What Are Some Examples of Programs

#26
#26
As a UVA grad I’ll mention Al Groh. A lot of hype early on, good coaching staffs, and great recruiting classes. Should have been fired after a disappointing 2006 season, yet was kept around for three more seasons.
 
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#29
#29
99gator said:
I can't think of a situation that set the program back for years. It was due to making a bad replacement hire.

There are more situations where the program was set back because someone was fired who probably shouldn't have been.

Frank solich - Nebraska
Les Miles - LSU (to be determined)
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David Cutcliffe at Ole Miss and Ralph Friedgen at Maryland should be on that list.
 
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#31
#31
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Who did Bama hang onto too long? Stallings?

I was always of the opinion they fired him too soon and ended up with a string of terrible hires.

Texas is likely a good example but to date it remains to be seen if they are better off.
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Stallings resigned at Alabama because of health concerns with his son
 
#32
#32
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Hmmm

For some reason I thought he was fired. Was he forced to "resign" or was something else happening?
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He retired. He was 62 at the time. Moreover, Alabama had some infractions under his leadership that lead to a restriction on scholarships. That lead to the lost decade between 1996 and Saban's arrival in 2007.
 
#33
#33
Sorry. I misunderstood your question.

Fulmer had earned the right to attempt to turn things around but the right time to fire him for the health of the program was no later than 2005. A replacement would have started with a very talented roster.

Mack Brown had started to lose his recruiting mojo before retiring.

Washington made a series of questionable hires following the retirement of Don James that ultimately led to over 10 years of struggles.

OU was 69-51-3 following the departure of Switzer who was embroiled in scandal before they hired Stoops.

Jerry Faust had the ND job for 5 years before being fired. They went 7-5 for two seasons under Holtz against relatively weak schedules before being able to put it back together.


The question is never "if" you should fire a coach that isn't performing. The question is do you have the courage and wisdom to do it and hire a better coach.
 
#34
#34
Tommy West took a program that had recently won a NC and dug a hole that took Clemson about 20 years to finally climb out of.
 
#35
#35
The best example I can think of is Gary Gibbs at Oklahoma. Maybe Mike Archer at LSU. But in both cases you could argue that bad replacement hires had just as much to do with it. The
 
#36
#36
Ray Goff at Georgia. It's insane that he lasted 7 years.
 
#37
#37
Jeff Tedford at Cal hung around 2-3 seasons longer than he should have. The program wasn’t in very good shape when he was finally dismissed.
 
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#38
#38
sjt18 said:
Jerry Faust had the ND job for 5 years before being fired. They went 7-5 for two seasons under Holtz against relatively weak schedules before being able to put it back together.

The question is never "if" you should fire a coach that isn't performing. The question is do you have the courage and wisdom to do it and hire a better coach.
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Not sure about this. I've seen some coaches struggle as they go through a down cycle. It happens.

Bear Bryant went down to 6-5 in 1969 and 1970 before rebounding. So, you have to be careful .... down cycles happen.
 
#40
#40
R.C. Slocum at Texas A&M fits the bill. Aggies certainly took a major step back his final 4-5 seasons. Program wasn’t in very good shape when Franchione took over. Remember 77-0 in Norman in 2003?
 
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#41
#41
99gator said:
AD protecting a former player.

Anyone else besides Vince and he would have been gone sooner
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Yep. Goff also had imperfectly timed decent years right in the middle. Other than that, he was basically a .500 coach the other 5 years.
 
#42
#42
Jackie Sherrill probably should've been let go a year or two earlier at MSU.... but they didn't because they're MSU.
 
#43
#43
Since 2000, Mack Brown and Dabo Swinney are the only national champion head coaches to win their first title after year 4 at their school. All of the other coaches won the conference by year 3.

