What are your expectations now?

[mlindsay]

Holly, unfortunately, is determined to drive her fan base bonkers (not a long drive, I know ... that is a slam at myself as much as anyone) with her illogical and comical substitution patterns. It's unexplainable. If she can't figure out her best and most reliable seven or eight players in practice, she has no reason being the person with Pat's whistle.

I guess the coach thought she had the game secured when she experimented with a mainly guard lineup most of the third quarter. We all saw the results = epic Lady Mocs comeback.

Please get a clue (may be too late with this set-in-her-ways, game-has-past-you-by, stubborn HC), Holly, or be ready for the fan base to turn altogether and demand a new direction. I know I'm already looking forward to the return of the anointed son, Tyler!

Diamond will be fine, folks. She's special. Russell can accomplish great things and proved her capabilities with that steal and three-quarter-court dribble drive to the basket (beautiful!) last night. So impressive. I can't wait for Nared's return but have major reservations Holly will know how to properly utilize her talents.

Kudos to Meme's athletic ability. I still contend Jordan deserves no more than a mop-up role. Moore is a wasted scholarship and Jones still can't play under control (and her coaches have no clue how to guide her).

Yes, for the blindly loyal Holly fanatics (less of you around last night after the game), a win is a win, but tonight's collapse was a sin, period!

Diamond, take over this team and please give Holly no way to screw it up. You can push this team to the brink of greatness despite the lame HCing rotation decisions.

After watching Moore for 4 years I agree it was a wasted scholarship and its even more upsetting that we didn't land a Post this class yet let a few get away that wanted to really be lady vols. Moore is only here because Law was recruiting her when she was Head Coach at Illinois but when they fired her Moore was her highest recruit (a 3 star) and Law talked Holly into signing her

 

[Orange Maniac]

Diamond isn't the only one who is like that MeMe and Cooper both hate losing. Graves has that same hunger and so does Russell. I have seen it in Jordan but I think she needs to play more off the ball than on the ball

They may have that trait a little but it's not like it is with Diamond. If the others had it like her, we wouldn't have seen that mess last night.

 

[teacherdean]

Last night was sad, at best. A lot of posters refuse to blame the coaching, instead some of us are having trouble admitting that we have coaching issues, if not on defense, but on offense, we stoop to blaming 18-22 year old players. Just who coaches these players? Who is suppose to have control of the team? Plain and simple, we were a confused mess in the second half. We looked out of control while our HC seemed completely confused. I was a nervous mess during the game, but yes I am glade we won, but there are some wounds we need to fix. In the second half, Foster shut down our inside game and dared us to shoot from outside. Holly did not have an answer. She will see that type of defense until she comes up with an answer. In the second half the Moc's looked like the number 4 team in the nation, while we looked like a drowning man looking for a lifesaver.

 

[mlindsay]

They may have that trait a little but it's not like it is with Diamond. If the others had it like her, we wouldn't have seen that mess last night.

A few of the others didn't get a chance, Cooper was benched essentially (until she had to put her on the floor) and MeMe never saw the floor again after midway through the 3rd and Graves had some critical offensive rebounds (along with Russell) to keep us from losing the lead

 

[Volfan2012]

Holly needs to put the best five players in back them up with the next best three and leave them alone. To much micro-management let them play. They kept trying the Holly game plan resulted in about nine turnovers as they kept trying to force a pass inside. Then late third quarter and early fourth Chattanooga decided they would make us shoot outside as much as they could. The Diamond baseline moves accounted in several baskets that saved the game.

 

[GBOTango]

During Coach Warlick's pregame speech the other night there were two Lady Vols on the front row giggling and talking while the camera's were rolling. Maybe it's nothing, but looked like lack of respect to me. The team looks undisciplined to me. If a coach tells you to play better D, you play better D. If a coach tells you to stop turning the ball over, you stop it. If you don't perform, you should expect to be removed from the game. I don't see the coach holding the players accountable during the game. Stupid plays, passes, or shots at some point should result in bench time. Way to sloppy basketball, and too much talent for it to be that way. Several of the players look pouty to me, like they deserve to be the best without having earned anything yet. Better get some discipline soon Coach Warlick, and find out who really wants to be there. Coaching seems to be a problem right now.

 

[volfanecs]

On a lighter note, I STILL can not believe I played ball against Miss Nared's GRANDFATHER!!!!

