What Buck Fitzgerald said

#451
#451
chavisut said:
5 is always equal to 5 imho

GBO
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I tend to analyze specifics, circumstances, details, and pretty much any other factor when looking at a situation, including watching what happens on the field and court.
Sounds like if we win 10 by forfeit, you'd be happy because it means 10 wins. After all, 10 always equals 10, right?
 
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#453
#453
Spartacavolus said:
I tend to analyze specifics, circumstances, details, and pretty much any other factor when looking at a situation, including watching what happens on the field and court.
Sounds like if we win 10 by forfeit, you'd be happy because it means 10 wins. After all, 10 always equals 10, right?
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Forfeits before or after the fact?

Mass number of games being forfeited in our favor will never happen. An on the field loss is a loss.
If we're sitting 11-1 with a chance at a title game than sure the score of the game matters. However, when you're looking at a 7-5 type team, they dont.
 
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#456
#456
tvolsfan said:
Last year we won 5. The talent was good enough to easily win 6.

7-5 would be underachieving this year.
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If hunter stays healthy, we win 8 games last year. Losing Hunter was the worst possible injury that could have happened to the team last year. Losing Bray was just icing on the cake for that season.
 
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#459
#459
chavisut said:
Forfeits before or after the fact?

Mass number of games being forfeited in our favor will never happen. An on the field loss is a loss.
If we're sitting 11-1 with a chance at a title game than sure the score of the game matters. However, when you're looking at a 7-5 type team, they dont.
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just making the counterpoint that "5=5" or 10=10 isn't how you should analyze a team.

People should judge off of what happens on and off the field this coming year. Not off of 6, 7 or 8. If one can only judge the state of the football program off of the number of w's, one needs to learn more about the game. There are too many factors, including injuries and schedule. If UT has Ole Miss and Miss st instead of LSU and Bama, DD probably has a winning record. Does that mean the product is any better? Nope.
UT got to the SEC championship a few years ago, but most that know the game knew we had backed into it and the product on the field was deteriorating.
 
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#461
#461
Spartacavolus said:
just making the counterpoint that "5=5" or 10=10 isn't how you should analyze a team.

People should judge off of what happens on and off the field this coming year. Not off of 6, 7 or 8. If one can only judge the state of the football program off of the number of w's, one needs to learn more about the game. There are too many factors, including injuries and schedule. If UT has Ole Miss and Miss st instead of LSU and Bama, DD probably has a winning record. Does that mean the product is any better? Nope.
UT got to the SEC championship a few years ago, but most that know the game knew we had backed into it and the product on the field was deteriorating.
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Excellent analysis Sir............but, the negavols will ignore your post!
 
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#462
#462
Spartacavolus said:
just making the counterpoint that "5=5" or 10=10 isn't how you should analyze a team.

People should judge off of what happens on and off the field this coming year. Not off of 6, 7 or 8. If one can only judge the state of the football program off of the number of w's, one needs to learn more about the game. There are too many factors, including injuries and schedule. If UT has Ole Miss and Miss st instead of LSU and Bama, DD probably has a winning record. Does that mean the product is any better? Nope.
UT got to the SEC championship a few years ago, but most that know the game knew we had backed into it and the product on the field was deteriorating.
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I'll judge the team off wins and continue to know nothing about football.
 
#463
#463
chavisut said:
I'll judge the team off wins and continue to know nothing about football.
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When you have difficulty with reasoning, it's best to stick with something basic that you can follow. Counting w's regardless of any other factors is probably best for you.

Hell, maybe TN will switch to the OVC and win 10 each year. Then you can be happy with your counting abilities. 10 is 10, right.
 
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#464
#464
Spartacavolus said:
just making the counterpoint that "5=5" or 10=10 isn't how you should analyze a team.

People should judge off of what happens on and off the field this coming year. Not off of 6, 7 or 8. If one can only judge the state of the football program off of the number of w's, one needs to learn more about the game. There are too many factors, including injuries and schedule. If UT has Ole Miss and Miss st instead of LSU and Bama, DD probably has a winning record. Does that mean the product is any better? Nope.
UT got to the SEC championship a few years ago, but most that know the game knew we had backed into it and the product on the field was deteriorating.
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I don't believe so.
 
#467
#467
Spartacavolus said:
It was a hypothetical to prove a point about counting W's vs watching the games. Neither you nor I know what would have happened.
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My point is that I don't believe you can make that statement in good faith after the UK loss.

But I see your point.
 
