What is up with the UT fanbase?

#26
#26
Longsufferingvol said:
I get on here and on the facebook group and it seems like half the fanbase has forgotten what UT football is all about. These are the people who say you are embarrassing if you say anything critical about Jones or the team. I've also seen them rationalize the lack of results with "The SEC is tough" and "Most teams would be happy with an 9-4 record". Have we been in the wilderness so long that people have forgotten that UT is one of the greatest football programs of all time? UT football has won 6 national titles and is at or near the top in a number of categories lncluding bowl appearances and victories and we are only 2nd to Alabama in SEC championships. What's my point? A 9-4 season with losses to Vandy and USCjr would have been seen as very mediocre a decade ago. So why is it ok now? Why are people irrationally defending it? In my opinion, it's a cause for concern. Do we really want to become content with just being mediocre?
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The fan base has been hearing different refrains of "8 wins is enough" from the coaches starting with Fulmer in 2005. Throw in an AD who effectively gave him a lifetime contract if he could win 8 games a season and that's where things have been with the power structure in Knoxville, win enough to keep the seats full. Since Fulmer face planted in 2005 coming into a season with a top 5 ranking, fans have been seeing this team fall short and underachieve for the most part.

11 years and counting of goal posts moving on what fans should want from their team and excuses from 4 consecutive coaches now of why they can't make it to Atlanta.

Not hard to figure out why expectations has slipped.

I don't buy the accepting mediocrity mantra, no one, including Jones, wants that but how they should go about getting past it is the point of contention.
 
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#27
#27
Roger Miller had a song back in the 60's that was covered by Brooks and Dunn called Husbands and Wives. The chorus line was ...it's my belief that Pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of husbands and wives. Imo, pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of reasonable discussions on VN.

Not reading enough of a thread before responding to a comment. "Context "

Misunderstanding a comment. "Reading comprehension ". It doesn't mean you're stupid.

Like recipes in a cook book, comments are formatted for the writers more so than the readers.

Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I see examples of this stuff everyday in every thread. And I just don't buy into "you're not a real fan" or "you're just settling for mediocrity ". I honestly believe that we all want Tennessee to win.

Most of the time it's fun tho. :)
 
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#28
#28
We went 4-4 in a very down year for the East. It's that simple. It also appears that Butch will likely take a step back in year 5. I think the average fan of most programs would be concerned by those two facts. Everything else is window dressing.
 
#29
#29
The recipe for winning football is very simple. Good coaches and good players. The good coaches teach the good players to block and tackle. Outside of that, it's all window dressing.
 
#31
#31
VolFreakJosh said:
The main problem with Butch is he thinks he does no wrong. He believes his philosophy will work in the SEC when in reality, it came back to haunt him. It might have worked in the Big East but the SEC is a whole different ball game where you have faster and more talented players at each position. You're hired to be a HC at a big time program like Tennessee where expectations are high to make necessary decisions to help your team become better whether it's hiring better coordinators, firing coordinators, changing up the offense/defense.

As of right now, we've seen no hints or indication that Butch will go after a proven OC instead of being "loyal" to his buddies and giving them a chance. Your job is basically on the line! Go out there and hire coaches who know what they're doing. Just hand them the keys and let them do their job and run the offense. Butch doesn't have to be a control freak in order to win. The SEC isn't about making friends, it's about winning.

You're right OP, Tennessee is one of the best football programs in the country with a rich tradition of winning. We have a great supportive fanbase who dedicates their lives to watching Tennessee play football in Neyland Stadium every year. Our expectations now have dropped tremendously. Losing to Vandy & South Carolina wasn't acceptable back in the day but it's like it's no big deal now. If some of our fans are happy with 9-4 seasons and getting to a bowl game every year, that's their preference. It doesn't mean that the rest of us should accept mediocrity.

I appreciate everything Butch has done to get our program back at a respectable level but we've seen all we needed to see that he's not the guy to lead us into the future. After Dooley was fired, he was exactly what we needed at the time but those days are over with now. 2017-2018 season will make or break his future here at Tennessee. If Butch hasn't learned from his mistakes by now then he never will.
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He may hire his buddies like Debord, but if they only lost to A&M and Bama, and we're playing in a bigger bowl game, this wouldn't even be questioned. Debord put up huge numbers on offense (and I'll admit that his offense was feast or famine because we punted over 70 times). But our offense has not been the issue this year....... the offense works and wins games (2nd greatest offensive production in school history). The d and injuries was our biggest problem.