 

[madtownvol]

Last night was sad, at best. A lot of posters refuse to blame the coaching, instead some of us are having trouble admitting that we have coaching issues, if not on defense, but on offense, we stoop to blaming 18-22 year old players. Just who coaches these players? Who is suppose to have control of the team? Plain and simple, we were a confused mess in the second half. We looked out of control while our HC seemed completely confused. I was a nervous mess during the game, but yes I am glade we won, but there are some wounds we need to fix. In the second half, Foster shut down our inside game and dared us to shoot from outside. Holly did not have an answer. She will see that type of defense until she comes up with an answer. In the second half the Moc's looked like the number 4 team in the nation, while we looked like a drowning man looking for a lifesaver.

Here is the catch. The "answer" to a collapsed defense is to hit the open shots from outside. When UTC started to make their run in the 3rd quarter, the LVs had several wide open threes and shot bricks. The offense did what it was supposed to do but the execution sucked. If the LVs hit a few of those threes, it builds the leads and forces UTC to come out and guard the perimeter, which then opens the lane for Mercedes, Graves, etc.

Why can't Holly get/make the players to hit their threes? I mean that is tough ask. I have a feeling that players like KD adn Middleton are probably money shooters in practice but can't get it done under the pressure of a game.

The players make some inexplicable mistakes; you have a 6-6 post player so you lob the passed into the post instead of putting them in her waist level. You drop the ball off before charging ahead into the set defender. You don't pass the ball into triple teams.

I can guarantee you that Holly and the gang coach players to not make these mistakes but they are not responding to game pressure. Some of that goes on Holly and some goes on the players.

It seems that Holly is making an investment in Cooper, tolerating some PG mistakes in hopes that she will play like a more experienced player come tournament time.

That looks like a good bet to me but it, if you are tolerating some mistakes in one player, it makes it harder to have a zero tolerance policy for others. But she needs to hold her upper classmen more accountable--particularly Carter and Reynolds.

At this point, I am not sure I would put Moore, KD, or Middleton on the floor except for garbage time. Meme Jackson deserves more investment. Jasmine is coming along and DeShields started to show her stuff.

Given Diamond capacities to handle the ball, I could see this line-up on the floor a lot:

Russell, Graves, DeShields, Cooper, Jones (or Jackson).

Carter would sub for Jackson, Nared (when back) for Jones--I would imagine that Nared might be become a mainstay once she has her game legs back).

This line-up works if Cooper and DeShields and Jackson can hit from outside

 

[Volfan2012]

The gamble teams are taking and I would as well is pack in a zone and make players hit the outside shots. You don't want to play Tennessee in the man to man they would blister most people when that happens.
The best defense is to try to get as many people in the paint as possible and if they try to force it inside to Russell or Graves you will get a few turnovers even if they score a few times. See if the perimeter players can shoot the wide open shot were 14 of 61 from the three so I think it has been a good gamble and helped some teams take Tennessee to the wire.

 

[Volfan2012]

To add if were shooting 33 percent from the three and 40 percent overall from the perimeter none of these games have been that close we win them all comfortably. 6 of 36 against Syracuse and after a quick start about the same last night from the perimeter. To say we've been awful from the perimeter is an understatement.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Here is the catch. The "answer" to a collapsed defense is to hit the open shots from outside. When UTC started to make their run in the 3rd quarter, the LVs had several wide open threes and shot bricks. The offense did what it was supposed to do but the execution sucked. If the LVs hit a few of those threes, it builds the leads and forces UTC to come out and guard the perimeter, which then opens the lane for Mercedes, Graves, etc.

Why can't Holly get/make the players to hit their threes? I mean that is tough ask. I have a feeling that players like KD adn Middleton are probably money shooters in practice but can't get it done under the pressure of a game.

The players make some inexplicable mistakes; you have a 6-6 post player so you lob the passed into the post instead of putting them in her waist level. You drop the ball off before charging ahead into the set defender. You don't pass the ball into triple teams.

I can guarantee you that Holly and the gang coach players to not make these mistakes but they are not responding to game pressure. Some of that goes on Holly and some goes on the players.

It seems that Holly is making an investment in Cooper, tolerating some PG mistakes in hopes that she will play like a more experienced player come tournament time.

That looks like a good bet to me but it, if you are tolerating some mistakes in one player, it makes it harder to have a zero tolerance policy for others. But she needs to hold her upper classmen more accountable--particularly Carter and Reynolds.

