What Most of You Don't Want to Hear - The Truth

#51
#51
Boston Vol said:
We did have an incompetent AD who made a poor choice in hiring Kiffin. Still doesn't mean Fulmer didn't deserve to be fired.
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In honesty, I do actually think not firing Fulmer would have been a mistake, but the hiring Kiffin and Dooley were absolutely the larger mistakes. Impatience + Lack of Plan = Disaster

This board spent years arguing the pros and cons of firing Fulmer, and analyzing the mistakes he made game by game, recruit by recruit. Right?

Yet, how much time did anyone spend thinking about the next step forward? Even, Hamilton didn't spend any time thinking about it!

Do we want to spend the next couple of years just reacting emotionally to what is happening on the field and creating a poisoned atmosphere? We can do that. We are really, really good at doing that.

Or, we could try to be patient and see how this plays out.

What I actually think:

1) Butch Jones, while a flawed coach, is light years ahead of Kiffin and Dooley.
2) We have talent coming in finally that will be transformational.
3) We now have an AD who showed he is not willing to give a bad extension to a mediocre coach. The fact that we are giving Dooley 1.25 million a year is enough to induce a seizure.
4) It is almost impossible to be objective about these things--when we lose we hurt like few fanbases can even imagine--but that also makes this fanbase special.
I hope we can dial it down a little, but I don't expect it.
5) If we can step back a bit, the last 22 months have been a heck of a ride. This is the most fascinating moment I can remember since I've been following Tennessee football. Every recruit, every play, every practice seems so critical, so make-or-break.
6) Go Big Orange Forever.
 
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#52
#52
MedicT said:
Yeah, those 2 losing seasons out of 10 post the NC speak volumes to your conclusion that the game had passed him by.
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And it's not just the fact that losing seasons happened. You have to take into account who he had. 2005 was projected to contend for the national championship. Instead, we stumbled out of the gates against UAB and the entire season quickly went down the crapper. He had talent that was squandered and basically imposed a Fulmer Sanction on the Vols by the end of his tenure with how poor the trenches were left.
 
#54
#54
Rifleman said:
In honesty, I do actually think not firing Fulmer would have been a mistake, but the hiring Kiffin and Dooley were absolutely the larger mistakes. Impatience + Lack of Plan = Disaster

This board spent years arguing the pros and cons of firing Fulmer, and analyzing the mistakes he made game by game, recruit by recruit. Right?

Yet, how much time did anyone spend thinking about the next step forward? Even, Hamilton didn't spend any time thinking about it!

Do we want to spend the next couple of years just reacting emotionally to what is happening on the field and creating a poisoned atmosphere? We can do that. We are really, really good at doing that.

Or, we could try to be patient and see how this plays out.

What I actually think:

1) Butch Jones, while a flawed coach, is light years ahead of Kiffin and Dooley.
2) We have talent coming in finally that will be transformational.
3) We now have an AD who showed he is not willing to give a bad extension to a mediocre coach. The fact that we are giving Dooley 1.25 million a year is enough to induce a seizure.
4) It is almost impossible to be objective about these things--when we lose we hurt like few fanbases can even imagine--but that also make this fanbase special.
I hope we can dial it down a little, but I don't expect it.
5) If we can step back a bit, the last 22 months have been a heck of a ride. This is the most fascinating moment I can remember since I've been following Tennessee football. Every recruit, every play, every practice seems so critical, so make-or-break.
6) Go Big Orange Forever.
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I agree
 
#55
#55
MedicT said:
Yeah, those 2 losing seasons out of 10 post the NC speak volumes to your conclusion that the game had passed him by.
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Were you not watching? He was NOT competitive with the top tier teams. UF was blowing him out. Saban owned him. Spurrier had caught him and was mocking him at USCe. He was flat outclassed and the other SEC programs have significantly upgraded their programs since.

You also disclude his last two seasons with Cut... he had losing seasons... including 2005 with as much talent as he ever had.
 
#58
#58
sjt18 said:
Were you not watching? He was NOT competitive with the top tier teams. UF was blowing him out. Saban owned him. Spurrier had caught him and was mocking him at USCe. He was flat outclassed and the other SEC programs have significantly upgraded their programs since.

