What is the greatest pop song ever written?

#126
#126
LouderVol said:
Not to wonder into the argument too much, but you have a different standard of ugly. Ed Sheeran, yeah he is ugly. no arguments there.

I would guess your other two uglies are Bad Bunny and maybe the Weekend? I don't really know what passes as "hot" guys but I think most would have either of them as average at worst. but really towards the upper levels of average into "attractive".
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I don't it's exclusive to either side. If you've got a great voice and can get good songs put together you can sell some music. Having said that anyone thinking looks don't matter (or can even be a major factor) in the visual age is straight kidding themselves.
 
#127
#127
LouderVol said:
Not to wonder into the argument too much, but you have a different standard of ugly. Ed Sheeran, yeah he is ugly. no arguments there.

I would guess your other two uglies are Bad Bunny and maybe the Weekend? I don't really know what passes as "hot" guys but I think most would have either of them as average at worst. but really towards the upper levels of average into "attractive".
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If Roy Orbison is ugly, so is Drake and Weekend.
 
#128
#128
hndog609 said:
I don't it's exclusive to either side. If you've got a great voice and can get good songs put together you can sell some music. Having said that anyone thinking looks don't matter (or can even be a major factor) in the visual age is straight kidding themselves.
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I agree, I think attractiveness is definitely a multiplier when it comes to music. always has been, at various rates. I think its fair to say that multiple is higher now than it was 50s/60s/70s.

I think where it has changed is more from having your own "look", and focusing on what makes you unique to stand out, to now the focus is more on just being "hot" rather than unique.
 
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#129
#129
n_huffhines said:
If Roy Orbison is ugly, so is Drake and Weekend.
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I am not going to spend too much time on something subjective like that, especially when I have no real dog in the fight, but based on 15 seconds of googling Drake has made several People's lists as one of the hottest people out there. so I really don't see how you can lump him in with Roy Orbison.
 
#130
#130
LouderVol said:
I agree, I think attractiveness is definitely a multiplier when it comes to music. always has been, at various rates. I think its fair to say that multiple is higher now than it was 50s/60s/70s.

I think where it has changed is more from having your own "look", and focusing on what makes you unique to stand out, to now the focus is more on just being "hot" rather than unique.
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It's funny, I had actually been looking for the term to use as a descriptor and after already hitting send I came up with "multiplier" which I think is perfect.

As an aside it's not just music. As you say being hot has always helped. With basically everything being visually supported now it's simply part of the base formula now. It's like being a WR with 4.2 speed. At a minimum you're probably going to get noticed or even given a shot based on that trait. It may or may not pan out in the long run but the advantage at the front end is real. If John Ross hadn't run a 4.22 40 he isn't a 1st round pick for example.
 
#131
#131
LouderVol said:
I am not going to spend too much time on something subjective like that, especially when I have no real dog in the fight, but based on 15 seconds of googling Drake has made several People's lists as one of the hottest people out there. so I really don't see how you can lump him in with Roy Orbison.
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Jason Kelce style

Don't spend any time on it. I just used Roy as the baseline because that was what Neo offered. I personally don't think young Roy Orbison is ugly, but I agree he didn't become a star because of his looks. Neither did Drake.

Drake's music career has literally nothing to do with being naturally good looking. He's hot now to people because he's a zillionaire who makes music they like, and he has a style.

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#132
#132
LouderVol said:
I agree, I think attractiveness is definitely a multiplier when it comes to music. always has been, at various rates. I think its fair to say that multiple is higher now than it was 50s/60s/70s.

I think where it has changed is more from having your own "look", and focusing on what makes you unique to stand out, to now the focus is more on just being "hot" rather than unique.
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Being good looking is helpful to getting ahead in every area of life.

I would guess people "focus" on being hot because it's not as taboo anymore. Elvis wasn't allowed to move his hips on TV, FFS. It sounds like you are saying you think there is less originality today? The music industry offers way more diversity of sound than it ever has (naturally, that's the way things go as we get more art). I don't know how anybody would even argue that a focus on being hot has replaced uniqueness. Bad Bunny, Taylor Swift, Drake, The Weekend, Ariana Grande, and Ed Sheeran are all different. The closest artists there are Drake and Weekend, where you could easily see them using the same beats, but the song is gonna come out completely different.
 
