"What have you done for..."

#26
#26
HE is a PROFESSIONAL football player now, in the entertainment industry, paid millions of dollars to do what he does, and he will rightly be fired if he does not do his job well (but the type human being he is will remain more important).

A COLLEGE football coach SHOULD, at least, have many more responsibilties than just being successful on the field on Saturdays (note that I never said winning wasn't important AT ALL, simply that saying it was the ONLY important thing was immoral), such as teaching and mentoring young men toward maturity and REAL adulthood (18 year olds are adults only in the legal sense), so that the those who do not go on to professional FB careers (the vast majority) will be contributing members of society rather than spoiled, "the world owes me" types.

billbattle said:
I suppose Mr. Haynesworth gets paid a fortune to be a nice guy on the field, versus contributing to winning games. Winning is his frigging job.
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#27
#27
Dobervol said:
Dead, undertaker? I'm a HUGE fan of Patton, btw, deliciously insane though he was, simply b/c the allies might not have won the war on the western european front w/o him kicking butt and taking names. That said: Are you seriously equating defeating Adoph Hitler and stopping the takeover of the free world by a murderous fascist with winning football games? Really? You wanna stick with that analogy?

Hmmmm, lemme see: 6 million murdered jews versus several hundred thousand whining football fans. Yeah, I see the comparison--NOT!
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My friend, that is about the most elementary and uneducated build up of a straw man that I have every seen! Did my post say anything about Hitler, Jews, or defeating allies in WWII. If you go back and look at the post about Patton, I didnt make that initial post. What I was doing was agreeing with the post that was made by Godfatha. That was in reference to a quote by Patton. The quote refers to leadership capabilities and and the will to win. My goodness, where do you people come from?
 
#28
#28
So by your logic, every football coach with a losing record and hearing it from the fans while nonetheless working 100 hour weeks is lazy and collecting welfare?

A agree to the extent that a good person is a good person is a good person (Patton wasn't really a "good person," IMO, but he sure was a useful tool to accomplish an overriding objective), AND that being a good person would entail being a hard worker, unless prevented by some mental or physical disability ("If a man would not work, neither shall he eat").

And it's manifestly silly, unrealistic, and too like a Tony Robbins motivational speech to suggest that if you wanna be a winner, all you have to do is "refuse to lose." Sometimes in the real world, you work hard, bust your butt, and still fail. No, Virginia, there's not a Santa Claus, and you can't always succeed just by trying, once you factor in the many things in this world beyond our control. To paraphrase a very philosophical bumper sticker, "Feces occurs" sometimes despite our best efforts.

Again, I believe we should all always try our best to be "winners" in any endeavor, but there aren't any guarantees. As I said in my very first post in this thread, I actually supported the coaching change, but but even so, I refuse to join the "attack dog" mentality (despite my Dobermans :)) and call CPF a "loser" simply because his ouster became necessary.

Godfatha said:
A winner is a winner is a winner, whether it is militarily, financially, or athletically. Someone who does not accept losing is going to succeed. Someone who accepts losing is a failure and probably is sitting at home collecting their welfare check.
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#29
#29
I like what Spurrier said:

"He's probably 16, 17 years there, probably long enough. It wasn't working very well, so I think everybody understands when it starts going bad, they've gotta make changes," Spurrier told The State.

"But congratulate him on hitting that lottery ticket. That's a big ticket he got," Spurrier said, adding, "I don't know whether to feel sorry for coach or congratulate him for the biggest buyout in the history of college football. He got the best deal ever, I think."
 
#30
#30
It's harsh to call Fulmer a loser, and it is not my intention to do so. But I do think he lost that fire that he had in the 90s. Maybe it was because his arch-nemesis, Spurrier, went somewhere else, or that he just got complacent, but you can't deny he lost it somewhere there. You listen to a guy like Saban, the a-hole that he is, and he is pointing out areas that they need to improve, even in big wins. Contrast that to something that turned my stomach last year when we just barely beat South Carolina and we were acting like we won the NC.

I felt really bad for Fulmer yesterday. It's obvious he loves the University and has given his life to it. But it's also painfully obvious that he doesn't have what it takes any more to be at the top of the conference. Tennessee can't afford to become a perennial cellar dweller...that hole is very hard to dig out of... and that is where we were heading.
 
#31
#31
Dobervol said:
HE is a PROFESSIONAL football player now, in the entertainment industry, paid millions of dollars to do what he does, and he will rightly be fired if he does not do his job well (but the type human being he is will remain more important).

A COLLEGE football coach SHOULD, at least, have many more responsibilties than just being successful on the field on Saturdays (note that I never said winning wasn't important AT ALL, simply that saying it was the ONLY important thing was immoral), such as teaching and mentoring young men toward maturity and REAL adulthood (18 year olds are adults only in the legal sense), so that the those who do not go on to professional FB careers (the vast majority) will be contributing members of society rather than spoiled, "the world owes me" types.
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Fulmer's salary for nuturing and mentoring young men: $30,000

Fulmer's salary for winning football games: $2,470,000
 
#32
#32
Noones calling CPF a loser. My original point in all this was the "attack dogs" who are so offended by this move and throw this new catch phrase "what have you done for me lately" BS in everyones face are living in a fantasy land.

1. If your feelings are hurt because a change is needed and fans no longer want mediocracy, then the SEC is not for you anymore.

2. If you are "ok" with the lack of discipline and laughing on a losing sideline, then the SEC is not for you anymore.

3. If losing records to ranked SEC opponents(consistantly) is ok with you, then the SEC is not for you anymore.

Not to preach (god I hope Im not coming off like that), but this is not your Daddys SEC, and neither are the ticket prices...;)
 
#33
#33
billbattle said:
Fulmer's salary for nuturing and mentoring young men: $30,000

Fulmer's salary for winning football games: $2,470,000
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qft. That's about what a teacher or a youth pastor makes. The $30,000...not the $2.5 mill. :)
 
#34
#34
Wow, do "you people," as you so kindly called me, not ever have anything you say challenged on this forum?