You also disclude his last two seasons with Cut... he had losing seasons... including 2005 with as much talent as he ever had.
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#59
#59
sjt18 said:
With Cutcliffe, Fulmer was 82-19. Together they had 2 SEC championships and another CG appearance after Cut returned. Cut's O's were difficult to stop. The whole team had more discipline.

Without Cut, Fulmer was 71-33. The whole team became undisciplined. Talent was squandered and underdeveloped. The O fell off sharply.


Fulmer's greatest success was "lucking" into having Cut as his OC. His greatest failure was being ineffective in hiring to replace Cut both times he had a chance to do it. The worst part is that he let his personal loyalty to Sanders prevent him from doing what was right for the team. It should not have taken 2005 for Fulmer to recognize that the O had fallen off under Sanders and that he would have to go for UT to get back to the top.

Everything that finally got Fulmer fired was a snowball effect of his inability to hire and discipline an SEC level staff.
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you do realize that even WITHOUT cut he was 71-33....thats 7 and 3 on average back then not counting a bowl...what would you give to be winning 70% of our games????

I am a huge CBJ fan and think he will lead us to the promised land but if the worst records you can pull against CPF is to say he ONLY won 70% of his games...when he wasn't winning more than 70%...uh what? winning 70% of our games this season just might win us the east.
 
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#60
#60
Rifleman said:
The facts are that no Tennessee coach has gone as long as Phil Fulmer between SEC Titles and not been replaced! Think about that! I know we are all too soft these days to put the old bull out to pasture, but I'm real testosterone-filled man behind this keyboard and am fully prepared to let someone else handle this.

So to all the sunshine pumpers who come one here saying we can just replace the OC, but leave Fulmer and John "Third-and-Chavis" in place, stop deluding yourself.

These two guys have a lot of belly, but no fire in those bellies. Fulmer has no recruits lined up that I personally believe in, and I wouldn't believe in them as players even if they came here and fought every down like their lives depended on it.

Chavis will never coach again after Tennessee fires him, and he certainly won't have a good defense in a major conference.

Sure we were in the SEC Championship Game last year, but how many years before we get back there . . . 3 or 4?

That is the kind of patience this fanbase can't be unfairly asked to exhibit. I mean, I am editing this at a redlight and it has been 37 seconds so far and I am really angry. This morning I had to tell a crossing guard off because she thought some snot-nosed runt's safety was more important than me getting to my job at Subway . . . a little late sure, but most people don't realize we serve breakfast so the owner lets me slide . . .

Anyway, please don't tell me Fulmer is the 3rd winningest coach by percentage in SEC history. Look at what he inherited! A program in its prime.

Anybody on this message board would have been in the NCAA Hall of Fame with that situation. Any kindergartner knows that you just have to put 3 or 4 fullbacks in and play power football and all opposition will run toward its own goal line in cowering fear.

I am sick and tired of waiting for Tennessee to be relevant again!

It is time to sack Fulmer! We don't have time to worry about who might be out there to replace him! I saw Mike Hamilton once at the next urinal in an Applebee's and I can just tell that he is a winner who will make the right hire!

Somebody else has the money to make this happen today! Fire Fulmer now! And if anybody tries to come into this thread spewing facts and reason, I'll shake my head and call them an idiot.
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Wtf? What did I miss here?
 
#62
#62
You come into any thread, mine or others, just to take the time to post that it is "a stupid thread".

If this is you, please put me on your ignore list as well. I'm pretty sure you'd be better off not reading my posts and I won't see your responses anyway.

Protip: you can also use thread tools to ignore whole threads, which is a lot easier than going out of your way to be a jackass.
 
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#63
#63
marcusluvsvols said:
you do realize that even WITHOUT cut he was 71-33....thats 7 and 3 on average back then not counting a bowl...what would you give to be winning 70% of our games????

I am a huge CBJ fan and think he will lead us to the promised land but if the worst records you can pull against CPF is to say he ONLY won 70% of his games...when he wasn't winning more than 70%...uh what? winning 70% of our games this season just might win us the east.
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The problem isn't that he was batting .700. It was that his batting average kept getting worse and worse as the SEC got better and better. And when he was losing, he wasn't even competitive.

