What is really going on with Trump's taxes?

#827
#827
Septic said:
A billion+ in losses? This report isn't remotely surprising. Did anyone really believe he was anything but a fraud? Seriously, he'd have shut his detractors up years ago if he had the receipts, don't think for a second he wouldn't love to prove his wealth to the world.

Looks like damn near everything he touched turned to sht. Fortunately, he's not using a 240 character limit social media platform to direct geopolitical economic policies, so at least we have that going for us.
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Unfortunately, Trump has decided to run the Country like he ran his businesses - piling up historic losses. Remember when he said the Tax Cuts would pay for themselves? Meanwhile, he is adding 1.9 Trillion in debt and accruing historic annual deficits. Just another scam perpetrated by a scam artist.
 
#829
#829
NEOCON said:
Losses due to write downs aren’t true losses.

I stated this would happen and here we are.

Idiots reviewing taxes way over their paygrade.

Example....very simple one....make 100k and buy a 125k navigator. Business writes off navigator all in same year due to gvw.

Business made 100k but shows a loss of 25k.

Why is this so hard for the left to get?
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That's fine in a given year. Maybe a few. But over ten years straight and a billion dollars?

If you think that's just some creative accounting you are delusional.
 
#830
#830
lawgator1 said:
That's fine in a given year. Maybe a few. But over ten years straight and a billion dollars?

If you think that's just some creative accounting you are delusional.
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You would think that the IRS would uncover something illegal...........................nah, I will put my faith in Joe "trump haitin" McCoy to find something if we can only force Trump to release his tax returns to us.
 
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#831
#831
BigOrangeMojo said:
Just a few points:

1. I've been operating off the assumption that if successful, the Dems would try to get both personal and business returns for Trump controlled businesses. They wouldn't be able to fulfill their "legitimate, legislative purpose" (I'm rolling my eyes a bit) without both sets of returns.
2. I think Bloomberg and Forbes have a decent handle on the value of his real estate. Trump may be more leveraged from an interest perspective than he is letting on and you could glean that from Sch. E properties, and from K-1s if owned by p-ship (as well as any business returns if those are released).
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It would be a travesty of justice if he were forced to release any part of his business returns.
 
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#832
#832
TN Ribs said:
Unfortunately, Trump has decided to run the Country like he ran his businesses - piling up historic losses. Remember when he said the Tax Cuts would pay for themselves? Meanwhile, he is adding 1.9 Trillion in debt and accruing historic annual deficits. Just another scam perpetrated by a scam artist.
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While I agree that he has allowed our debt to balloon, the only differences between him an Hillary on this subject is we're paying less in taxes. Our debt would have ballooned just as fast and probably more under her reign.
 
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#837
#837
For those who don't understand how 10 years losses is possible, here is the easiest answer as to why.

Real estate developers must capitalize all of the costs of development of the property (direct costs and indirect costs) If you don't know what these are, go read and learn.

****No deductions are available for tax purposes until the property is either put into service or sold.

So, imagine the time to build or rehab a high rise, the above direct and indirect costs, and add in multiple jobs at one time, and on how many continents which factor into this, and here is why it's possible.
 
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#840
#840
lawgator1 said:
That's fine in a given year. Maybe a few. But over ten years straight and a billion dollars?

If you think that's just some creative accounting you are delusional.
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It says a billion over 10 years.
Yes with him in the building industry he could easily depreciate his machinery and even things like ac units etc to where multiple years were negative. It doesn’t say every year is negative. It says over a ten year period.

I bet he had two years go negative one go positive or something like that. He may have even been paying himself through loans.

People don’t understand that when a person is a billionaire it’s not liquid cash billion. It’s the value of their held stock or assets in business. Mostly it’s paper.

They do accumulate quite a bit of cash but the majority of their net worth is tied to the business.
 
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#841
#841
0nelilreb said:
I can’t and don’t pretend to know , I can tell you that the people I know are sick and tired of all of it . I do mean all of it to .
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Now that I can agree with. The idiot Justin basically accused me of watching too much CNN and MSNBC. Hand to God I haven't watched a total of 10 minutes of political commentary on either network since the Bush administration. I don't watch any of it. The only time I tune in to politics on tv is election nights.

I generally watch science and nature, comedy, movies and a few series. I put in twice as much time reading as watching TV.
 
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#842
#842
tennvols77 said:
For those who don't understand how 10 years losses is possible, here is the easiest answer as to why.

Real estate developers must capitalize all of the costs of development of the property (direct costs and indirect costs) If you don't know what these are, go read and learn.

****No deductions are available for tax purposes until the property is either put into service or sold.

So, imagine the time to build or rehab a high rise, the above direct and indirect costs, and add in multiple jobs at one time, and on how many continents which factor into this, and here is why it's possible.
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Actually, you are giving reasons why his tax expenses/tax loss would be smaller in the earlier years as compared to cash expenses. Here is an example. Let's say in 1990, DJT purchased a building for $80MM cash and in 1990 and 1991, he had $10MM of capitalized development cost per year. On January 1, 1992, the building was placed in service. Let's assume for simplicity's sake that the building is depreciated over 40 years straight line. The total depreciable cost is now $100MM ($80MM plus $20MM)

Tax Expenses
1990 - He would have 0 deductions for this building (His return would show 0 income or loss although he is out $90MM)
1991 - He would have 0 deductions for this building (His return would show 0 income or loss although is out an additional $10MM or $100MM total)
1992 - He would have $2.5MM depreciation expense ($100MM/40)
1993 -2031 He would have $2.5MM depreciation expense

Cash Expenses
1990 - $10MM of development costs plus cost of building (if he didn't finance)
1991 - $10MM of development costs
 
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#843
#843
BigOrangeMojo said:
Actually,
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It's not just the capitalized expenses of the purchase of the building/site. Direct (interest on loans, taxes, construction expenses) and also indirect (ongoing costs of running the business i.e. administration/ management) are included.