My point is that no quote by Patton is relevant here. Your "claiming it" by agreement makes the rest of my argument pertinent w/o any "strawman" necessary. Yes, I know you agreed with a Patton quote posted by someone else. You quoted it; you agreed w/it, as indicated by the little ever so cool rock on dude Beavis smileys under your quote. Please don't try to back away from it now.

Patton would have been horrible in life at anything other than making war, and I think even he knew it ("God help me, I do love it [war] so!"). My point is that it is a reach to extrapolate anything he said to football. Again, the man was mentally ill, and would have likely stood over Rachel Ray in her kitchen (should he have ever found himself there) with a whip screaming at her to cook better, trying to analogize her latest linguine attempt with an ancient battle between the Carthagenians and the Romans, which of course he had participated in (as he was reincarnated, doncha know).

And I haven't called you "my friend" in condescending fashion; please do me the same courtesy. I have simply disagreed with an opinion you expressed. I am not naive enough to believe that the world will be changed by the outcome of our internet discussion, even if someone could be declared "the winner."

undertakervol said:
My friend, that is about the most elementary and uneducated build up of a straw man that I have every seen! Did my post say anything about Hitler, Jews, or defeating allies in WWII. If you go back and look at the post about Patton, I didnt make that initial post. What I was doing was agreeing with the post that was made by Godfatha. That was in reference to a quote by Patton. The quote refers to leadership capabilities and and the will to win. My goodness, where do you people come from?
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#36
#36
Dobervol said:
Wow, do "you people," as you so kindly called me, not ever have anything you say challenged on this forum?

My point is that no quote by Patton is relevant here. Your "claiming it" by agreement makes the rest of my argument pertinent w/o any "strawman" necessary. Yes, I know you agreed with a Patton quote posted by someone else. You quoted it; you agreed w/it, as indicated by the little ever so cool rock on dude Beavis smileys under your quote. Please don't try to back away from it now.

Patton would have been horrible in life at anything other than making war, and I think even he knew it ("God help me, I do love it [war] so!"). My point is that it is a reach to extrapolate anything he said to football. Again, the man was mentally ill, and would have likely stood over Rachel Ray in her kitchen (should he have ever found himself there) with a whip screaming at her to cook better, trying to analogize her latest linguine attempt with an ancient battle between the Carthagenians and the Romans, which of course he had participated in (as he was reincarnated, doncha know).

And I haven't called you "my friend" in condescending fashion; please do me the same courtesy. I have simply disagreed with an opinion you expressed. I am not naive enough to believe that the world will be changed by the outcome of our internet discussion, even if someone could be declared "the winner."
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Go pat yourself on the back. You are the winner!
 
#37
#37
Good post. Thanks for clarifying.

BNAVOL said:
Noones calling CPF a loser. My original point in all this was the "attack dogs" who are so offended by this move and throw this new catch phrase "what have you done for me lately" BS in everyones face are living in a fantasy land.

I hope no one is living in a fantasy land about the current reality of college football, which IS in fact a world of "win, win big, win quick or get out." Just because it IS that way doesn't mean it SHOULD be that way, however.

1. If your feelings are hurt because a change is needed and fans no longer want mediocracy, then the SEC is not for you anymore.

It's not just the SEC; it's all "big time" college FB. It WAS necessary; MY feelings aren't hurt, but I do still have room in my heart to feel some sadness at the passing of a legend who gave about 30 years of his life to a university he dearly loved. And no, the seventh best SEC salary he was paid this year wouldn't come close to fair compensation, hypothetically, for the crap an SEC coach has to put up with, neglecting his family, working 100 hour weeks, etc. Who ever has time to enjoy the $$?

2. If you are "ok" with the lack of discipline and laughing on a losing sideline, then the SEC is not for you anymore.

I am not "ok" with these things; they are two reasons I supported a change. Unfortunately, PF lost this team, and perhaps if they had played a little harder for him, they would not be complaining about his resignation.

3. If losing records to ranked SEC opponents(consistantly) is ok with you, then the SEC is not for you anymore.

Again, I agree with you; it is NOT "ok" with me, BUT it isn't the ONLY consideration here in hiring a new coach, and some folks don't care about anything else as long as the new coach can beat ranked SEC opponents.

Not to preach (god I hope Im not coming off like that), but this is not your Daddys SEC, and neither are the ticket prices...;)

I agree with you again. Much of the venom coming from the fans is driven by a "keeping up with the Joneses" attitude from most every big time athletic department. It's shameful the amount of $$ Peyton had to cough up for the new locker room, which looks like a palace, but which I assume we had to have to look like other new locker rooms. As fans are told again and again they have to pay more $$ to win, two things occur: they pay, but in bitterness; when a coach loses, the fan base is enraged b/c of how much the price went up, and how they were told we HAD to have the extra $$ to "compete successfully in today's athletic climate," i.e., to win more.

Except for the racism part, my "daddy's SEC" was in many ways more pure, more about love of the game, more interesting and simply more fun. I have two degrees from UT, and will always be a fan, but I just can't muster the same amount of passion for college FB as I used to.
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#38
#38
Touche. I celebrated my big "win" with a single Starburst fruit chew. Unfortunately, it was pineapple, and I'm not too fond of that flavor. The next time I'm permitted to declare myself a winner, I think I'll have myself an ounce of room temp. tap water. I like to dream big. :)

undertakervol said:
Go pat yourself on the back. You are the winner!
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