Debord was boring. That's the only reason no one liked his offense but if you look at the stats, you can't and shouldn't complain about the production.
 
#32
#32
I get what you're saying. 13 SEC titles is only second to Bama. Jones will get his time. He seems very stubborn, make players fit his system instead of adjust it to fit the players. It's his ship though and he can go down with it , or keep it afloat.

As far as the fanbase is concerned they're all over the map. Some are just fine with mediocrity. Some want titles now, and with Bama in the way probably not going to happen. Firing a coach and restarting is scary too in it's own right. If you do it you have to get the next hire right or we're going to be down a very long time.

What concerns me is if Butch was really shopping himself around then he's not all in.. If your coach is not all in then things usually get messy..
 
#33
#33
I'm not looking past all the history and saying that I'm satisfied with the current state of the program. Tennessee was an elite program, not just decent, for a very long time. But you can't forget the state of the program prior to CBJ's arrival. Tennessee had four losing seasons out of the five seasons before CBJ stepped foot on campus as hc. Fulmer's last year 5-7, Kiffin was 7-6, and Dooley had three losing seasons in a row (6-7, 5-7, 5-7) 28-34 overall (0-2 in bowls). CBJ had a mess to clean up. He had to follow a historic coach who was pushed out the door. A con-artist left in the middle of the night, and a nobody who was riding their last name. Do I wish we were better than we are? Of course? Am i "happy"? No. But I like to think of myself as a realist. CBJ probably isn't the coach to take UT back to the promise land. But I am happy that he's snapped the UF streak, won two straight over a fanbase the proudly misspells dogs, beaten Scar 3 out of 4 times (once when they were #11 in the nation), and has won three bowls in a row in three consecutive seasons(the first time since the early 70's ). Lot's of up and downs. But again, we have to be realists. I'll take CBJ for another year or two. And if he leaves, I hope it's with some dignity, because I'm honestly thankful for what he's done at UT.
 
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#34
#34
Longsufferingvol said:
I get on here and on the facebook group and it seems like half the fanbase has forgotten what UT football is all about. These are the people who say you are embarrassing if you say anything critical about Jones or the team. I've also seen them rationalize the lack of results with "The SEC is tough" and "Most teams would be happy with an 9-4 record". Have we been in the wilderness so long that people have forgotten that UT is one of the greatest football programs of all time? UT football has won 6 national titles and is at or near the top in a number of categories lncluding bowl appearances and victories and we are only 2nd to Alabama in SEC championships. What's my point? A 9-4 season with losses to Vandy and USCjr would have been seen as very mediocre a decade ago. So why is it ok now? Why are people irrationally defending it? In my opinion, it's a cause for concern. Do we really want to become content with just being mediocre?
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Careful... careful.. your gonna get called a negavol.. you're not allowed to question butch,The program, or anything football..
 
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#35
#35
Evet Vols said:
NegaVols just sometimes need to be reminded how bad TN got because they chased off Fulmer. Butch came into a mess and you can't wave a magic wand to fix it.
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Everybody remembers, nobody needs reminding. It's why Jones was given a lot of patience and no expectations of winning anything his first two years. Year 3 Jones actually had us ahead of schedule and it was generally acknowledged......however, he got criticism for losing a couple or 3 games because of poor in game management.

Still, he wasn't drilled by most for not winning an SECeast last year, that was there for the taking, because it was widely thought that 2016 was "THE YEAR", when everything should've set up for him as heavy favorites to play Alabama in the SECCG.....and it was absolutely set up on a tee.....until 2 inexcusable losses to lowly SCar and Vandy.

So don't get it twisted. He has gotten a ton of attaboys and thank yous for cleaning up a mess, job well done. Now, after 4 years, he's getting deserved and earned criticism for a job poorly done after a failed, disappointing season.
 
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#36
#36
Longsufferingvol said:
I get on here and on the facebook group and it seems like half the fanbase has forgotten what UT football is all about. These are the people who say you are embarrassing if you say anything critical about Jones or the team. I've also seen them rationalize the lack of results with "The SEC is tough" and "Most teams would be happy with an 9-4 record". Have we been in the wilderness so long that people have forgotten that UT is one of the greatest football programs of all time? UT football has won 6 national titles and is at or near the top in a number of categories lncluding bowl appearances and victories and we are only 2nd to Alabama in SEC championships. What's my point? A 9-4 season with losses to Vandy and USCjr would have been seen as very mediocre a decade ago. So why is it ok now? Why are people irrationally defending it? In my opinion, it's a cause for concern. Do we really want to become content with just being mediocre?
Click to expand...

