Whats Next?/What is this country coming to? (merged)

#126
#126
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
see thats where you have to look at American Political Theory. According the the Constitution, that document that is supposed to be surpeme above all, the laws are to protect, not limit the people
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The Constitution is absolute, regardless of how it's interpreted. Old opinions by even Franklin are meaningless unless they're are in the document.
 
#127
#127
tim said:
I think, in a true democracy, the county could vote on these matters. This would centralize all the loonies to .... Droski-land (California). No offense Droski, you'd be welcome in my county.
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the US has thankfully never been a true democracy. If it was we might still have separate water fountains
 
#128
#128
The Dude said:
If the writers wanted it in there, it would be in there.
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This. Period.

Hypotheticals and centuries old quotes are meaningless, no matter how you want to spin it.

I say this again, there is zero demonstrable proof this country was founded exclusively on judeo-christian principles.
 
#129
#129
The Dude said:
The Constitution is absolute, regardless of how it's interpreted. Old opinions by even Franklin are meaningless unless they're are in the document.
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exactly, it's not important what they believed as an individual but how they saw the US being governed. They were smart enough to be able to separate the 2
 
#130
#130
Oldvol75 said:
You shold have read to the end of the post!!

Can you show me where I said Hollywood is the law? Or are you just reading what you want to? Interesting, You intrupting my post to say what you want it to say, not what it says! Kind of like the law.
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I read all of it and it was crap.
 
#131
#131
rjd970 said:
This. Period.

Hypotheticals and centuries old quotes are meaningless, no matter how you want to spin it.

I say this again, there is zero demonstrable proof this country was founded exclusively on judeo-christian principles.
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Then please explain what principals it was built on. What did the founding fathers use as their models for this republic?
 
#133
#133
Oldvol75 said:
Then please explain what principals it was built on. What did the founding fathers use as their models for this republic?
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come on. This nation was built upon freedom from religious or government oppression. TJ was the main architect of our republic and he clearly wanted to make sure that our government never interfered in our religious affairs.

The founders were generally Christian, but never had any intent to make this a Christian nation.

The model for this republic was pre emperor Rome.
 
#134
#134
The Dude said:
The Constitution is absolute, regardless of how it's interpreted. Old opinions by even Franklin are meaningless unless they're are in the document.
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and the framers did a phenomenal job of authoring the document in such a way that many opinions of the day would be excluded, otherwise we would have had a far less enduring doc.
 
#135
#135
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
well what better way to interpret the document then to look at the people who wrote it?

who better to ask about shakespere then shakespere?
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but the folks who wrote it did so after much serious debate over the language. It's not the opinion of one man. Jefferson shaped much of the debate and put forth much of the original document that was argued over, but his views aren't what drove the outcome. The combined views of our founding fathers made it happen. We just happen to be damn fortunate that they were brilliant as a group.
 
#136
#136
BigPapaVol said:
come on. This nation was built upon freedom from religious or government oppression. TJ was the main architect of our republic and he clearly wanted to make sure that our government never interfered in our religious affairs.

The founders were generally Christian, but never had any intent to make this a Christian nation.

The model for this republic was pre emperor Rome.
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Sorry, I was taught it was "Freedom OF Religion" not from. I must have been absent that day.
 
#137
#137
Oldvol75 said:
Sorry, I was taught it was "Freedom OF Religion" not from. I must have been absent that day.
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how are the two different. Freedom of religion absolutely means the right to choose to abstain altogether. Our forefathers absolutely hated mixing state and religion. There is no debate about that. The constitution is intentionally devoid of religious overtones.

The cute little semantics game you play doesn't change the facts.
 
#138
#138
BigPapaVol said:
but the folks who wrote it did so after much serious debate over the language. It's not the opinion of one man. Jefferson shaped much of the debate and put forth much of the original document that was argued over, but his views aren't what drove the outcome. The combined views of our founding fathers made it happen. We just happen to be damn fortunate that they were brilliant as a group.
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oh i know, read the federalist and anti-federalist papers.
 
