What Most of You Don't Want to Hear - The Truth

#28
#28
sjt18 said:
Pretty much.... while ignoring the fact that the ditch UT has been in over the last 6 years is EXACTLY where Fulmer put the program. You can blame others for not correcting it... but not for causing it.

His recruiting was horrible at the end. If he got talented players, his team discipline was so poor that they were far more likely to be gone before making the two deep than ever contributing in a meaningful way. He left the team with ONE... DT. Not one plus a bunch of guys who weren't SEC level talents. Nope. Just one.

He hadn't been able to recruit OL's or DT's for several cycles.

Both Kiffin and Dooley struggled in part because of the roster Fulmer left. If you blame Dooley for leaving Jones a bad roster then honesty demands that you are honest about the mess Fulmer left in his wake.

As for Chavis, LSU is now mid-pack in scoring and total D after being a perennial top 3 D in the SEC before he arrived. Versus FBS opponents, UT actually ranks higher than LSU in total D, scoring D, yds per play, rushing D, sacks, and INT's.

UT doesn't have more talent on D and the Vols have played a stronger schedule.

I know there's a strong emotional attachment to Chavis but IMO he was always overrated as a DC. Great LB coach. Good at developing talent. But not much help recruiting and weak at playcalling and gameplanning.
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Fulmer, and Fulmer alone, is responsible for every bad thing that happened to us and we need to fire him immediately.

This is a black and white issue. Fulmer is the cancer. Once we excise the cancer we will be on the upswing. Once he's fired, everything will work out because this is Tennessee and this fanbase will not accept anything less than championships.

It really isn't a complex, multi-layered, situation that needs careful consideration and long-term planning on a number of levels. It is so easy to fix that any idiot could fix it in 10 minutes.
 
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#29
#29
Rifleman said:
Fulmer, and Fulmer alone, is responsible for every bad thing that happened to us and we need to fire him immediately.

This is a black and white issue. Fulmer is the cancer. Once we excise the cancer we will be on the upswing. Once he's fired, everything will work out because this is Tennessee and this fanbase will not accept anything less than championships.

It really isn't a complex, multi-layered, situation that needs careful consideration and long-term planning on a number of levels. It is so easy to fix that any idiot could fix it in 10 minutes.
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Nope Mike Hamilton deserves just as much blame. If he had hired Gary Patterson or Brian Kelly in 2009, competing for championships wouldn't be an issue now.
 
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#30
#30
The original poster is forgetting how bad things were under Fulmer after the 2001 SEC title game debacle.

Fulmer only had three 10 win seasons after that and 2 SEC title game appearances.
 
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#32
#32
MedicT said:
Oh Yeah......Fulmer and Company had no idea what they were doing. :finger3:
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Preaching to the choir. He was a horrible play caller all the way back to the early 1990's. I would have fired him then.

Any coach that takes this job needs to know that 152-52 don't get it done at Tennessee.
 
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#33
#33
Have we started the hire Phillip Fulmer for HC thread yet? I've been waiting 7 years now to get that thread going.
 
#34
#34
If I start off winning 152 games straight

Then I lose 52 in a row

I end up being 152-52

Guess what?

I was an awesome coach to start with and a bad coach at the end

You have to look between the lines and simple not at the overall record
 
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#36
#36
99gator said:
The original poster is forgetting how bad things were under Fulmer after the 2001 SEC title game debacle.

Fulmer only had three 10 win seasons after that and 2 SEC title game appearances.
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My point exactly.

Fulmer has been in decline for 7 years now. Imagine the list of quality coaching candidates our AD must have assembled in that time!

There is just no way that we don't improve our situation. I mean, imagine how incompetent an AD would have to be with Fulmer's current track record to not have a proven coach lined up to fill the breach.
 
#37
#37
Rifleman said:
Exactly! The guy is useless. 152-52 and only one BCS Championship.
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With Cutcliffe, Fulmer was 82-19. Together they had 2 SEC championships and another CG appearance after Cut returned. Cut's O's were difficult to stop. The whole team had more discipline.

Without Cut, Fulmer was 71-33. The whole team became undisciplined. Talent was squandered and underdeveloped. The O fell off sharply.


Fulmer's greatest success was "lucking" into having Cut as his OC. His greatest failure was being ineffective in hiring to replace Cut both times he had a chance to do it. The worst part is that he let his personal loyalty to Sanders prevent him from doing what was right for the team. It should not have taken 2005 for Fulmer to recognize that the O had fallen off under Sanders and that he would have to go for UT to get back to the top.

Everything that finally got Fulmer fired was a snowball effect of his inability to hire and discipline an SEC level staff.
 
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#38
#38
sjt18 said:
Pretty much.... while ignoring the fact that the ditch UT has been in over the last 6 years is EXACTLY where Fulmer put the program. You can blame others for not correcting it... but not for causing it.

His recruiting was horrible at the end. If he got talented players, his team discipline was so poor that they were far more likely to be gone before making the two deep than ever contributing in a meaningful way. He left the team with ONE... DT. Not one plus a bunch of guys who weren't SEC level talents. Nope. Just one.

He hadn't been able to recruit OL's or DT's for several cycles.

