What Will it Take??

#26
#26
The right coach can turn it around. There is not a doubt in my mind.

The question is with the current state of the program and possible sanctions coming, how much time is a legitimate amount of time for the "right coach' to have Tennessee back in the hunt.

IMO, it will take until year 3 to achieve something beyond mere bowl eligibility. Some may think it should be quicker than that. Some may think it will take longer.

Part 2 is how long to win a championship. That's a different deal because with the current state of the league you can finish #6 in the country and not win your division.
 
#29
#29
VolInNW said:
All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??
Click to expand...

no way to know when they start the climb back. The first step is to beat the lower tier teams more frequently than they have been the last 13 years. You can't lose to Vandy 5 times in the last 13 years and expect to be competitive with the top tier teams. Everyone knows who they are so won't list them.

At some point there will be a coach that gets it flipped and starts beating those lower tier. When he does that across 3, 4 or 5 years he will be staying around for a while and have a chance to take on the top tier.

Here is how UT has fared versus the SEC teams the last 13 years. It is going to take many years to flip some of those numbers,

record in the SEC for 13 years:

Alabama 0-13
Arkansas 0-3
Auburn 1-4
Florida 1-12
Georgia 3-9
Kentucky 9-3
LSU 0-3
Ole Miss 1-2
Mississippi St 2-1
Missouri 4-5
South Carolina 6-7
Texas A&M 0-2
Vandy 8-5

No one knows when or who gets it done. No matter what anyone says.
 
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#32
#32
VolInNW said:
All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??
Click to expand...

Well, I love UT and I want to see a return to the glory days for all of UT athletics. But, when I take off the orange colored glasses, I see a football program that's relegated itself to somewhere between Kentucky and Vandy . . . maybe South Carolina, to be completely fair. So, ask yourself what it would realistically take to turn one of those teams into a play-off contending program.
 
#33
#33
LWSVOL said:
no way to know when they start the climb back. The first step is to beat the lower tier teams more frequently than they have been the last 13 years. You can't lose to Vandy 5 times in the last 13 years and expect to be competitive with the top tier teams. Everyone knows who they are so won't list them.

At some point there will be a coach that gets it flipped and starts beating those lower tier. When he does that across 3, 4 or 5 years he will be staying around for a while and have a chance to take on the top tier.

Here is how UT has fared versus the SEC teams the last 13 years. It is going to take many years to flip some of those numbers,

record in the SEC for 13 years:

Alabama 0-13
Arkansas 0-3
Auburn 1-4
Florida 1-12
Georgia 3-9
Kentucky 9-3
LSU 0-3
Ole Miss 1-2
Mississippi St 2-1
Missouri 4-5
South Carolina 6-7
Texas A&M 0-2
Vandy 8-5

No one knows when or who gets it done. No matter what anyone says.
Click to expand...

What a terrible record. Well......no where to go but up??? Yeah....

At least we have someone who is a proven offensive mind at every stop. That has to be a start.
 
#34
#34
VolInNW said:
All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??
Click to expand...
Lyle was a flash in the pan. When Dobbs was QB, we were competitive. But won 1 SEC game in his 5 years by anyone not named Dobbs.

Yes, we had Barnett, Kamara, Hurd, Malone, and JRM. But Jones wet the bed repeatedly when he had a chance to get us over the hump. 2013, 14, 15, and 17 vs Florida. 2015 vs Oklahoma, 2016 vs S Car and Vandy. I only include one game from 2013 on the list because the decision to start Peterman and play him AFTER a broken thumb was all time bad. And the 2017 game was also winnable except for his “play for OT” approach when we were dominating the 4th quarter. Otherwise, 2017 disintegrated as the injuries piled up. The team checked out on Jones, and he had no SEC quality linemen in the fold. Speaking of linemen, his decision to play B Kendrick at Kentucky with a concussion should have disqualified him for ever becoming a Head Coach. Jones gave us 2 good years, but even 2016 was a mirage. We should’ve lost to App St and Georgia, and were closer to 6-6. We absolutely can do better than him as coach.
 
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#35
#35
Volfan76 said:
Gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. Gonna take a commitment to win by the administration. Right now, no such commitment exists.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. From Boyd all the way down to video assistant.
 
#36
#36
99gator said:
The right coach can turn it around. There is not a doubt in my mind.

The question is with the current state of the program and possible sanctions coming, how much time is a legitimate amount of time for the "right coach' to have Tennessee back in the hunt.

IMO, it will take until year 3 to achieve something beyond mere bowl eligibility. Some may think it should be quicker than that. Some may think it will take longer.