#469
#469
Spartacavolus said:
your standards confuse me. CM had some bad losses and left several W's on the table, but you didn't say a negative word.
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I am always more willing to forgive year one. You heard very few complaints from me for Dooley in year one. If CCM is having the same issues in year two, I will complain. Also, I did complain about CCM at the beginning of the year and said Austin Peay was inexcusable. I also saw marked improvement after that game and am willing to give a coach more than 10% of his first season to prove himself. That would be like me judging Dooley after the fourth game of 2010.

Basketball is also different. Bad losses will happen. Just part of the game. Having two or three won't kill you. Football is completely different.

In the UGA, we had the biggest game of the Dooley era, had three weeks to adjust to life without Hunter, and had a primetime game at home. The team came out flat and dead.

USClite just lost Garcia and Lattimore. Now, we had Worley, so I'm more willing to forgive. But that was still a game UT had a chance to win and could not pull through.
 
#470
#470
zjcvols said:
I am always more willing to forgive year one. You heard very few complaints from me for Dooley in year one. If CCM is having the same issues in year two, I will complain. Also, I did complain about CCM at the beginning of the year and said Austin Peay was inexcusable. I also saw marked improvement after that game and am willing to give a coach more than 10% of his first season to prove himself. That would be like me judging Dooley after the fourth game of 2010.

Basketball is also different. Bad losses will happen. Just part of the game. Having two or three won't kill you. Football is completely different.

In the UGA, we had the biggest game of the Dooley era, had three weeks to adjust to life without Hunter, and had a primetime game at home. The team came out flat and dead.



USClite just lost Garcia and Lattimore. Now, we had Worley, so I'm more willing to forgive. But that was still a game UT had a chance to win and could not pull through.
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Fair analysis.
 
#471
#471
Spartacavolus said:
When you have difficulty with reasoning, it's best to stick with something basic that you can follow. Counting w's regardless of any other factors is probably best for you.

Hell, maybe TN will switch to the OVC and win 10 each year. Then you can be happy with your counting abilities. 10 is 10, right.
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You're taking my point way to far. Okay though, I dumb, u smart.
 
#472
#472
zjcvols said:
I am always more willing to forgive year one. You heard very few complaints from me for Dooley in year one. If CCM is having the same issues in year two, I will complain. Also, I did complain about CCM at the beginning of the year and said Austin Peay was inexcusable. I also saw marked improvement after that game and am willing to give a coach more than 10% of his first season to prove himself. That would be like me judging Dooley after the fourth game of 2010.

Basketball is also different. Bad losses will happen. Just part of the game. Having two or three won't kill you. Football is completely different.

In the UGA, we had the biggest game of the Dooley era, had three weeks to adjust to life without Hunter, and had a primetime game at home. The team came out flat and dead.

USClite just lost Garcia and Lattimore. Now, we had Worley, so I'm more willing to forgive. But that was still a game UT had a chance to win and could not pull through.
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I think all the rumors and innuendo about Bray's lack of maturity and the defense not having enough Senior leadership, aside from Malik, last year seem to indicate that this team just wasn't mentally tough last year.

I'm not going to make excuses for DD but I think the UGA & SC games indicated just how fragile this team's mental toughness was--is that on DD? Yes, but not entirely. A lot has been said about DD's ability (or inability) to motivate the players--which is a fair criticism--but there eventually comes a point where the players make up their mind and get tough.

Like you said, those were games we could have pulled through--which I agree with--but only if we were more mentally tough.
 
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#474
#474
orangeblood79 said:
I think all the rumors and innuendo about Bray's lack of maturity and the defense not having enough Senior leadership, aside from Malik, last year seem to indicate that this team just wasn't mentally tough last year.

I'm not going to make excuses for DD but I think the UGA & SC games indicated just how fragile this team's mental toughness was--is that on DD? Yes, but not entirely. A lot has been said about DD's ability (or inability) to motivate the players--which is a fair criticism--but there eventually comes a point where the players make up their mind and get tough.

Like you said, those were games we could have pulled through--which I agree with--but only if we were more mentally tough.
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I don't know if they are mentally tough or not. Because I can point to 2010, when they were 2-6 and had their hearts ripped out against LSU, and won four straight, and 3/4 games weren't exactly easy games, at least for that team.

I think it's fairly obvious, that, for whatever reason, the team quit. Hell, it was even before UK. They quit against Arkansas too. I try not to get embarrassed watching my favorite teams play, because, you know, I'm not on the team, but I felt semi-embarrassed watching them against Arky.

And here's another question. They all are back...so why should I think they become mentally tough now? I don't think it's that simple in terms of whether they are mentally tough or not.
 
#475
#475
Spartacavolus said:
Just trying to help those who are too tunnelvisioned to see the whole picture. If you don't want to watch the games to determine your opinion of UT in 2012, its certainly your choice.
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Last year close losses might have meant something to me and certainly the year before. This year, win or pls go.
 
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