What are the possible ...

#51
#51
mrbluesky said:
You're quoting me and responding to something someone else said...
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You're correct...my sincere apologies.

However, you're list is nearly as absurd. Some of those are legitimate grievances or concerns on their own, but have to be weighed against the others. Compiled together is when they begin to illustrate a pattern.

Nobody thinks you have to beat UF or UGA every year, or that you should never get snuck up on by a lesser team. But more often than not you have to beat the teams your supposed to, and you need to becone competitive against the others. Sometimes you have to win a game you're not supposed to.
 
#52
#52
'Boro-vol said:
Yep....if you've never coached you absolutely cannot voice an opinion on coaching. Thats why only Presidents can vote for President.
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If only presidents voted for president, we'd be in a far better spot right now -- seeing as how all living US presidents were very clear in who they were and were not voting for.
 
#54
#54
'Boro-vol said:
You're correct...my sincere apologies.

However, you're list is nearly as absurd. Some of those are legitimate grievances or concerns on their own, but have to be weighed against the others. Compiled together is when they begin to illustrate a pattern.

Nobody thinks you have to beat UF or UGA every year, or that you should never get snuck up on by a lesser team. But more often than not you have to beat the teams your supposed to, and you need to becone competitive against the others. Sometimes you have to win a game you're not supposed to.
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Each person calling for his head has their own pet reason why. Some people say for this reason, and others say for that. Those are the reasons I'm reading on there every day. I'm not saying some of those are not legitimate concerns because he has a LOT he can improve on. But if we're going to call for his head, it better be for a very good reason and not some delusional wish list the fans dream up. Because if we hold him to all those standards, we better be able to find a top tier coach who's willing to take on those expectations. And I don't think there are as many coaches lined up out there willing to as some seem to think.
 
#55
#55
Chitlin&theDude said:
Are you serious? I live in Alabama and never heard one who doesn't say the exact same thing- Butch is a decent coach but will NEVER will an SEC championship. In fact all my friends (Ole Miss, AU, AL, GA) say the same thing. 'He's not an SEC Championship coach' Everyone!
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Second that, I live in Alabama. They all consider Tennessee a cupcake and most were hoping they would make it to the SECCG instead of Florida.
 
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#57
#57
mrbluesky said:
What exactly are our expectations of Jones' replacement?

Win MORE than 8-10 games per year. Don't ever lose to teams you ought to beat.
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Never is a long time. But it shouldn't be every year or even every other year.

Don't lose to Florida. Don't lose to Georgia. At least play on par with Alabama.
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Win more than he loses against the top of the SEC. Yes.

Keep academics high. Don't let us get on probation.
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Pretty much a standard expectation in CFB now due to the recruiting costs of not doing it.

Win the SEC East when the fans expect it.
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Nope. Just when capable.... like this year and maybe last year.

Participate in a top tier bowl every year.
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Not entirely unreasonable.

Don't let too many players get injured as that reflects on poor S&C.
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Not really. Don't have high numbers of injuries every year without holding the S&C staff accountable.

Deal with delusional fans who boo you when you attempt a field goal near halftime.
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No. Just show respect for the people who make it possible for you to make over $4 million per year to coach a game.

Fill the seats.
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Do the rest. This takes care of itself.

Look enthusiastic. Don't say anything that could be misinterpreted.
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Don't care. Just win and no one will care.

Keep all the players happy.
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Not possible. Just don't have the highest attrition in the SEC on a running basis. Either do a better job recruiting or else do a better job of keeping players in the program.

And make that all happen now because if you don't, you will be fired.
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Welcome to the real world. If a company paid a guy $4.6 million per year, resourced him, set achievable goals, and gave him time to work up to the goals... They'd be fired if they failed to meet those goals.

What coach in their right mind would come to a no-win situation like that? If Jones were to be offered by a top tier school, I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
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That is pretty much the situation at every top tier program and coaches know it.
 
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#58
#58
sjt18 said:
Welcome to the real world. If a company paid a guy $4.6 million per year, resourced him, set achievable goals, and gave him time to work up to the goals... They'd be fired if they failed to meet those goals.

That is pretty much the situation at every top tier program and coaches know it.
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Except EVERY one of those guys the fans here were clamoring for instead of Butch - Strong, Kelly, etc didnt get it done and are about to be fired. Butch? improved but not there yet.
 
#59
#59
Gandalf said:
Except EVERY one of those guys the fans here were clamoring for instead of Butch - Strong, Kelly, etc didnt get it done and are about to be fired. Butch? improved but not there yet.
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What is the point you are trying to make?

Simply put. UT probably has MORE patience as a whole than most programs with their history, budget, and prestige. It isn't a secret that pressure and expectations are high at big time programs. Jones has even paid lip service to that fact.

So it really doesn't matter who stepped into a job they couldn't handle somewhere else. What matters is if your program is more important than playing nice with a coach that does not appear to be championship caliber.
 
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#61
#61
sjt18 said:
BTW, the pressure to win at Texas and ND is higher than at UT.
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I would like to know why when Texas and ND (and others) replace coaches every couple years, it is a sign they're trying to improve. but when Tennessee does it, its a sign of turmoil and there's a coaching carousel.
 