#139
#139
BigPapaVol said:
how are the two different. Freedom of religion absolutely means the right to choose to abstain altogether. Our forefathers absolutely hated mixing state and religion. There is no debate about that. The constitution is intentionally devoid of religious overtones.

The cute little semantics game you play doesn't change the facts.
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I'm not the one that went from, Of to From, so just how did "I play semantics"?
 
#140
#140
Oldvol75 said:
I'm not the one that went from, Of to From, so just how did "I play semantics"?
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acting as if the change was somehow material to the meaning of the sentence. Everyone knows what it means, save those trying to cram religion down the throats of everyone else.
 
#141
#141
BigPapaVol said:
come on. This nation was built upon freedom from religious or government oppression. TJ was the main architect of our republic and he clearly wanted to make sure that our government never interfered in our religious affairs.

The founders were generally Christian, but never had any intent to make this a Christian nation.

The model for this republic was pre emperor Rome.
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Thank God for it, Freedom is every thing!

:hi:
 
#142
#142
BigPapaVol said:
acting as if the change was somehow material to the meaning of the sentence. Everyone knows what it means, save those trying to cram religion down the throats of everyone else.
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i personally dont care if someone doesnt believe the way that i do in that respect. however is what i have a problem with is when the person raising the problems is doing so, just out of spite, not in any convction what so ever. Then the school board immediatly folds. If this was really that big of a problem, would the event have gone on this long?
 
#143
#143
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
i personally dont care if someone doesnt believe the way that i do in that respect. however is what i have a problem with is when the person raising the problems is doing so, just out of spite, not in any convction what so ever. Then the school board immediatly folds. If this was really that big of a problem, would the event have gone on this long?
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I don't really care about the particular problem. I would like for the law of our land to be correct, then upheld.
 
#144
#144
BigPapaVol said:
acting as if the change was somehow material to the meaning of the sentence. Everyone knows what it means, save those trying to cram religion down the throats of everyone else.
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Why is this viewed as craming religion down someones throat? Just acknowledging that the majority of our founding fathers believed in Jesus Christ is forcing you or anyone else to accept him? I don't understand????

Now if I addressed you and litterally demanded that you believe or else, then I could see where you could see this as forcing it down your throat. I do not believe that that has been done anywhere in this thread.

Its just a discussion, no need for anger,geez.....
 
#145
#145
BigPapaVol said:
I don't really care about the particular problem. I would like for the law of our land to be correct, then upheld.
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:hi:

Every thing starts with freedom, from my own viewpoint christians are too lazy and want the government to do their job for them!

Goes back to my whole bastardization of the bible theory...
 
#146
#146
Oldvol75 said:
Why is this viewed as craming religion down someones throat? Just acknowledging that the majority of our founding fathers believed in Jesus Christ is forcing you or anyone else to accept him? I don't understand????

Now if I addressed you and litterally demanded that you believe or else, then I could see where you could see this as forcing it down your throat. I do not believe that that has been done anywhere in this thread.

Its just a discussion, no need for anger,geez.....
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First off, don't mind BPV, he is a big giant teddy bear.

Second, I would go with the founders were deist over full born again christians.
 
#148
#148
Oldvol75 said:
Why is this viewed as craming religion down someones throat? Just acknowledging that the majority of our founding fathers believed in Jesus Christ is forcing you or anyone else to accept him? I don't understand????

Now if I addressed you and litterally demanded that you believe or else, then I could see where you could see this as forcing it down your throat. I do not believe that that has been done anywhere in this thread.

Its just a discussion, no need for anger,geez.....
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I'm not talking about you in particular. I'm talking about those who would fight to the end about keeping prayer in our public schools and other similar issues. Those are the folks who make the exact comment that you just made, trying to draw the conclusion that there is some pro-religious implications in the language of our constitution.

I'm not angry.
 
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