You are delusional to think that our next coach will be some big name coach. Tennessee will go after another up and coming coach like Butch. Give Butch a chance to fix things. If Fulmer had been given time to fix things, we could have avoided Kiffin and Dooley.
 
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#37
#37
KBVol said:
Everybody remembers, nobody needs reminding. It's why Jones was given a lot of patience and no expectations of winning anything his first two years. Year 3 Jones actually had us ahead of schedule and it was generally acknowledged......however, he got criticism for losing a couple or 3 games because of poor in game management.

Still, he wasn't drilled by most for not winning an SECeast last year, that was there for the taking, because it was widely thought that 2016 was "THE YEAR", when everything should've set up for him as heavy favorites to play Alabama in the SECCG.....and it was absolutely set up on a tee.....until 2 inexcusable losses to lowly SCar and Vandy.

So don't get it twisted. He has gotten a ton of attaboys and thank yous for cleaning up a mess, job well done. Now, after 4 years, he's getting deserved and earned criticism for a job poorly done after a failed, disappointing season.
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Bingo..what he said.
 
#38
#38
Longsufferingvol said:
I get on here and on the facebook group and it seems like half the fanbase has forgotten what UT football is all about. These are the people who say you are embarrassing if you say anything critical about Jones or the team. I've also seen them rationalize the lack of results with "The SEC is tough" and "Most teams would be happy with an 9-4 record". Have we been in the wilderness so long that people have forgotten that UT is one of the greatest football programs of all time? UT football has won 6 national titles and is at or near the top in a number of categories lncluding bowl appearances and victories and we are only 2nd to Alabama in SEC championships. What's my point? A 9-4 season with losses to Vandy and USCjr would have been seen as very mediocre a decade ago. So why is it ok now? Why are people irrationally defending it? In my opinion, it's a cause for concern. Do we really want to become content with just being mediocre?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is "satisfied" with 9-4. I just think some people are optimists and choose to look for the positive in any given situation. Do I want our football team to be 15-0 and National Champions? Of course, who wouldn't? Am I disappointed we didn't win the East this year? Absolutely! However there's also nothing wrong with celebrating the positives that come our way. We have got to get away from this "all or nothing" mentality. To some, it's either we have to be the greatest or we suck out loud. "If ya' ain't first yer last." You can choose to enjoy the good things that happen and still want to see the program improve. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Some people would just rather be miserable I guess.
 
#39
#39
A lot of us, depending on your age, remember when the Vols were tough, gritty, and when they competed in every game. Not saying they're not tough now, but it is different. It started in the 80's with Majors and ultimately led to a National Championship in '98. We were the dominate team. We got the best recruits and had a top 5 team most years. We didn't win every game back then and we only won one NC, but we were able to compete with anyone in the country. It didn't matter who it was, we felt like we had a chance to win. I think that is what this fan base misses the most. I think most of us are realistic, but I think most want that feeling back that we can play with anyone and have a chance.
 
#40
#40
That's why I only post when I truly have something to say! Most people on here only respond to get a "like" or a laugh. The win now culture and sense of entitlement along with the fact that Google makes the dullest blades feel sharp is what's wrong with our fan base!

I grew up watching UT football in the 90's and believe if we stay the course and path we are on we can contend for sec championships. 9 to 10 win seasons are not bad and I'd much rather go through a season like this past one over the Dooley era any day! I don't like losing any game , the biggest problem I have is losing to Vanderbilt. That should NEVER happen!!
 
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#41
#41
Longsufferingvol said:
I get on here and on the facebook group and it seems like half the fanbase has forgotten what UT football is all about. These are the people who say you are embarrassing if you say anything critical about Jones or the team. I've also seen them rationalize the lack of results with "The SEC is tough" and "Most teams would be happy with an 9-4 record". Have we been in the wilderness so long that people have forgotten that UT is one of the greatest football programs of all time? UT football has won 6 national titles and is at or near the top in a number of categories lncluding bowl appearances and victories and we are only 2nd to Alabama in SEC championships. What's my point? A 9-4 season with losses to Vandy and USCjr would have been seen as very mediocre a decade ago. So why is it ok now? Why are people irrationally defending it? In my opinion, it's a cause for concern. Do we really want to become content with just being mediocre?
Click to expand...