Buildings currently being “worked” on: 13---- 1- 10 years to finish

2—10 years to finish

3—7 years to finish

4- 9 years to finish

5—6 years

6—5 years

7—10 years

8—9 years

9—3 years

10—7 years

11—8 years

12--- 4 years

13---7 years

The carry over from start to finish will easily allow for a decade of write offs because……… No deductions are available for tax purposes until the property is either put into service or sold. Add on any new projects picked up each year on top of.

So, after building 9 is finished, he may now start to write off all direct and indirect costs associated with the time lag of job.

#12, next year. Then #6, and on and on.
 
#844
#844
tennvols77 said:
It's not just the capitalized expenses of the purchase of the building/site. Direct (interest on loans, taxes, construction expenses) and also indirect (ongoing costs of running the business i.e. administration/ management) are included.

Buildings currently being “worked” on: 13---- 1- 10 years to finish

2—10 years to finish

3—7 years to finish

4- 9 years to finish

5—6 years

6—5 years

7—10 years

8—9 years

9—3 years

10—7 years

11—8 years

12--- 4 years

13---7 years

The carry over from start to finish will easily allow for a decade of write offs because……… No deductions are available for tax purposes until the property is either put into service or sold. Add on any new projects picked up each year on top of.

So, after building 9 is finished, he may now start to write off all direct and indirect costs associated with the time lag of job.

#12, next year. Then #6, and on and on.
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In my example earlier, the $20MM I was referring to were those direct and indirect costs that got capitalized.

On a much smaller scale, I have owned several pieces of real estate. Usually, my first year is the worst from a taxable income perspective. By year 2, the rents that I am receiving is enough to cover my cash expenses plus whatever my depreciation is. If I buy 1 property in 2015 and another in 2016, I'll probably have limited taxable income in both years. However, if I already have 50 properties in 2015 and I buy another similar property in 2016, that 2016 property would not materially change my 2016 tax posture. By the mid 90s, DJT was operating on this scale.

If I were betting, I bet a significant driver of the tax losses for DJT was from interest expenses being so levered up during that time frame.

EDIT - Even if you are showing a tax loss due to interest expense and depreciation, you can still be cash flow positive.
 
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#846
#846
BigOrangeMojo said:
In my example earlier, the $20MM I was referring to were those direct and indirect costs that got capitalized.

On a much smaller scale, I have owned several pieces of real estate. Usually, my first year is the worst from a taxable income perspective. By year 2, the rents that I am receiving is enough to cover my cash expenses plus whatever my depreciation is. If I buy 1 property in 2015 and another in 2016, I'll probably have limited taxable income in both years. However, if I already have 50 properties in 2015 and I buy another similar property in 2016, that 2016 property would not materially change my 2016 tax posture. By the mid 90s, DJT was operating on this scale.

If I were betting, I bet a significant driver of the tax losses for DJT was from interest expenses being so levered up during that time frame.

EDIT - Even if you are showing a tax loss due to interest expense and depreciation, you can still be cash flow positive.
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We are so far outside the scope of what matters at this point it’s not even funny.

Media has another red herring.

I mean think about this....we are debating tax depreciation buildings on a politics forum.

Why????
 
#847
#847
theFallGuy said:
I think the majority of people don't care at this point. The only person I hear constantly talking about it is LG.
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I'm anti-Trump but to the extent theres nothing illegal in there, I'm fine with them not being released although his audit excuse is BS. I'm personally curious about what's in there but unlike people such as Elizabeth Warren and AOC, I can comprehend what it means.
 
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#848
#848
NEOCON said:
We are so far outside the scope of what matters at this point it’s not even funny.

Media has another red herring.

I mean think about this....we are debating tax depreciation buildings on a politics forum.

Why????
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We are in a thread about Trump's taxes and we are discussing respectfully from opposing viewpoints the item that may be causing the losses on Trump's tax returns.
 
#849
#849
BigOrangeMojo said:
In my example earlier, the $20MM I was referring to were those direct and indirect costs that got capitalized.

On a much smaller scale, I have owned several pieces of real estate. Usually, my first year is the worst from a taxable income perspective. By year 2, the rents that I am receiving is enough to cover my cash expenses plus whatever my depreciation is. If I buy 1 property in 2015 and another in 2016, I'll probably have limited taxable income in both years. However, if I already have 50 properties in 2015 and I buy another similar property in 2016, that 2016 property would not materially change my 2016 tax posture. By the mid 90s, DJT was operating on this scale.

If I were betting, I bet a significant driver of the tax losses for DJT was from interest expenses being so levered up during that time frame.

EDIT - Even if you are showing a tax loss due to interest expense and depreciation, you can still be cash flow positive.
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I don’t believe this is the case for Trump. He was most likely operating with large NOL carryovers from selling properties at a loss in prior years. Depreciation and interest expense helps, but not where I would go.

What cracks me up about this whole thing is no one ever says anything about the real estate taxes he is most likely paying for the real estate owned. I would almost bet it is over 50 million a year.
 
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