What is your definition of success?

#1
Doyle Hargraves

Doyle Hargraves

Trump's diaper is full again
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#1
There is constant debate here about if Butch has been successful or will ever be successful. So, I thought I would ask you guys to post your definition of ultimate success for UT football and Jones.


Personally, my definition would be to see us the favorites or at least one of the favorites to win the east every year. I would like to see Tennessee making it to Atlanta at the very least once every two to three years. We need to close the gap with bama and become competitive with them on a yearly basis and actually beating them at least half of the time. Tennessee needs to win the SEC at least three to four times in a decade. For me a national championship would just be a cherry on top.

That's my definition. Some may say it's too lofty and unreasonable and others may argue it's not lofty enough. So, tell me your definition.
 
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#2
#2
Doyle Hargraves said:
There is constant debate here about if Butch has been successful or will ever be successful. So, I thought I would ask you guys to post your definition of ultimate success for UT football and Jones.


Personally, my definition would be to see us the favorites or at least one of the favorites to win the east every year. I would like to see Tennessee making it to Atlanta at the very least once every two to three years. We need to close the gap with bama and become competitive with them on a yearly basis and actually beating them at least half of the time. Tennessee needs to win the SEC at least three to four times in a decade. For me a national championship would just be a cherry on top.

That's my definition. Some may say it's too lofty and unreasonable and others may argue it's not lofty enough. So, tell me your definition.
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Because of the parity in CFB those expectations aren't unrealistic. :no:
 
#4
#4
we should be ranked top 10 or 15 at the least every year..we should win the east at least half the time and we need to win the SEC championship at least 1 in every 3 or 4 years...yes a national title we would be great also every once in a while...I do not want hype...I want results...GBO VFL
 
#6
#6
Remember Johnny Majors? This isn't a thread about Johnny Majors...
 
#7
#7
I believe we won the the east every 3 years under Fulmer.

That should be the base line at a minimum.
 
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#8
#8
I posted this in another thread, it's at least how I feel.....

Nobody rational sees Alabama level success as the goal. They have become a self-sustaining, perpetual motion machine (which started by thinking BIG about a coach). They are an anomaly in the entire landscape of college football. Thinking people understand that.

I think we are looking for LSU, Clemson, Oklahoma, Florida State type results. Traditionally we are that type of program, whether we want to accept it or not. We want to be relevant and compete with the top 10-15 programs in the country. That will occasionally get you in the bigger conversation. That's enough....But right now there isn't a commitment to that from the coach, administration, and apparently many of the fans.
 
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#9
#9
Doyle Hargraves said:
Personally, my definition would be to see us the favorites or at least one of the favorites to win the east every year.
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Agree we should be in discussion every year. One could argue that was met the last two years.

I would like to see Tennessee making it to Atlanta at the very least once every two to three years.
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Okay with this one - point of debate is going to be when the clock on this one should have started considering the mess Tennessee was in when Jones took over.

We need to close the gap with bama and become competitive with them on a yearly basis and actually beating them at least half of the time.
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This would imply changing the history of this series. The series has been streaks of wins on both sides. It has never been a back and forth series. So when Tennessee finally wins, I expect multiple wins in a row.

Tennessee needs to win the SEC at least three to four times in a decade.
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Based on your other criteria above, you expect Tennessee to win the SEC every time they make it to the championship game. I would settle winning 50% of the time we make it to the game.

For me a national championship would just be a cherry on top.
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Given that we have only won 6 in the history of the school I tend to view this the same way.

Other things I would add:

- Football team meets APR expectations.
- Football players are good student citizens (e.g. don't want a team full of players that are making the news for activities outside of football)
- Players being drafted to the NFL. Need to restart that streak and not let it end.
 
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#11
#11
jctenn1 said:
we should be ranked top 10 or 15 at the least every year..we should win the east at least half the time and we need to win the SEC championship at least 1 in every 3 or 4 years...yes a national title we would be great also every once in a while...I do not want hype...I want results...GBO VFL
Click to expand...

what "they" told Coach Richt...right before they fired him...:)

GO VOLS!
 
#12
#12
10+ wins 75% of the time. Favorite to win or appearance in SECCG 50% of the time. Natty once every 7-10 years
 
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#13
#13
Butch needs the equity of a big season, where we're in SECCG and NY6 bowl. In other words, if we didn't tank it in 4th quarter games last year and had 10, 11 or even 12 wins, then outside of WHO we lost to, most would probably give more lenience on TY results. The problem, w/ a decent 9 win season TY, even though had massive injuries and probably some bad player mojo (Hurd/Williams), is that we were SO close to SECCG and/or Sugar Bowl, and LY felt the same. As long as we're in the hunt most years for SECCG, and having an appearance once every 2-3 years, I think most would be OK, and be more tolerable of 8-9 win seasons where things just don't work out.
 