If Fulmer was still coaching and still admitted to not changing how he did things, he wouldn't even be a Top 10 coach in the conference.
 
#64
#64
Rifleman said:
You come into any thread, mine or others, just to take the time to post that it is "a stupid thread".

If this is you, please put me on your ignore list as well. I'm pretty sure you'd be better off not reading my posts and I won't see your responses anyway.

Protip: you can also use thread tools to ignore whole threads, which is a lot easier than going out of your way to be a jackass.
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for what it's worth, it's a damn stupid thread
 
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#66
#66
sjt18 said:
Yes. But I think you know it is a different SEC now. That level of play probably doesn't yield a winning record now.

More than that was direction. Cut's return kind of plugged the dike for a couple of years but he couldn't correct everything that was wrong. After he was gone, the dam broke. At the end sans Cut, Fulmer was 10-13 and was struggling to beat UK and Vandy BEFORE they improved. He actually lost to Vandy in 2005 with one of the most talented teams he ever had.

Coming from 21-28, 71-33 sounds pretty good. But it isn't where you want to be if you have a stadium that holds 100K and spends the kind of money UT spends.
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Dude, things have gotten worse. UT has lost to KY and Vandy since. Fans thought 8 wins was a disappointment then, now they would love to have 8 wins. I had a lot of hope for Jones, but since he lost a 4th quarter, nine point lead to Muschamp, I don't have that hope. (I don't call for his job though. He is here for a couple of years regardless.) If UT would have played conservative, then Florida may have had three possessions in the fourth quarter. They would have had to score two of those three. Instead, Worley is called to stand back there with the ball for too long, and Florida causes a fumble with great position. Moreover, this OL has not improved one bit. The tackles need to at least put a hat on someone. They are playing with there hands in there pockets!? Next, year we will have a new qb and the same line. The line is not being over powered as much as just blown away without putting a hand on someone. I just hope to see some improvement on the OL in the Ole Miss game.

UT has done well by sticking with tradition. Coaches that have had experience with UT football. That is what I would have preferred. (Some might hold Dickey (when a coach) as an exception, but I am old enough to liken his departure second to Kiffin.)

The SEC East is weak right now. We could be taken advantage of that.
 
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#69
#69
smokey90 said:
Dude, things have gotten worse. UT has lost to KY and Vandy since. Fans thought 8 wins was a disappointment then, now they would love to have 8 wins. I had a lot of hope for Jones, but since he lost a 4th quarter, nine point lead to Muschamp, I don't have that hope. (I don't call for his job though. He is here for a couple of years regardless.) If UT would have played conservative, then Florida may have had three possessions in the fourth quarter. They would have had to score two of those three. Instead, Worley is called to stand back there with the ball for too long, and Florida causes a fumble with great position. Moreover, this OL has not improved one bit. The tackles need to at least put a hat on someone. They are playing with there hands in there pockets!? Next, year we will have a new qb and the same line. The line is not being over powered as much as just blown away without putting a hand on someone. I just hope to see some improvement on the OL in the Ole Miss game.

UT has done well by sticking with tradition. Coaches that have had experience with UT football. That is what I would have preferred. (Some might hold Dickey (when a coach) as an exception, but I am old enough to liken his departure second to Kiffin.)

The SEC East is weak right now. We could be taken advantage of that.
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Just who would fit this description? CPF doesn't have a coaching tree behind him, if anything a shrub.
 
#71
#71
CountVolcula said:
If I start off winning 152 games straight

Then I lose 52 in a row

I end up being 152-52

Guess what?

I was an awesome coach to start with and a bad coach at the end

You have to look between the lines and simple not at the overall record
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so we should ignore that 10 months before he was fired we were at the SECCG?
 
#73
#73
GreveHaller said:
so we should ignore that 10 months before he was fired we were at the SECCG?
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Should we ignore 2001 when he should have won his second NC but blew the SECCG to an inferior team? Should we ignore 2005 and 2006?
 
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