What was our problem the last few years?

[Hacksaw]

I wouldn’t call Butch a proven winner though, not at a Power 5 level. He was at CM 3 years and Cinci 3 years and had solid winning percentages at each but anytime you hire a coach that has basically no P5 experience it’s a gamble. His only P5 experience was 1 year as a WR coach at WVa. He had no idea what he was getting into here. Of course, very few coaches are actually proven winners at a P5 level and they generally won’t come here because they’re usually at schools like OU, Ohio St, Florida, etc.

Butch has been a proven winner as a head coach and none of us should be surprised if he is again in his new job. He even had a winning record at UT (disclaimer: no, he was obviously not the man for the job). Getting a proven winner from a P5 school is, as you suggested, not a realistic expectation -- especially now, given the current state of the program. For that reason, I think Heupel is about as good as we could expect. He checks off more boxes than Pruitt did, for sure.

Bottom line: there's no such thing as a can't miss hire. We can only throw our support behind Heupel like we did for the previous coaches and hope for the best.

 

[Cathead Biscuits]

Fulmer was a terrible AD. Pruitt micromanaged the offense and wasn't a good leader.

I honestly think it's that simple. In spite of all the negative comments here, this team was not that bad outside of terrible QB play and overly conservative gameplans (which smells more of Pruitt micromanaging the offense than Chaney).

We lost at least 3, and maybe 4 games, due to poor QB play (Kentucky, Arkansas, Auburn, and maybe Georgia). Still probably not good enough to have beaten Bama, Florida, or A&M, but we might've knicked Georgia and would be at least 6-4 against a schedule with 4 top 10 opponents.

While Josh Heupel likely would've wanted the job regardless, I do wonder if part of him saw the terrible underperformance at QB and realized that was something he could fix quickly. We have a very talented roster of QBs that have been mismanaged.

Probably the most reasonable answer that I have seen.

Pair this with some out of depth coaches at new positions, the lack of culture and team togetherness, and Pruitt meddling in things he had no reason to be messing with, and you end up with our mess.

 

[hUTch2002]

Butch has been a proven winner as a head coach and none of us should be surprised if he is again in his new job. He even had a winning record at UT (disclaimer: no, he was obviously not the man for the job). Getting a proven winner from a P5 school is, as you suggested, not a realistic expectation -- especially now, given the current state of the program. For that reason, I think Heupel is about as good as we could expect. He checks off more boxes than Pruitt did, for sure.

Bottom line: there's no such thing as a can't miss hire. We can only throw our support behind Heupel like we did for the previous coaches and hope for the best.

I agree. Heupel has the best resume of a hire since Majors, save Butch. No matter what, he’s our coach and we should support him as such. He has a very tough road ahead.

 

[peaygolf]

What was our problem the last few years?


Bad play and horrid coaching.
&
Giving out Happy Meals instead of Big Mac's and large fries

 

[Woke]

Wrong guys in the wrong positions.

Tennessee football has a “brand” that transcends the last 10 years. It was built by Neyland and rebuilt by Majors.

That brand was always “chip on our shoulder” big orange pride, hard nosed toughness, passion and intensity, guys playing over their heads making things happen bc we have ALWAYS been undermanned/overmatched and outrecruited (until PM).

When you lined up against Tennessee you had to be prepared to fight to the end bc in big games we fought to the death. Of course we also had those inexplicable “hangover” games befitting the drinking issues of our HC.

Fulmer / Cutcliffe stabilized the ship and won the PM sweepstakes, using him as a recruiting magnet to build a NC team around. But Fulmer WAY underachieved given what he had to work with, he couldn’t sustain it at the top like Saban, Meyer etc. and it was Fulmer who first instilled the “play not to lose” culture which spread through our team and fan base like Covid.

I like the fact that CJH is a real “coach” who believes in instruction, leadership, focus and performance esp on O.

We’ll soon find out if CJH has the deep passion and “play over our heads” intensity to rebuild our toughness. Can he can find a real SEC DC to get us back on the road to restoring that Tennessee Pride on both sides of the ball? Because instruction and coaching and QB development may be a huge plus but alone won’t get us there w/o that Hacksaw Reynolds nastiness / fierceness.

For you younger fans Tennessee has ALWAYS been a bottom “top tier” SEC program built to overachieve. We’re never going to be “nouveau riche” opportunistic like FL, or SEC royalty like GA, or flat out dominant like Bama. Instead we’ve always been the kid on your schedule you don’t want to fight.

If CJH can restore our brand and recruit to it we’ll get back to being Tennessee. Once our brand is restored, recruiting elevates and becomes self-sustaining going forward.