#14
#14
orangeluvr said:
Because of the parity in CFB those expectations aren't unrealistic. :no:
Click to expand...

So you are satisfied with being average?

Those expectations are a little high IMO. Winning the SEC 3 or 4 times a decade would be a pretty extraordinary level of success. But winning the East that many with a couple of SEC championships per decade is completely "realistic" with the RIGHT coach.
 
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#15
#15
'Boro-vol said:
I posted this in another thread, it's at least how I feel.....

Nobody rational sees Alabama level success as the goal. They have become a self-sustaining, perpetual motion machine (which started by thinking BIG about a coach). They are an anomaly in the entire landscape of college football. Thinking people understand that.

I think we are looking for LSU, Clemson, Oklahoma, Florida State type results. Traditionally we are that type of program, whether we want to accept it or not. We want to be relevant and compete with the top 10-15 programs in the country. That will occasionally get you in the bigger conversation. That's enough....But right now there isn't a commitment to that from the coach, administration, and apparently many of the fans.
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Yep.

This is why I find the Jones/Saban comparisons comical.
As far as the conference championship goes its Sabans until he decides he's done with it. That doesn't mean that some of the better programs in the conference won't slip one away from him on occasion but in an overall sense he owns the conference.

Its an interesting question and also involves moving parts in regards to the landmarks to success (division championships, SEC championships and NCs).

In other words, in Jones case success is not gonna be defined by most based off whether he's able to topple Saban because no one expects him to do that. He's not in that league. He will be judged by whether or not he can win a division littered with average to bad coaches. He doesn't have Spurrier, Meyer, or Saban to go through to win his division.

Thats the biggest reason why the "so and so didn't win a NC until his 7th year" measuring stick is funny for me. I don't think thats his ability to begin with.
 
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#16
#16
Doyle Hargraves said:
There is constant debate here about if Butch has been successful or will ever be successful. So, I thought I would ask you guys to post your definition of ultimate success for UT football and Jones.


Personally, my definition would be to see us the favorites or at least one of the favorites to win the east every year. I would like to see Tennessee making it to Atlanta at the very least once every two to three years. We need to close the gap with bama and become competitive with them on a yearly basis and actually beating them at least half of the time. Tennessee needs to win the SEC at least three to four times in a decade. For me a national championship would just be a cherry on top.

That's my definition. Some may say it's too lofty and unreasonable and others may argue it's not lofty enough. So, tell me your definition.
Click to expand...

On the same page with you.
 
#19
#19
I don't think it's a win total or sec championship appearances because those can fluctuate based on circumstance. For instance, the east has been abysmal recently. A very average football team could've won 9 games and represented the east in Atlanta. I don't think that would make us a successful football team.

I think it's perception. Do people believe Tennessee can beat anyone on any given Saturday no matter if we are playing in Neyland or a Denny's parking lot? If the answer is yes, we are successful.
 
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#20
#20
Success...

- Win the East 40% of the time or more... finish no worse than 2nd 90% of the time.
- Lose to inferior opponents no more than twice per decade (I think that's about what Fulmer did.... Jones averages more than 1 per year so far).
- Average an "upset win" once per year. So far Jones has one if you count USCe a couple of years ago. Fulmer very seldom did it. This is a direct reflection of the talent of the HC... and will always result in an ascending program.
- Maintain no worse than an "average" level of injuries and player attrition.
- Compete for the best talent in the country on a yearly basis.
- Maintain academics and off the field discipline.

That should do.
 
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#21
#21
BeecherVol said:
Yep.

This is why I find the Jones/Saban comparisons comical.
As far as the conference championship goes its Sabans until he decides he's done with it. That doesn't mean that some of the better programs in the conference won't slip one away from him on occasion but in an overall sense he owns the conference.

Its an interesting question and also involves moving parts in regards to the landmarks to success (division championships, SEC championships and NCs).

In other words, in Jones case success is not gonna be defined by most based off whether he's able to topple Saban because no one expects him to do that. He's not in that league. He will be judged by whether or not he can win a division littered with average to bad coaches. He doesn't have Spurrier, Meyer, or Saban to go through to win his division.

Thats the biggest reason why the "so and so didn't win a NC until his 7th year" measuring stick is funny for me. I don't think thats his ability to begin with.
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Truth. Even though Bama has dominated, plenty of teams have risen up to punch them in the nose. LSU, Auburn and Florida have done it. Tennessee hasn't. That's a failure. He'll even Ole Piss beat them twice in a row.

We may not win 4 titles in a row but we sure as hell can help ruin Bama's season on a regular basis.
 
