What Are Some Examples of Programs

[sjt18]

Not sure about this. I've seen some coaches struggle as they go through a down cycle. It happens.

Name one that started in a "down cycle" and survived to win championships. The only one I know of is Beamer.

Bear Bryant went down to 6-5 in 1969 and 1970 before rebounding. So, you have to be careful .... down cycles happen.

He'd already won 3 NC's. There was no question he was a championship caliber coach. There is very little question that Jones isn't.

 

[sanefan]

Hmmm

For some reason I thought he was fired. Was he forced to "resign" or was something else happening?

No, he resigned. They had an AD that was a total jerk and Stallings basically told him he didn't need his crap, especially dealing with an aging Down syndrome son. He averaged 10 wins per year with a NC. Even Bama is not going to fire that record without a reason.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

As a UVA grad I’ll mention Al Groh. A lot of hype early on, good coaching staffs, and great recruiting classes. Should have been fired after a disappointing 2006 season, yet was kept around for three more seasons.

Didn't even think of Grohl but he definitely was over hyped

 

[sanefan]

So what? It hasn't stopped them from hiring bad coaches over the years. Having a mentality of "anything less than a national title is a disappointment" can lead to you making dumb decisions too.

Why are you saying so what?

The thread is about holding on to coaches too long, not about hiring mistakes. It is factual that mistakes at Alabama seem to be handled quickly:

Curry - 3 years
Dubose - 4 years
Shula - 4 years

All three of those coaches had a 10 win season. Even Franchione and Perkins won 10 games in a year, but they resigned. I know, so did Curry, but he saw the writing on the wall.

The point is Alabama makes hiring mistakes like everybody else, they just don't seem to live with them once they realize it.

 

[Rudy123]

Ray Goff at Georgia. It's insane that he lasted 7 years.

Those were to "good ole days" at Georgia. Heck Tennessee could easily beat a Ray goff coached team.

I miss Ron Zook. I miss the coach that replaced Stallings at Bama, Mike Debose. I miss Ray Goff. I miss Houston Nutt.... I miss Gerry DeNardo at LSU. I miss Mike Archer at LSU. I miss Joker Phillips at Ky.

 

[99gator]

Tennessee is the gold standard for this. With both Bill Battle and Fulmer. Battle wasn't recruiting worth anything at all. The program was in bad shape his last two years and horrible shape when Majors arrived.

Fulmer should have been let go in 2005. There were plenty of very concerning flops before that season in 1999 and 2002. Recruiting fell apart. Cutcliffe was a band-aid on a gushing wound. We didn't have any OL or DL depth left at all when Kiffin took over. That senior class graduating was a factor in Kiffin's exit for USC. He knew he wasn't going to be competitive for a few years and wanted to get while the getting was good. Dooley didn't recruit the positions well either. Butch seemingly recruited them well, but we've seen no player development at all from him. So here we sit.

Probably the other best examples have been mentioned, Penn State and Florida State but it's hard to get a legend off the sidelines without a major scandal.

Teams who pull the trigger quickly are usually rewarded eventually. Alabama being a prime example. They fired Ray Perkins after a 10-3 season. Then doubled down and fired Bill Curry after a 10-2 season. Stallings won the NC 3 years later.

Mike Dubose won 10 games and was kept but fired after 3-8 the next year. Shula won 10 games and was fired a season later. NCAA scandals were swirling at the time.

At the time Alabama was firing 10 win coaches who didn't win championships, we were giving Fulmer raises and extensions for 8 win seasons. Thus we are where we are now and they are where they are.

This has been said repeatedly, but there is no way Tennessee could have fired Fulmer after the 2005 season.

No way.

He was 124-31. He had an 80% winning percentage following the 2005 season.

You can not fire an alumnus, with a national title, with an 80% winning percentage for one bad season.

It just wasn't an option.

 

[Dudleys87]

ATM currently

 

[VolArmy74]

This has been said repeatedly, but there is no way Tennessee could have fired Fulmer after the 2005 season.

No way.

He was 124-31. He had an 80% winning percentage following the 2005 season.

You can not fire an alumnus, with a national title, with an 80% winning percentage for one bad season.

It just wasn't an option.

It wasn't one bad season. That was the culmination of a series of disappointments post 1998. It was the 3rd straight flop year that started with high expectations. 1999 we returned a huge amount of the NC team and flopped. 2002 we returned almost every key player from a team that should have played for the NC, and flopped. 2005 we returned a whole load of talent coming off a strong finish and flopped. Each of those years we started the season in the top 5 in the nation and our final result got worse. 3 losses in 1999, 5 in 2002 and 6 in 2005. Losing to Vandy was a fireable offense. Even in the 5 wins that season we barely beat UAB, and barely beat Memphis.

But that mentality is why Alabama, Auburn, Florida, etc passed us in football in the last 15 years. They moved on while we clung.

 

[Biopsyman]

As much as I like him, Bobby Bowden probably stuck around 5-6 years too long. He certainly didn’t ruin the program, but they slipped down to a consistent 7-8 win team his last few years.

Dadgumit

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Since 2000, Mack Brown and Dabo Swinney are the only national champion head coaches to win their first title after year 4 at their school. All of the other coaches won the conference by year 3.

Head Coach - Coach's First National Title With Team - Team Record in Final Season With Previous Coach
Bob Stoops - Year 2 at Oklahoma in 2000 (5-6 in 1998)
Larry Coker - Year 1 at Miami in 2001 (11-1 in 2000)
Jim Tressel - Year 2 at Ohio State in 2002 (8-4 in 2000)
Nick Saban - Year 4 at LSU in 2003 (3-8 in 1999) and Year 3 at Alabama in 2009 (6-7 in 2006)
Pete Carroll - Year 4 at USC in 2004 (5-7 in 2000)
Mack Brown - Year 8 at Texas in 2005 (4-7 in 1997)
Urban Meyer - Year 2 at Florida in 2006 (7-5 in 2004) and Year 3 at Ohio State in 2011 (6-7 in 2008)
Les Miles - Year 3 at LSU in 2007 (9-3 in 2004)
Gene Chizik - Year 2 at Auburn in 2010 (5-7 in 2008)
Jimbo Fisher - Year 4 at FSU in 2013 (7-6 in 2009)
Dabo Swinney - Year 9 at Clemson in 2016 (9-4 in 2007)

6 of the 13 went from having a losing record to a national championship within 4 years.

Technically Dabo won the ACC in his 3rd FULL year as HC; he only coached half of 2008 as the interim.

 

[njvols]

Penn State w/ Franklin...oh wait, he built them up in two years from basically the same level as UT.

 

[vols-1]

Only coach I can think of that was awful the first five years at one school and turned it around is Bill Mcartney.

 

[sanefan]

Teams who pull the trigger quickly are usually rewarded eventually. Alabama being a prime example. They fired Ray Perkins after a 10-3 season. Then doubled down and fired Bill Curry after a 10-2 season. Stallings won the NC 3 years later.

Mike Dubose won 10 games and was kept but fired after 3-8 the next year. Shula won 10 games and was fired a season later. NCAA scandals were swirling at the time.

At the time Alabama was firing 10 win coaches who didn't win championships, we were giving Fulmer raises and extensions for 8 win seasons. Thus we are where we are now and they are where they are.

Alabama did not fire Perkins or Curry.

Perkins left to be head coach and GM of the Tampa Bay Bucs. Curry resigned after a 10 win season to go to Kentucky. I don't think anyone cried, but he was not fired after a 10 win season.