At this point, I am not sure I would put Moore, KD, or Middleton on the floor except for garbage time. Meme Jackson deserves more investment. Jasmine is coming along and DeShields started to show her stuff.

Given Diamond capacities to handle the ball, I could see this line-up on the floor a lot:

Russell, Graves, DeShields, Cooper, Jones (or Jackson).

Carter would sub for Jackson, Nared (when back) for Jones--I would imagine that Nared might be become a mainstay once she has her game legs back).

This line-up works if Cooper and DeShields and Jackson can hit from outside

I think you just went full circle. Do you have an idea as to why they aren't hitting from outside? Sometimes it looks like they are getting back into the pass-the-ball-scared-to-take-a-shot syndrome from a few years agohmy:. If we would hit (not could hit) a good % of the guard shots everything would be different JMO.

 

[madtownvol]

I think you just went full circle. Do you have an idea as to why they aren't hitting from outside? Sometimes it looks like they are getting back into the pass-the-ball-scared-to-take-a-shot syndrome from a few years agohmy:. If we would hit (not could hit) a good % of the guard shots everything would be different JMO.

I am not sure what the circular implication is. When teams pack the paint defensively, the other side has to draw them out by hitting the open outside that are being given.

The LVs went 3-18 from outside, so they were putting the ball up. And after starting out with a high %, they wound up shooting 39% for the game as a whole. They were missing from closer range as well.

 

[armchair]

Shooting has been a problem with this program for a long time--it's part of UT's ongoing offensive mediocrity, which also includes bad passing and turnovers. That is the Vols bad-offense trifecta. There were three or four years, back before the Parker era, when we were in the final four but easily had the worst shooting percentage of the four teams. And look at our coaches--Law coached at Rutgers with Stringer, maybe the only successful major program that has been consistently worse offensively than us. In fact, UT and Rutgers played one of the worst championship games in the history of the tournament--two defensive teams that treated the fans to an absolute clankfest. (We managed to get to 50 before they did and won it.) Elzy was a defensively player with very limited offensive ability, and I think Warlick was similar. There is that.

Beyond that, we just don't have much confidence individually and collectively shooting the ball. Why, it is hard to say. One reason might be that we stand around quite a bit, and it can be hard to shoot well when you are standing around.There is no team rhythm. In turn, the standing around is partly due to the guards looking to get the ball inside a lot--and perhaps thinking too much about whether they should look inside one more time or take the open shot. If you are clearly open, you should shoot. Problem is, players miss a couple of shots and then get hesitant, and then the confidence issue really rears up. When you start hesitating, unsure whether to shoot, you are done--you may shoot the ball, but you won't make it, not when you're tentative. There is no reason why Carter and Middleton shouldn't be decent outside shooters, as they have nice strokes. That isn't quite the case with Reynolds--though I wouldn't call her a bad shooter, just not good. Cooper is a much more effective player against man than zone; her shooting lately has been bad, though she did have four assists last night.

Maybe we should stop playing so many guards when we are facing a zone and just play a bigger lineup, with DeShields at the 2 spot, which she can play. Maybe more minutes for Jones or Dunbar or Nared when she returns. Jones can play perimeter defense better than any guard we have anyhow, and with her ups get shots off inside a zone. It can't be easy trying to decide which guards to play, and how much, as they are all equally meh.

Our saving grace is DeShelds. As she did last night, she has the size, moves and athleticsm to get a shot pretty much anytime she wants to, and so can bail us out when we are standing around looking baffled....if SHE can make some shots. We just don't play well consistently, which of course is an understatement. We play well for a stretch--and then one can count on us playing horribly for a stretch, and this up and down pattern is the reason why we struggle to win games comfortable despite having a talent advantage. Does coaching have something to do with it? Shhhhh: you didn't hear me say that.

 

[Smallvol#1]

I am not sure what the circular implication is. When teams pack the paint defensively, the other side has to draw them out by hitting the open outside that are being given.

The LVs went 3-18 from outside, so they were putting the ball up. And after starting out with a high %, they wound up shooting 39% for the game as a whole. They were missing from closer range as well.

Sorry, think you misunderstood. I wasn't questioning your post, just that to stop them from packing the paint, the guards must score from outside, and for your preferred line up to be effective (and I agree with the ones you say play) the guards must score from the outside. It seems like going and coming the problem is the same...the guards have to score.

And I was serious as to your ideas about how/what to improve the outside scoring (outside shots we take, outside scoring we don't do so well). You seem: 1) knowledgeable 2) sensible 3) able to make a point without being rude or condescending 4) a true LV fan. So...I really was interested in your opinion.