Part 2 is how long to win a championship. That's a different deal because with the current state of the league you can finish #6 in the country and not win your division.
Click to expand...
Wishful thinking from your troll azz.
 
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#38
#38
Voltopia said:
"But this one is hopefully factually and logically based."

lolwut. Unless people commenting work for the program, or know the actual answers as to why the UTAD either has done something or is going to do something, I don't know how this conversation can be any more "factually based" than the other fifteen million conversations about what's going on with Tennessee football. Hell, one of the founding principles of VolNation is an unwavering commitment to talking about crap we don't know the whole story about. Sure, every college football fan does it, but here it's practically a Tennessee Tradition. It's a little known fact that Bob Neyland's Eighth Maxim was "Speculate, guess, and double down, for that is the winning edge on the world wide web."
Click to expand...

Well, arent you just a ray of smug little sunshine?

Good grief. Lighten up, Frances.
 
#40
#40
VolInNW said:
All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??
Click to expand...

How long has "Lyle" been gone? Dammit man, stop mourning the past. It is meaningless, and it is for wussies. They just need to quit doing stupid crap over there. Had more to do with people who were not drawing a paycheck than those who were. Get the right people supporting the program in the right ways, and the Vols will be in contention quickly. But keep the wrong people doing their wrong stuff, and the circus will continue. Hell, if Vandy can build a baseball powerhouse? Tennessee can fix football.
 
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#41
#41
Voltopia said:
"But this one is hopefully factually and logically based."

lolwut. Unless people commenting work for the program, or know the actual answers as to why the UTAD either has done something or is going to do something, I don't know how this conversation can be any more "factually based" than the other fifteen million conversations about what's going on with Tennessee football. Hell, one of the founding principles of VolNation is an unwavering commitment to talking about crap we don't know the whole story about. Sure, every college football fan does it, but here it's practically a Tennessee Tradition. It's a little known fact that Bob Neyland's Eighth Maxim was "Speculate, guess, and double down, for that is the winning edge on the world wide web."
Click to expand...

There were only seven, you knucklehead.
 
#43
#43
The right coach and the right QB.. We haven't had both in a very long time. Whatever the other guys are doing , you do it it too. I've said a long time ago if you're going to play in the same sandbox then play. You can't be Vanderbilt Monday through Friday and Alabama on Saturdays. It just doesn't work that way.
 
#44
#44
"Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based."

Lulz.
 
#45
#45
VolInNW said:
Another "how do we get back" thread.
Click to expand...

At this point, lots of....
tenor.gif
 
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#46
#46
JRich said:
"Legacy" players are never a lock. Guys want to do their own thing, and not necessarily what their parents did. Manning went to UT and not Ole Miss.

It's really as simple as coaching quality. Every great coach in the modern era has had success with 3* rosters early in their careers. Pulling in great recruiting classes is pointless if you can't develop and coach them well, see Pruitt and Jones.
Click to expand...

Archie had a VERY large say in where his sons attended university and he insured the coaching they got was top notch and they wouldn't be used and abused. He even interceded for both of them when they went into the NFL, there were owners and franchises he would not allow his sons to play for and made that very plain. Now, how much influence Archie Sr will have over has grandchildren remains to be seen, but you can best believe they will be heavily influenced by their family who know a thing or two about winning football. I don't see UT being remotely under serious consideration at this time even though the Mannings as a family will be very measured and polite saying all the right things as good Southern people not to be insulting.
 
#47
#47
LWSVOL said:
no way to know when they start the climb back. The first step is to beat the lower tier teams more frequently than they have been the last 13 years. You can't lose to Vandy 5 times in the last 13 years and expect to be competitive with the top tier teams. Everyone knows who they are so won't list them.

At some point there will be a coach that gets it flipped and starts beating those lower tier. When he does that across 3, 4 or 5 years he will be staying around for a while and have a chance to take on the top tier.

Here is how UT has fared versus the SEC teams the last 13 years. It is going to take many years to flip some of those numbers,

record in the SEC for 13 years:

Alabama 0-13
Arkansas 0-3
Auburn 1-4
Florida 1-12
Georgia 3-9
Kentucky 9-3
LSU 0-3
Ole Miss 1-2
Mississippi St 2-1
Missouri 4-5
South Carolina 6-7
Texas A&M 0-2
Vandy 8-5

No one knows when or who gets it done. No matter what anyone says.
Click to expand...

When Vandy has a better record against us than Kentucky over a decade long or longer stretch, we've stunk it up.
 
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