Head Coach - Coach's First National Title With Team - Team Record in Final Season With Previous Coach
Bob Stoops - Year 2 at Oklahoma in 2000 (5-6 in 1998)
Larry Coker - Year 1 at Miami in 2001 (11-1 in 2000)
Jim Tressel - Year 2 at Ohio State in 2002 (8-4 in 2000)
Nick Saban - Year 4 at LSU in 2003 (3-8 in 1999) and Year 3 at Alabama in 2009 (6-7 in 2006)
Pete Carroll - Year 4 at USC in 2004 (5-7 in 2000)
Mack Brown - Year 8 at Texas in 2005 (4-7 in 1997)
Urban Meyer - Year 2 at Florida in 2006 (7-5 in 2004) and Year 3 at Ohio State in 2011 (6-7 in 2008)
Les Miles - Year 3 at LSU in 2007 (9-3 in 2004)
Gene Chizik - Year 2 at Auburn in 2010 (5-7 in 2008)
Jimbo Fisher - Year 4 at FSU in 2013 (7-6 in 2009)
Dabo Swinney - Year 9 at Clemson in 2016 (9-4 in 2007)

6 of the 13 went from having a losing record to a national championship within 4 years.
 
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#44
#44
MG1968 said:
Penn State held on to Paterno for way too long.

Jim Tressel at tOSU.

Neither of those really fits the OP's criteria, though.
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Tressel didn't set them back. He maintained a very good record. Just had trouble with SEC teams
 
#45
#45
Tennessee is the gold standard for this. With both Bill Battle and Fulmer. Battle wasn't recruiting worth anything at all. The program was in bad shape his last two years and horrible shape when Majors arrived.

Fulmer should have been let go in 2005. There were plenty of very concerning flops before that season in 1999 and 2002. Recruiting fell apart. Cutcliffe was a band-aid on a gushing wound. We didn't have any OL or DL depth left at all when Kiffin took over. That senior class graduating was a factor in Kiffin's exit for USC. He knew he wasn't going to be competitive for a few years and wanted to get while the getting was good. Dooley didn't recruit the positions well either. Butch seemingly recruited them well, but we've seen no player development at all from him. So here we sit.

Probably the other best examples have been mentioned, Penn State and Florida State but it's hard to get a legend off the sidelines without a major scandal.

Teams who pull the trigger quickly are usually rewarded eventually. Alabama being a prime example. They fired Ray Perkins after a 10-3 season. Then doubled down and fired Bill Curry after a 10-2 season. Stallings won the NC 3 years later.

Mike Dubose won 10 games and was kept but fired after 3-8 the next year. Shula won 10 games and was fired a season later. NCAA scandals were swirling at the time.

At the time Alabama was firing 10 win coaches who didn't win championships, we were giving Fulmer raises and extensions for 8 win seasons. Thus we are where we are now and they are where they are.
 
#46
#46
GAVol said:
Ray Goff at Georgia. It's insane that he lasted 7 years.
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He absolutely needed a turnaround year in year 3, and that's exactly what he did followed by an even better year in year 4. I guess that bought him more time; 3 more mediocre years of it, apparently.

But I agree. It isn't like he inherited a bad program from Dooley but went 6-6 and 4-7 in his first two years. In today's climate, he absolutely would be fired after that second year.
 
#47
#47
VolArmy74 said:
At the time Alabama was firing 10 win coaches who didn't win championships, we were giving Fulmer raises and extensions for 8 win seasons. Thus we are where we are now and they are where they are.
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As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it is hard to part with a long-time coach who has won titles. It's much easier for Alabama to fire Mike DuBose after a 3-8 season in year 4 than it is Phil Fulmer with a 5-6 mark in year 14.
 
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#48
#48
"At the time Alabama was firing 10 win coaches who didn't win championships ... "

THIS. I grew up in Alabama. There is no other expectation at UA except for the national championship. It's all they play for.
 
#49
#49
Bob Neyland said:
"At the time Alabama was firing 10 win coaches who didn't win championships ... "

THIS. I grew up in Alabama. There is no other expectation at UA except for the national championship. It's all they play for.
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So what? It hasn't stopped them from hiring bad coaches over the years. Having a mentality of "anything less than a national title is a disappointment" can lead to you making dumb decisions too.
 
#50
#50
In 2003 Auburn fans were as ready for Tubberville to go as Vol Nation is Butch. They got caught on the tarmac in Louisville courting Petrino before they lost to Bama. Then Tubby beat Bama, the AD apologized for the embarrassment, Barn held on to Tubberville for another year.

The next season Tubberville, who had proven to everyone that he needed to go ... ran the table in the SEC, went undefeated, and should be considered the national champions. It's a good idea to at least let our walking dead HC finish things out first. It ain't getting better in 17'.
 
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