Both Kiffin and Dooley struggled in part because of the roster Fulmer left. If you blame Dooley for leaving Jones a bad roster then honesty demands that you are honest about the mess Fulmer left in his wake.

As for Chavis, LSU is now mid-pack in scoring and total D after being a perennial top 3 D in the SEC before he arrived. Versus FBS opponents, UT actually ranks higher than LSU in total D, scoring D, yds per play, rushing D, sacks, and INT's.

UT doesn't have more talent on D and the Vols have played a stronger schedule.

I know there's a strong emotional attachment to Chavis but IMO he was always overrated as a DC. Great LB coach. Good at developing talent. But not much help recruiting and weak at playcalling and gameplanning.
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You're going to get flamed whilst being correct. :thumbsup:
 
#39
#39
sjt18 said:
With Cutcliffe, Fulmer was 82-19. Together they had 2 SEC championships and another CG appearance after Cut returned. Cut's O's were difficult to stop. The whole team had more discipline.

Without Cut, Fulmer was 71-33. The whole team became undisciplined. Talent was squandered and underdeveloped. The O fell off sharply.


Fulmer's greatest success was "lucking" into having Cut as his OC. His greatest failure was being ineffective in hiring to replace Cut both times he had a chance to do it. The worst part is that he let his personal loyalty to Sanders prevent him from doing what was right for the team. It should not have taken 2005 for Fulmer to recognize that the O had fallen off under Sanders and that he would have to go for UT to get back to the top.

Everything that finally got Fulmer fired was a snowball effect of his inability to hire and discipline an SEC level staff.
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you'd kill for 71-33.

I'd kill for 71-33 right now.
 
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#40
#40
Rifleman said:
My point exactly.

Fulmer has been in decline for 7 years now. Imagine the list of quality coaching candidates our AD must have assembled in that time!

There is just no way that we don't improve our situation. I mean, imagine how incompetent an AD would have to be with Fulmer's current track record to not have a proven coach lined up to fill the breach.
Click to expand...

We did have an incompetent AD who made a poor choice in hiring Kiffin. Still doesn't mean Fulmer didn't deserve to be fired.
 
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#41
#41
MedicT said:
Oh Yeah......Fulmer and Company had no idea what they were doing. :finger3:
Click to expand...

The game passed them by and Fulmer refused to change, discipline his players, and discipline his staff.

By the end, Fulmer in fact was living in a fantasy land. He really didn't have any idea what he was doing. He stated that "We've won a lot of games around here doing what we're doing and we ain't changing now". This was in spite of the fact that he was no longer competitive with the upper tier programs and the others were quickly closing ground.

Recruits weren't listening anymore. Parents were hesitant to send their kids to a program with so many players getting in trouble.

If you actually lived through that mess.... then you really have no excuse for not seeing that the problems had gotten past the point where Fulmer could recover.
 
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#47
#47
99gator said:
you'd kill for 71-33.

I'd kill for 71-33 right now.
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Yes. But I think you know it is a different SEC now. That level of play probably doesn't yield a winning record now.

More than that was direction. Cut's return kind of plugged the dike for a couple of years but he couldn't correct everything that was wrong. After he was gone, the dam broke. At the end sans Cut, Fulmer was 10-13 and was struggling to beat UK and Vandy BEFORE they improved. He actually lost to Vandy in 2005 with one of the most talented teams he ever had.

Coming from 21-28, 71-33 sounds pretty good. But it isn't where you want to be if you have a stadium that holds 100K and spends the kind of money UT spends.
 
#48
#48
sjt18 said:
The game passed them by and Fulmer refused to change, discipline his players, and discipline his staff.

By the end, Fulmer in fact was living in a fantasy land. He really didn't have any idea what he was doing. He stated that "We've won a lot of games around here doing what we're doing and we ain't changing now". This was in spite of the fact that he was no longer competitive with the upper tier programs and the others were quickly closing ground.

Recruits weren't listening anymore. Parents were hesitant to send their kids to a program with so many players getting in trouble.

If you actually lived through that mess.... then you really have no excuse for not seeing that the problems had gotten past the point where Fulmer could recover.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those 2 losing seasons out of 10 post the NC speak volumes to your conclusion that the game had passed him by.
 
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#49
#49
sjt18 said:
With Cutcliffe, Fulmer was 82-19. Together they had 2 SEC championships and another CG appearance after Cut returned. Cut's O's were difficult to stop. The whole team had more discipline.

Without Cut, Fulmer was 71-33. The whole team became undisciplined. Talent was squandered and underdeveloped. The O fell off sharply.


Fulmer's greatest success was "lucking" into having Cut as his OC. His greatest failure was being ineffective in hiring to replace Cut both times he had a chance to do it. The worst part is that he let his personal loyalty to Sanders prevent him from doing what was right for the team. It should not have taken 2005 for Fulmer to recognize that the O had fallen off under Sanders and that he would have to go for UT to get back to the top.

Everything that finally got Fulmer fired was a snowball effect of his inability to hire and discipline an SEC level staff.
Click to expand...

If we get blown out of the water in the Cotton Bowl by A&M, we might (probably not but who knows) have fired Fulmer after 2005. 3-straight horrific bowl losses and a 5-6 season might have accomplished it. The last 9 seasons play out far differently if the talent from 2006-on isn't squandered.
 
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