 

[madtownvol]

Sorry, think you misunderstood. I wasn't questioning your post, just that to stop them from packing the paint, the guards must score from outside, and for your preferred line up to be effective (and I agree with the ones you say play) the guards must score from the outside. It seems like going and coming the problem is the same...the guards have to score.

And I was serious as to your ideas about how/what to improve the outside scoring (outside shots we take, outside scoring we don't do so well). You seem: 1) knowledgeable 2) sensible 3) able to make a point without being rude or condescending 4) a true LV fan. So...I really was interested in your opinion.

Got it. Thanks. DeShields, Cooper and Jackson all have the range to score from outside but I am not sure they are the consistent zone beaters like a Zolman, or a Lawson, or Massengale last year, that the team needs. I know the plan had been that Middleton and Dunbar would provide that dimension but we know how that is going.

 

[Sandvol]

This team dribbles the ball too much. There are no catch and shoot players. There are no crisp passes, no movement to get into position for the quick entry catch and shoot or throw it outside to catch and shoot. It is always catch the ball and "what do I do with it now" mentality, hesitate, dribble, throw it away. Can the coach not recognize this is how they're playing and they're not going to beat anybody with talent unless perhaps DeShields bails them out? That kind of approach won't get them far.

 

[dillyo51]

I am proud of the team. I am not proud of a large percentage of the fans. And no, I will not wear Tennessee gear outside of the area.

You forget (or perhaps didn't know) that I am not a UT grad. It's not as if I am shunning my alma mater. I am a tremendous Lady Vols fan, and I own a lot of Lady Vols gear and some gear that is just germane to Tennessee. I wear it frequently when I am out and about locally. But no, I will not wear the gear outside of East Tennessee/Southwest Virginia. That is my prerogative.

Closet Tennessee fan IMO.

 

[armchair]

This team dribbles the ball too much. There are no catch and shoot players. There are no crisp passes, no movement to get into position for the quick entry catch and shoot or throw it outside to catch and shoot. It is always catch the ball and "what do I do with it now" mentality, hesitate, dribble, throw it away. Can the coach not recognize this is how they're playing and they're not going to beat anybody with talent unless perhaps DeShields bails them out? That kind of approach won't get them far.

And this is why we are a terribly coached team! Watch a good team attack a zone defense--they will dribble very little. It is players moving and quick passes--inside, outside, around the perimeter, getting the defense to move. We stand around! Our guards dribble in one place and look inside, then try to throw it inside and the ball gets picked off because they are telegraphing what they want to do. When Russell or Graves get it, they often hold the ball for 2/3/4 seconds, accomplishing nothing while the defense collapses around them. And, yea, we will rely on DeShields to bail out our bad offense and bad coaching this year--you can bet on that, just as she did against 'Nooga. We are not a well drilled team, and this is partly why we have no rhythm, why the guard play is bad when it should be much better, why we don't shoot well and why we struggle to get to 55 points when UConn is scoring 90 regularly.

 

[dillyo51]

I've always thought Jim Foster was an excellent coach.

 

[madtownvol]

And this is why we are a terribly coached team! Watch a good team attack a zone defense--they will dribble very little. It is players moving and quick passes--inside, outside, around the perimeter, getting the defense to move. We stand around! Our guards dribble in one place and look inside, then try to throw it inside and the ball gets picked off because they are telegraphing what they want to do. When Russell or Graves get it, they often hold the ball for 2/3/4 seconds, accomplishing nothing while the defense collapses around them. And, yea, we will rely on DeShields to bail out our bad offense and bad coaching this year--you can bet on that, just as she did against 'Nooga. We are not a well drilled team, and this is partly why we have no rhythm, why the guard play is bad when it should be much better, why we don't shoot well and why we struggle to get to 55 points when UConn is scoring 90 regularly.

There are stretches where your description is spot-on. There are times when this team actually moves the ball very well. So, they can run a good halfcourt offense but not as consistently as they need to be. On that issue, this year, we are working with a PG who now has 3 games under her belt. The team would look better in the short term (I think) with Carter at PG but in the longer term, I can understand tolerating Cooper's growing pains in the early season.

The LVs are not the first team who are better in transition than running the half court set. They have the classic profile for that kind of team--a team of excellent athletes, good depth, and weakness in the three point shooting sphere. If you can't score from outside on teams who are packing the paint with a zone, it is very hard to make the offense look fluid.