 

[TJVol95]

We had good recruiting classes and apparently at least 3 NFL caliber coaches. Pruitt, Ansley and Martin.

Skoal Can Cornbread

 

[Remy]

I agree we should have beaten 2 maybe 3 out of Arkansas, Kentucky and Auburn. Georgia outgained us 431-214 though, their center snapped the ball into the endzone on one of their first plays from scrimmage and that made that game look and feel more even for awhile than it really was.

We held UGA and kept them out of the end zone before the half when they had 4 shots at the goal line and held a lead. We beat UGA that first half and it was no fluke or gift as you may be suggesting. We collapsed offensively due to poor QB play the second half and that carried out the rest of the season and cost the staff their jobs ultimately. Easily an example of a coach stubbornly sticking to my way or the highway old school thinking versus being flexible and collaborative 21st century thinking. So he hit the highway.

 

[Cartervol]

We didn't have much of a leader at QB... You lead by example and his was a poor example. Leadership period seemed to be in short supply. Hopefully this guy understands you have to have a few of those on every team.

 

[Majors]

Played the wrong QB

Started a clipboard QB and tried to convince everyone he was an SEC starter.

 

[Mose Phillip's Watch]

We had good recruiting classes and apparently at least 3 NFL caliber coaches. Pruitt, Ansley and Martin.

Actually we didn't have good recruiting once they got here not many panned out

 

[Mose Phillip's Watch]

T-A-L-E-N-T

 

[Mose Phillip's Watch]

No talent

 

[NighthawkVol]

We had good recruiting classes and apparently at least 3 NFL caliber coaches. Pruitt, Ansley and Martin.

Culture.

 

[LWSVOL]

We had good recruiting classes and apparently at least 3 NFL caliber coaches. Pruitt, Ansley and Martin.

you've been witnessing 18 years of crappy administration...

You don't constantly change administrations in any organization and continue to have success. Since Joe Johnson and Doug Dickey left the program has been in turmoil.

Changes were necessary because those in the roles were so terrible deep seated problems throughout the organization continued to fester and create a very poor run football program. Presidents, Chancellors, Athletic Directors, BOT members and Boosters all have contributed to the destruction of the football program. I don't blame any of the coaches that have tried to run football. Coaches are hired by administrations and if they are not qualified to be SEC football coaches, that is not on them.

You can't assess the recent past in the football program without recognizing the long standing root cause of all the problems. In about 5 years we will know if we are still mired in 36-70 SEC type football or do we now have administration that can help right the ship.. don't continue to look back at just a few years, you will remain confused.

 

[sjt18]

T-A-L-E-N-T

That comes nowhere close to explaining how bad they've been.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I think it all boils down to lack of leadership at all levels; the Athletic Department, the Coaching staff, and the team. No one has stepped up in any of those areas to consistently accept full responsibility and accountability for excellence. The have been some flashes on the team like with JJ but they don’t carry over to the Next squad.

 

[LWSVOL]

I think it all boils down to lack of leadership at all levels; the Athletic Department, the Coaching staff, and the team. No one has stepped up in any of those areas to consistently accept full responsibility and accountability for excellence. The have been some flashes on the team like with JJ but they don’t carry over to the Next squad.

coaches have no chance with weak leadership..

 

[sjt18]

Butch has been a proven winner as a head coach

Not really. If you peel even one more layer of that onion back it reveals that he had a terrible record against teams with a winning record prior to being hired by UT. The one year he played a lot of teams that finished with winning records... he went 4-8. He underperformed his talent every year at UT... and a close look at his past would have predicted that.

and none of us should be surprised if he is again in his new job.

Depends on the competition he faces. He might be a mid-major HC. He's not a P-5 HC and unlike Pruitt he isn't a good enough coach to be an NFL level assistant.

He even had a winning record at UT (disclaimer: no, he was obviously not the man for the job). Getting a proven winner from a P5 school is, as you suggested, not a realistic expectation -- especially now, given the current state of the program. For that reason, I think Heupel is about as good as we could expect. He checks off more boxes than Pruitt did, for sure.

Bottom line: there's no such thing as a can't miss hire. We can only throw our support behind Heupel like we did for the previous coaches and hope for the best.

The bolded statement is the key thing everyone needs to understand. There are really only a handful of guys that you can call "can't miss". Saban is the most obvious. Most who win are good coaches who walk into great situations.

Most of the "sure fire" coaches hired over the last few years like Morris, Sumlin, Herman,.... have failed to live up to expectations.

There are no magic potions. You have to hold a high standard and keep looking until you find the right guy.