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#22
#22
People don't fully realize that we play Bama every year. If we had anything other than a blithering idiot for a coach UT could have beaten Bama 2 or 3 times in the last decade and maybe ruined a couple of their national title runs. Bama wouldn't look nearly as great if UT had anything close to a good team and a good coach. That would have been enough to make me feel better.
 
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#23
#23
Doyle Hargraves said:
There is constant debate here about if Butch has been successful or will ever be successful. So, I thought I would ask you guys to post your definition of ultimate success for UT football and Jones.


Personally, my definition would be to see us the favorites or at least one of the favorites to win the east every year. I would like to see Tennessee making it to Atlanta at the very least once every two to three years. We need to close the gap with bama and become competitive with them on a yearly basis and actually beating them at least half of the time. Tennessee needs to win the SEC at least three to four times in a decade. For me a national championship would just be a cherry on top.

That's my definition. Some may say it's too lofty and unreasonable and others may argue it's not lofty enough. So, tell me your definition.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that it is a goal we should set and I believe most of us can agree with it. The questions seems to be how can it be achieved and how long will it take to get there. I think most of us agree that the program had hit rock bottom when Dooley was fired. He had gone through the above average players who were left by Fulmer and the few who Kiffin recruited and were not arrested, dismissed or transferred out.

I have been impressed with the classes CBJ has recruited, not only from the talent aspect but also from the character aspect. His teams have performed much better in the class room than any since the APR was installed. His won-loss record has improved each year except fro this year when we still won nine games. He has gained experience as a SEC coach even thought there has been a couple of bumps in the road. However, he is in good company when compared to many of the so called elite coaches at their same tenure in their coaching history. Would I prefer to have the coaches currently at Alabama and Ohio State? Probably. However, neither of those coaches are available and I have some questions about the character of Meyer. Some of the bumps that occurred costs Tennessee a couple of wins as did a number of untimely injuries to key players, specially in the 2016 season.

I have tried to analyze where I place our football program today compared to where it was in the SEC the last 6-7 years. I would place us behind Alabama, Florida and Georgia. Alabama in a class by its self. Saban is the reason for their position. Florida and Georgia are in their position because of their recruiting bases although we did beat both of them in 2016. I think that LSU has had some real success under Miles, but they will have sme problems with their new head coach and would rank them even to Tennessee. Ole Miss has been able to recruit on a par with most everyone except Alabama and are about equal to TA&M, Tennessee, and Auburn. The rest of the SEC, including Vanderbilt, are competitive and can win if overlooked.

I believe that CBJ can continue to improve Tennessee’s football Program. He has the opportunity to improve his coaching staff as well as improved his recruiting classes. Much of this depends on how well he replaces the coaching changes this Winter. I hope he is successful with his hires and see our program take another step forward. I believe he will do that.

Fire away.
 
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#24
#24
Doyle Hargraves said:
There is constant debate here about if Butch has been successful or will ever be successful. So, I thought I would ask you guys to post your definition of ultimate success for UT football and Jones.
Click to expand...


I mean without a doubt from the dumpster fire we were, with the depleted roster of talents, he has done a decent job of of getting some solid talent here, lost a few guys i wish we coulda got, but that would happen to most coaches. He got us to three straight bowl games and gave me alot of joy attending them to see us crush Iowa, Northwestern and now Nebraska.


I think he can be a success and we as fans can "want more" i mean a guy in Minnesota just got fired for 9 wins because he backed his players, so success is different to everyone individually, but i think so far he has a been a success with glimpses of failures mixed in....rather then failure with glimpses of success.....

this is a big year coming up and i may change my tune obviously, but for now im more less happy with Coach, I just want to see him make more gains next year.
 
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#25
#25
Right now, Jones has built a solid Top 25 program. What I would like us to become is a perennial Top 10 program. Had we not wiffed the USCjr and Vandy games this year, thats where we would have ended up after a bowl win.

Understand that we are proven to be an 8 win (reg season) team right now. My definition of success is a 10 win team. In the SEC, if we can do that consistently, we are a happy people. That gets us the east probably at least 50% of the time and puts us in Atlanta, where we are likely to get whupped by Bama and then get a Top 6 bowl or maybe even a playoff bowl. Some years if we can put 11 wins, win the SEC, win an NC. those are cherries on top - but will come occasionally if we can keep up the consistent 10 wins floor.

Frankly, that is a tall order to do in the SEC, year after year but I think we can do it. Again, except for a perfect storm of injuries, primadonna RBs and coaches getting up to speed, we were there this year. Remains to be seen if CBJ can deliver 10+ wins year after year but I do think he has at least built the framework for it and I can have a realistic expectation of him succeeding.
 
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