Becuse since 1936 - we have had 19 seasons of 10 wins or more. So realistically that's a "great season" hitting the 9 mark is no small feat... even for your "Tennessee" standard. If you put the mark at 9, it's 33 out of 81 seasons or 40%. So butch is actually above historical average since 1936 of 9 or more win seasons at 50%.
The only part of your argument that holds any water is the fact that after the historic rebuild...
Butch has yet to win 10 or more, which happens about 23% of the time. Note- we didn't win 10 prior to 1936 so started there.

I'd also like to add that even fulmer lost to Wyoming. And we can all agree he was a great coach. Injuries, outside events, players quitting, they all effect the team and coach. Even a coach like fulmer, who has zero business with that team losing to Wyoming, did. Any given Saturday, that's why we play the game. Vandy and South Carolina hurt. And butch knows that. But we had serious issues and still managed to win 9. He's really not as bad as everyone thinks. At least we are unhappy at 9 "again".
 
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#43
#43
I think the bottom line is that Butch isn't going to be fired, nor does he deserve to be. However, he does need to kick some serious butt in the SEC next year to continue here.

Crying about what could've or should've been does nothing but make people seem irrational, doing it over and over and over again makes them seem childish.

Finding any little thing, even false or completely unsubstantiated information, to use as a tool to try and convince everyone else they are right is obsessive and somewhat psychotic.
 
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#44
#44
Memphisvol87 said:
Becuse since 1936 - we have had 19 seasons of 10 wins or more. So realistically that's a "great season" hitting the 9 mark is no small feat... even for your "Tennessee" standard. If you put the mark at 9, it's 33 out of 81 seasons or 40%. So butch is actually above historical average since 1936 of 9 or more win seasons at 50%.
The only part of your argument that holds any water is the fact that after the historic rebuild...
Butch has yet to win 10 or more, which happens about 23% of the time. Note- we didn't win 10 prior to 1936 so started there.

I'd also like to add that even fulmer lost to Wyoming. And we can all agree he was a great coach. Injuries, outside events, players quitting, they all effect the team and coach. Even a coach like fulmer, who has zero business with that team losing to Wyoming, did. Any given Saturday, that's why we play the game. Vandy and South Carolina hurt. And butch knows that. But we had serious issues and still managed to win 9. He's really not as bad as everyone thinks. At least we are unhappy at 9 "again".
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I don't really fault that one on Fulmer. That game took place shortly after Fulmer was fired. The team didn't want to be on the field that day. Now Memphis 96 is another story.
 
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#45
#45
No one is satisfied with a 9-4 season with a loss to Vandy. What we are tired of is the constant griping about CBJ who has brought this program out of the ashes to being a contender again. And it will get better. Pull with us, or stop pulling at all. Don't pull against us. If the day comes when CBJ needs to go, we'll all know it. Nobody was upset about Dooley getting the boot. Right now, CBJ has the Vols on the right track, for the first time in years. Get out of the way.
 
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#46
#46
Enki_Amenra said:
I think the bottom line is that Butch isn't going to be fired, nor does he deserve to be. However, he does need to kick some serious butt in the SEC next year to continue here.

Crying about what could've or should've been does nothing but make people seem irrational, doing it over and over and over again makes them seem childish.

Finding any little thing, even false or completely unsubstantiated information, to use as a tool to try and convince everyone else they are right is obsessive and somewhat psychotic.
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Recruiting has got to pick up. Otherwise the talent gap between us and Georgia is going to be about as bad as it is right now between us and Alabama. I really hope Butch can turn it around but my fear is that he's missed his window. If we had won the East in 2015/2016 I think our recruiting class would look a lot different right now.
 
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#48
#48
Brave Volunteer said:
I don't really fault that one on Fulmer. That game took place shortly after Fulmer was fired. The team didn't want to be on the field that day. Now Memphis 96 is another story.
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Memphis is a way better example, thank you. I agree about the Wyoming game, but we had ten times the talent. My opinion is if it were any coach but fulmer, volnation would never let that one slide. Imagine if it was butch...
 
#49
#49
Behr said:
Roger Miller had a song back in the 60's that was covered by Brooks and Dunn called Husbands and Wives. The chorus line was ...it's my belief that Pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of husbands and wives. Imo, pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of reasonable discussions on VN.

Not reading enough of a thread before responding to a comment. "Context "

Misunderstanding a comment. "Reading comprehension ". It doesn't mean you're stupid.

Like recipes in a cook book, comments are formatted for the writers more so than the readers.

Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I see examples of this stuff everyday in every thread. And I just don't buy into "you're not a real fan" or "you're just settling for mediocrity ". I honestly believe that we all want Tennessee to win.

Most of the time it's fun tho. :)
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