 

[LWSVOL]

Not really. If you peel even one more layer of that onion back it reveals that he had a terrible record against teams with a winning record prior to being hired by UT. The one year he played a lot of teams that finished with winning records... he went 4-8. He underperformed his talent every year at UT... and a close look at his past would have predicted that.

Depends on the competition he faces. He might be a mid-major HC. He's not a P-5 HC and unlike Pruitt he isn't a good enough coach to be an NFL level assistant.


The bolded statement is the key thing everyone needs to understand. There are really only a handful of guys that you can call "can't miss". Saban is the most obvious. Most who win are good coaches who walk into great situations.

Most of the "sure fire" coaches hired over the last few years like Morris, Sumlin, Herman,.... have failed to live up to expectations.

There are no magic potions. You have to hold a high standard and keep looking until you find the right guy.

agree on no sure fire hires. Here is bottom line on going after championships...

Great success starts with having stud players, check out the football playoff teams..

coaches still have to develop them and put them in the proper place to be successful, even the stud players. Check out the football playoff teams.

You don't get into playoffs or winning Championships without both.. BUT, you have to start with great players on the roster. Really great coaches don't win championships with mules.

The 90s proved it at Tennessee... the football playoffs prove it in today's college football world. Get studs or sit on the sideline no matter the coach but the coach has to help even the studs when one gets them.

 

[sjt18]

agree on no sure fire hires. Here is bottom line on going after championships...

Great success starts with having stud players, check out the football playoff teams..

coaches still have to develop them and put them in the proper place to be successful, even the stud players. Check out the football playoff teams.

You don't get into playoffs or winning Championships without both.. BUT, you have to start with great players on the roster. Really great coaches don't win championships with mules.

The 90s proved it at Tennessee... the football playoffs prove it in today's college football world. Get studs or sit on the sideline no matter the coach but the coach has to help even the studs when one gets them.

Agree. However the coach chooses, recruits, and signs the players. Within 3 years, a coach has either made the kind of progress that he can make recruits believe in... or recruits turn a cold shoulder and look for the next "new" thing.

I don't think a lot of people understand how narrow the window of opportunity is for any coach at any school. They need to be able to claim early success or the players they need to win... stop listening. For Heupel, that bar is lower than it was for Jones or even Pruitt. If he can get off the mat and win 8 or 9 games within 3 years then he can show recruits that he has the program moving in the right direction.

 

[Hacksaw]

Not really. If you peel even one more layer of that onion back it reveals that he had a terrible record against teams with a winning record prior to being hired by UT. The one year he played a lot of teams that finished with winning records... he went 4-8. He underperformed his talent every year at UT... and a close look at his past would have predicted that.

Depends on the competition he faces. He might be a mid-major HC. He's not a P-5 HC and unlike Pruitt he isn't a good enough coach to be an NFL level assistant.


The bolded statement is the key thing everyone needs to understand. There are really only a handful of guys that you can call "can't miss". Saban is the most obvious. Most who win are good coaches who walk into great situations.

Most of the "sure fire" coaches hired over the last few years like Morris, Sumlin, Herman,.... have failed to live up to expectations.

There are no magic potions. You have to hold a high standard and keep looking until you find the right guy.

Butch has a winning record as a head coach. You can peel that onion as much as you want, but that's just a factual statement.

As for "keep looking until you find the right guy" -- if it were only that simple. Being on a constant hiring/firing merry-go-round while you look for him only makes it harder for "the right guy" to be successful when we finally hire him.

 

[Vol8188]

We had good recruiting classes and apparently at least 3 NFL caliber coaches. Pruitt, Ansley and Martin.

They were nfl caliber before. They are in the nfl now because they may not be welcome back in college football for a few years.

The issue was lack of talent at the most important positions (qb, wr, and db)

 

[99gator]

That comes nowhere close to explaining how bad they've been.

It’s the biggest factor.

Think of the Tennessee teams that won in the 90s and ask how many of these guys get PT. Not many.

Development is obviously key. But, the raw material, despite popular opinion, is not there.

Everyone talks about talent, but there is nothing tangible that provides any proof that it’s there.

 

[CoolVolEli]

It was much deeper than quarterback play, lack of talent or bad defense, the reality of it is that we didn’t have a championship culture to build championship mind sets.

But Butch said we were champions of life! lol.

 

[Tman44]

We had good recruiting classes and apparently at least 3 NFL caliber coaches. Pruitt, Ansley and Martin.

Poor Coaching. Poor QB play. Mishandling the QB position. ZERO player development. Lack of peer leadership amongst the team. Loss of all possible off-season preparation due to COVID-19. A'ight?