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#134
#134
n_huffhines said:
Being good looking is helpful to getting ahead in every area of life.

I would guess people "focus" on being hot because it's not as taboo anymore. Elvis wasn't allowed to move his hips on TV, FFS. It sounds like you are saying you think there is less originality today? The music industry offers way more diversity of sound then it ever has (naturally, that's the way things go as we get more art). I don't know how anybody would even argue that a focus on being hot has replaced uniqueness. Bad Bunny, Taylor Swift, Drake, The Weekend, Ariana Grande, and Ed Sheeran are all different. The closest artists there are Drake and Weekend, where you could easily see them using the same beats, but the song is gonna come out completely different.
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Imo the biggest difference between older music and the stuff of today on top of the charts, beyond what is popular, is the focus of what people consider good about it.

the music I prefer from older genres was more "complete", subjectively and without any type of musical background. like the song itself, even the album had more going into it than what is present today. most of the albums had a "theme" the songs were part of, maybe not as much on the B side when that was a thing. whether it was an instrument that was being used throughout, or some different chord or pacing or whatever. then the instrumental part of the music was actually celebrated as part of the song, how many drum solos, guitar riffs and otherwise are present today? Something where the artist shuts up for 15 seconds and the instrumentals carry the song. the instruments also set the tone, changed when the singer changed pitch, tone, pacing etc, so on.

the only one on that list I have any real exposure to is Taylor Swift due to my fiance, so she is the only one I can really compare too. What I have heard from Ed Sheeran comes the closest to what I was talking about above. but TS is almost the antithesis, almost. she does have a theme she will pull thru and its likely because she writes her own music so credit there. but the music itself is "flat", not like the notes, but whatever pitch TS starts the song with she carries throughout the whole song. song to song she will vary, but not in a song, so its not as interesting to me to listen to her. same with the music, it never compliments what she is doing. it never carries the song, it holds little to any actual interest. IDK to my fiance its part of TS genius that her fans can take tons of her singing and play it over different songs music and it doesn't lose anything. to me its a loss of "depth" in the song itself that they are interchangeable.

also the amount of "soul" in top charting music has been dead for decades long before any of these guys were around. hardly any of it feels real/important to the artist. idk another subjective thing others probably don't care about.
 
#135
#135
now I will say, there is great music being made, they just won't make the top of the charts. plenty of artists/bands out there that do what I like, even if it isn't "classic rock" played in the 2020s. so I am not hating on new music, just speaking to the experience I have with those artists above.
 
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#137
#137
LouderVol said:
Imo the biggest difference between older music and the stuff of today on top of the charts, beyond what is popular, is the focus of what people consider good about it.

the music I prefer from older genres was more "complete", subjectively and without any type of musical background. like the song itself, even the album had more going into it than what is present today. most of the albums had a "theme" the songs were part of, maybe not as much on the B side when that was a thing. whether it was an instrument that was being used throughout, or some different chord or pacing or whatever. then the instrumental part of the music was actually celebrated as part of the song, how many drum solos, guitar riffs and otherwise are present today? Something where the artist shuts up for 15 seconds and the instrumentals carry the song. the instruments also set the tone, changed when the singer changed pitch, tone, pacing etc, so on.

the only one on that list I have any real exposure to is Taylor Swift due to my fiance, so she is the only one I can really compare too. What I have heard from Ed Sheeran comes the closest to what I was talking about above. but TS is almost the antithesis, almost. she does have a theme she will pull thru and its likely because she writes her own music so credit there. but the music itself is "flat", not like the notes, but whatever pitch TS starts the song with she carries throughout the whole song. song to song she will vary, but not in a song, so its not as interesting to me to listen to her. same with the music, it never compliments what she is doing. it never carries the song, it holds little to any actual interest. IDK to my fiance its part of TS genius that her fans can take tons of her singing and play it over different songs music and it doesn't lose anything. to me its a loss of "depth" in the song itself that they are interchangeable.

also the amount of "soul" in top charting music has been dead for decades long before any of these guys were around. hardly any of it feels real/important to the artist. idk another subjective thing others probably don't care about.
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Definitely the packaging of music has become less album-focused, but that's based on the distribution model. But I would argue there are still plenty of concept albums and acts where the focus is on the non-vocal aspects.

