just totally unsatisfied with the job he's done thus far and it may turn out to be the straw that breaks the fat man's back.
 
#17
#17
Vol423 said:
Given the current state of our program, it's hard to argue with his first statement. If you're saying that you disagree with his second statement, though, then I concur with your assessment.
Click to expand...

Not real familiar with Gundy's evaluation of coaching talent. Him hiring Trooper doesn't make me think he's better than Phil.
 
#18
#18
kptvol said:
Disagree.
Click to expand...

So you think Fulmer is a better judge of coaching talent? I can tell you this, there are at least 5 coaches in the SEC that are better. That McElwain hire down at Bama looks like a pretty smart move right about now.
 
#19
#19
kptvol said:
Not real familiar with Gundy's evaluation of coaching talent. Him hiring Trooper doesn't make me think he's better than Phil.
Click to expand...

You have to concede though, he's probably not any worse.

I'm not saying go out and hire Mr. I'm a man-I'm 40. I'm just saying we have to be displeased with the job Fulmer has done at surrounding himself with the best talent out there, and keeping them around.
 
#20
#20
g8terh8ter_eric said:
a second and ask ourselves, when did this all start going wrong?? I found myself asking this very question today after thinking about the past 10 years or so. Honestly, I can't pick just one so here's where I think we started the downhill trend....

1. Randy Sanders promoted to OC. Sure, he's was a good position coach here at UT but this move just didn't make sense. It also made me wonder if Phil was really calling the plays until we just didn't have the talent anymore to make it look better.

2. Stallworth's dropped TD passes in the 01 SECCG. Sure, this maybe a reach BUT we haven't played well in Atlanta on both sides of the ball since the first half of that game.

3. The recruiting classes from 2002 and 2003. Very overrated, even though they had their studs. Tough to play a game in the SEC with so many busts that came from those classes. I believe these classes still haunt us somewhat.

4. Trooper Taylor. Sure he can give chest bumps, but I can honestly admit that I was wrong and talent made him look better than advertised. That being said though, his WR core from last season definitely was made into something bigger than it really was. Ainge made that group look great when there wasn't really that much talent there besides Gerald Jones and Lucas Taylor.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but that's all I have right now.
Click to expand...

Above, plus Mark Richt, Nick Saban, Tommy Tubberville,Les Miles, Urban Meyer, Spurrier, Nutt and now Butch Davis surrounding us and competing for talent.
 
#21
#21
Sabanocchio said:
fair enough. Just something to think about. I know there is a love fest for Dave Clawson for some strange reason, but he is doing things that are unconventional and unproven. Start with moving linemen all over the place.

You start with a group that was one of the best in the nation and returns 5 guys with serious game time experience all of them with some starting experience and you put them out of their natural positions. That just makes no sense to me. They aren't doing it in Alabama and they're winning. They aren't doing it in Florida. In fact no one in the SEC is doing it. It certainly hasn't worked for us this year.

And what has Clawson ever done that is notable? He coached in DII for eight years. (I know sub-divison schmug division) He coached Brian Westbrook and that's his claim to fame. I'm just totally unsatisfied with the job he's done thus far and it may turn out to be the straw that breaks the fat man's back.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Clawson. I think that Fulmer and this entire staff needs to be fired and replaced no later than the end of this season. I just don't think that Trooper Taylor had done enough to deserve a promotion to offensive coordinator.
 
#22
#22
kptvol said:
Not real familiar with Gundy's evaluation of coaching talent. Him hiring Trooper doesn't make me think he's better than Phil.
Click to expand...

It's kind of difficult to get any worse than Phil. Chavis is awful. Randy Sanders was abysmal. Clawson, so far, has been terrible. Slade is the worst freaking DB coach on the face of the freaking planet.
 
#23
#23
Sabanocchio said:
You have to concede though, he's probably not any worse.

I'm not saying go out and hire Mr. I'm a man-I'm 40. I'm just saying we have to be displeased with the job Fulmer has done at surrounding himself with the best talent out there, and keeping them around.
Click to expand...

I did mention in another thread that his poor hires and subsequent unwillingness to fire them has hurt UT more than anything else.
 
#24
#24
Vol423 said:
It's kind of difficult to get any worse than Phil. Chavis is awful. Randy Sanders was abysmal. Clawson, so far, has been terrible. Slade is the worst freaking DB coach on the face of the freaking planet.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with that statement, up until 3rd down anyways.
 
#25
#25
Vol423 said:
Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Clawson. I think that Fulmer and this entire staff needs to be fired and replaced no later than the end of this season. I just don't think that Trooper Taylor had done enough to deserve a promotion to offensive coordinator.
Click to expand...

I agree. Fulmer would've been crucified for it. But in retrospect it couldn't have been any worse and you have a guy that your players already believe in and want to play for. I was never a fan of hiring Troop for OC at the time, but I didn't have the opportunity to see him work every day either.
 
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