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#62
#62
sjt18 said:
What is the point you are trying to make?

Simply put. UT probably has MORE patience as a whole than most programs with their history, budget, and prestige. It isn't a secret that pressure and expectations are high at big time programs. Jones has even paid lip service to that fact.

So it really doesn't matter who stepped into a job they couldn't handle somewhere else. What matters is if your program is more important than playing nice with a coach that does not appear to be championship caliber.
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My point is that its not easy to get it done - and by that I mean no matter how dazzling a prospect the coach is, very few are going to be able to get a team to a consistent 9-10 win season in the SEC (because other coaches that were supposed to be equally talented have to lose). If they are not already in the SEC, they are one of the top 1-2 coaches of their conference. Of those who can do that, only maybe 3 could say they could probably make a team a top 10 contender every year.

Since CBJ has proven he can get us to the 9 win seasons, I am willing to see if he can get us to the next level. Fact is, any time you change from someone proven to get 9-10 wins a season to a supposed homerun hire, you risk a result like our last decade - because such people are VERY VERY VERY hard to find - and when you do - you have to pay them an obscene amount.
 
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#63
#63
Its threads like these that make me wish Butch would just leave. Then we can go back to the cellar of the East, you know back when winning 6 games was all we could hope for. Then hear the same people b*** that we shoudlnt have gotten rid of Butch.
 
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#64
#64
solivols said:
Mason has Vandy improving each season from his first until now, that doesn't necessarily correlate with being good.
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Yeah, they lost eight games last year and only lose seven this year. They must be using the concrete block by concrete block philosophy

.
 
#65
#65
87&91ALUM said:
Bama fans would love to see Butch leave. I've had several tell me they fear Butch in coming years will have UT in position to challenge them every year like Fulmer. They believe injuries spared them a loss to us this year. Sounds about right.
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And you believe them? They said the same thing about Dooley IIRC.
 
#66
#66
jamesthesame said:
I have seen posts like this a lot. Why? Is there a rumor Butch may be looking to leave?
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Would you want to stay at UT the way many in the Knoxville media and many in the fan base have treated him?

I sure wouldn't!

I hope he stays and proves these jerks wrong, but I certainly don't blame him for a minute if he leaves.
 
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#67
#67
gunner said:
Would you want to stay at UT the way many in the Knoxville media and many in the fan base have treated him?

I sure wouldn't!

I hope he stays and proves these jerks wrong, but I certainly don't blame him for a minute if he leaves.
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This is where I am as well.
 
#68
#68
gunner said:
Would you want to stay at UT the way many in the Knoxville media and many in the fan base have treated him?

I sure wouldn't!

I hope he stays and proves these jerks wrong, but I certainly don't blame him for a minute if he leaves.
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Butch has talked down to the media since he got to Knoxville. Why should he expect grace in return?
 
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#69
#69
mrbluesky said:
What exactly are our expectations of Jones' replacement?

Win MORE than 8-10 games per year. Don't ever lose to teams you ought to beat. Don't lose to Florida. Don't lose to Georgia. At least play on par with Alabama. Keep academics high. Don't let us get on probation. Win the SEC East when the fans expect it. Participate in a top tier bowl every year. Don't let too many players get injured as that reflects on poor S&C. Deal with delusional fans who boo you when you attempt a field goal near halftime. Fill the seats. Look enthusiastic. Don't say anything that could be misinterpreted. Keep all the players happy. And make that all happen now because if you don't, you will be fired.

What coach in their right mind would come to a no-win situation like that? If Jones were to be offered by a top tier school, I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
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In your attempt to be sarcastic, you actually described what about half of the programs in the FBS are looking for in a HC.
 
#70
#70
Have to say I'm fed up with the majority of our fan base. And whoever this strider idiot that calls in to Swain Event and use to be on Hookers show is the biggest idiot of them all. Nothing is good enough for this fan base. We should have never lost to A&M or USCjr, but we are on the verge of a possible 10 win season and you're still bitc&ing... remarkable.....
 
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#71
#71
orange parmejohn said:
Butch has talked down to the media since he got to Knoxville. Why should he expect grace in return?
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Butch like most coaches has a difficult time when asked questions about football by many in the media who have no idea what they are talking about.

It's like asking a mechanic who can't get a car started if he put the key in the ignition when he tried to start it. The question is well intended but certainly doesn't achieve the desired results, but rather insults the mechanic. This is often why Butch gets defensive.

I work in law enforcement and I get defensive when folks who know very little about the law or the way we enforce it start publicly questioning when proper methods are used by officers/agents.

How would you like it if a Seth Stokes showed up at Your job and started asking you ignorant questions about your job and how you were doing it?
 
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#72
#72
volnal said:
Have to say I'm fed up with the majority of our fan base. And whoever this strider idiot that calls in to Swain Event and use to be on Hookers show is the biggest idiot of them all. Nothing is good enough for this fan base. We should have never lost to A&M or USCjr, but we are on the verge of a possible 10 win season and you're still bitc&ing... remarkable.....
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Agreed. They are about to run of a good football coach and a good guy who cares deeply about winning a championship at UT.
 
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