Given the team mix of strengths and weaknesses, they need to work on becoming a high press team. Against UT-C, Ariel in her commentary mentioned several times that the LVs lost control of the game once they backed off the pressure defense. Holly dialing down the defensive pressure is the one coaching move in that game which is hard to understand. I would not mind see the LVs turn Cooper, Graves, and Jackson or Jones loose on full court presses, with Russell and Graves providing the paint support.

 

[GameTime]

There are stretches where your description is spot-on. There are times when this team actually moves the ball very well. So, they can run a good halfcourt offense but not as consistently as they need to be. On that issue, this year, we are working with a PG who now has 3 games under her belt. The team would look better in the short term (I think) with Carter at PG but in the longer term, I can understand tolerating Cooper's growing pains in the early season.

The LVs are not the first team who are better in transition than running the half court set. They have the classic profile for that kind of team--a team of excellent athletes, good depth, and weakness in the three point shooting sphere. If you can't score from outside on teams who are packing the paint with a zone, it is very hard to make the offense look fluid.

Given the team mix of strengths and weaknesses, they need to work on becoming a high press team. Against UT-C, Ariel in her commentary mentioned several times that the LVs lost control of the game once they backed off the pressure defense. Holly dialing down the defensive pressure is the one coaching move in that game which is hard to understand. I would not mind see the LVs turn Cooper, Graves, and Jackson or Jones loose on full court presses, with Russell and Graves providing the paint support.

Good post.....I agree full court press with our speedy players to upset the flow....Team looked fairly decent on offense as long as they were moving....If shots had fallen in second half, different game.

 

[Decker Moss]

IMHO the team is lacking confidence and "swagger" (though I hate that word). Teams take on the personality of their coach. If you watch the coach's interviews or on the side line she does not exude a lot of confidence. Compare her demeanor to say Muffet or, god forbid, Geno. We may not like one of them but they sure do not lack confidence.

"Act like you know what you are doing, even when you don't. Most people can't tell the difference. "

 

[Volfan2012]

Right now the leaders I see are Graves, Diamond, and Cooper so all three should be in the starting lineup. Cooper needs to play a little bit more under control because she can make a play on every possession if she uses a little more patience.
Jones is lost in space, Reynolds defense should keep her on the bench. She gave up two straight layups and the second was a three point play. Carter either needs to get some confidence or join Reynolds on the bench. Jackson needs a legitimate chance to take their playing time she looked good in limited minutes.
Mercedes needs to be more aggressive and move around the post more.
We need Nared back to see if she can make a difference.
Dunbar, Moore, and Middleton have to do something positive when they are in the game or be destined to the pine for the season.

 

[stubbs9]

Right now the leaders I see are Graves, Diamond, and Cooper so all three should be in the starting lineup. Cooper needs to play a little bit more under control because she can make a play on every possession if she uses a little more patience.
Jones is lost in space, Reynolds defense should keep her on the bench. She gave up two straight layups and the second was a three point play. Carter either needs to get some confidence or join Reynolds on the bench. Jackson needs a legitimate chance to take their playing time she looked good in limited minutes.
Mercedes needs to be more aggressive and move around the post more.
We need Nared back to see if she can make a difference.
Dunbar, Moore, and Middleton have to do something positive when they are in the game or be destined to the pine for the season.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[dapeak]

Russell needs to watch film of Stephanie Dolson there is no reason she should not be as good or better than Dolson besides coaching.

Deshields just needs to continue getting healthy and getting in game shape.

Graves has to keep the confidence and fire she started the season with and demand the ball.

Cooper needs to stay confident her shot will fall but if it isn't she can make plays and play defense.

Jackson just needs minutes. I see great things in her future.

Reynolds is not a point. She's a combo guard with limited offensive skills.

Carter would make a good 2 guard as long as she is willing to take the shot.

Middleton is better than given credit. I like her.

Dunbar needs to get healthy and realize we need her to shoot and open up the floor teams are going to play zone until we can beat it.

Moore has got to slow down. She plays best when she just allows her game to come instead of getting the ball and immediately putting up a shot she has been rushing in her limited minutes.


Jared. Please get healthy this team needs you.

Jones just get healthy


My starting line-up:
Cooper
Jackson
Deshields
Graves
Russell

That starting five will have a different type of swagger they will fight for a win. The court should never be without at least 1 or two of Diamond/Cooper/Russell/Graves.