 
#138
#138
LouderVol said:
Not to wonder into the argument too much, but you have a different standard of ugly. Ed Sheeran, yeah he is ugly. no arguments there.

I would guess your other two uglies are Bad Bunny and maybe the Weekend? I don't really know what passes as "hot" guys but I think most would have either of them as average at worst. but really towards the upper levels of average into "attractive".
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Some of my recent favorites that i wouldn't consider "attractive:" Childers, Sturgill, Stephen Wilson Jr, the goofy members of Goose...
 
#139
#139
@LouderVol Have you ever listened to Ed Sheeran's album X in its entirety? It's fantastic and deep in several areas. "Afire Love" is a great example. The journey through Sturgill Simpson's A Sailor's Guide to Earth is another wonderful one. And as referenced above, Daft Punk hit the mark with RAM. Goose finds a nice balance between some cool lyrics and allowing the musicians to explore their songs.

Granted, most of what I listen to isn't "chart topping," but they all have huge followings, both streaming and on the road.
 
#140
#140
kiddiedoc said:
@LouderVol Have you ever listened to Ed Sheeran's album X in its entirety? It's fantastic and deep in several areas. "Afire Love" is a great example. The journey through Sturgill Simpson's A Sailor's Guide to Earth is another wonderful one. And as referenced above, Daft Punk hit the mark with RAM. Goose finds a nice balance between some cool lyrics and allowing the musicians to explore their songs.

Granted, most of what I listen to isn't "chart topping," but they all have huge followings, both streaming and on the road.
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never sat down to listen to any of Ed Sheerans albums. I only know what you would hear on the radio. while I recognize his talent its never really "grabbed" me.
 
#141
#141
LouderVol said:
never sat down to listen to any of Ed Sheerans albums. I only know what you would hear on the radio. while I recognize his talent its never really "grabbed" me.
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Well, if you have time over the holidays, maybe a long drive, flight, or free evening with a little bourbon, give that one a listen. It's easily my favorite of his catalog.
 
#142
#142
The incoherent album situation is kinda sad, but it does make the coherent ones so much more valued. Some of my favorite artists who do it right:

Kendrick Lamar
KiD CuDi
Arcade Fire
Daft Punk
Colter Wall
Lana Del Rey
Lorde
Tyler Childers

Edit: how could I forget my favorite album of 2025, Clipse's Let God Sort Them Out
 
#143
#143
n_huffhines said:
The incoherent album situation is kinda sad, but it does make the coherent ones so much more valued. Some of my favorite artists who do it right:

Kendrick Lamar
KiD CuDi
Arcade Fire
Daft Punk
Colter Wall
Lana Del Rey
Lorde
Tyler Childers

Edit: how could I forget my favorite album of 2025, Clipse's Let God Sort Them Out
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What a wide variety 😂
 
#147
#147
Good Ol' Charlie Brown said:
I did not particularly care for them, which is weird since I enjoy Pink Floyd
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I've given their other stuff a listen, but Whiter Shade of Pale is the only track I've loved.

And Pink Floyd is my favorite classic rock band.

Wish You Were Here
Dark Side of the Moon
Animals

I like The Wall, but I don't rank it with those guys. I listened to Floyd a ton in my disillusioned 20s and kinda played them out. It's not as fun to listen to anymore because it takes me back there.
 
#148
#148
n_huffhines said:
It's the power of the concept album, for real. Procol Harum is one of my favorite bands of all time and 99% of the reason why is they pulled this off

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I actually introduced a friend of mine to that song a couple weeks ago. Most people that know Whiter Shade of Pale (which is a lot) couldn't tell you who sang the song.
 
#150
#150
n_huffhines said:
Music?

The point was that it killed radio, and with regard to pop music, expanded the format. It's not saying it killed music...but it didn't even kill the radio. Radio was alive and well still thru the 90s. Radio was killed by iPods and then streaming...and the irony now is that music videos are relatively dead.
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I think you went in a different direction from what Neo meant, but I remember growing up in the 80s and waiting for the top 10 countdown at night so I could hear and maybe even record a song, you know, greats like Rag Doll, Nightmare on My Street, etc. What a great time to grow up!
 
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