We've gotten more production from 3 stars in 2013 than 5 stars in 2015

#1
Dobbs 4 Heisman

Dobbs 4 Heisman

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#1
Everyone is *****ing about this class not being ranked high. I personally don't get it cause it's not like those back to back top 5 recruiting classes in 2014 and 2015 amounted to any championships yet.

The number on national signing day is nice but it guarantees nothing. Just look at Clemson. They won the national title with a 4 year recruiting rank of 9.3. Our 4 year recruiting rank right now? 9.5. So basically on paper we're as talented going into 2017 as Clemson was in 2016. However, that is just a number on a piece of paper. It means nothing if the players don't pan out.

We struggled on the field last year because our much hyped 2015 class has failed to deliver. It was ranked as high as 3rd overall on 247sports. It included 5 stars like Kahlil McKenzie, Alvin Kamara, Drew Richmond, Kyle Phillips, Preston Williams, and Shy Tuttle. To date only Kamara has lived up to his star ranking. Drew Richmond has been a major disappointment. Preston has already transferred. Kahlil, Kyle Phillips, and Shy have also been major disappointments although they do have the excuse of battling some serious injuries. In fact the our best player from that class might ultimately be a lightly regarded 3 star RB from Michigan named John Kelly.

Compare all those 5 star busts from the 2015 class to all the 3 star hits we had in the 2013 class. Everyone knows about Cam Sutton but we also had 5 other starters on last years team that were 3 stars from the 2013 class. These 3 stars were Corey Vereen, Kendal Vickers, Malik Foreman, Dylan Weisman, and Brett Kendricks. Not all we're stars but all were very solid players. Then you have 4 stars like Josh Dobbs and Jalen Reeves-Maybin that vastly outperformed their star ranking. Both had 5 star careers at Tennessee. One could argue that our mid-20s ranked class from 2013 was vastly superior to our top 5 class from 2015.

So this is just a long way of saying regardless of what happens on NSD, whether your class is ranked in the top 5 or in the mid-20s, it comes down to what happens on the field. Our team last year is proof that a class of 3 stars from 2013 can outperform a class of 5 stars from 2015. Lets hope our 3 stars in 2017 exceed expectations like our 3 stars from 2013.
 
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#2
#2
I agree.....look at Bama, garbage class every year and they luck their way in. Rankings are BS!!! :eek:
 
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#4
#4
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Everyone is *****ing about this class not being ranked high. I personally don't get it cause it's not like those back to back top 5 recruiting classes in 2014 and 2015 amounted to any championships yet.

The number on national signing day is nice but it guarantees nothing. Just look at Clemson. They won the national title with a 4 year recruiting rank of 9.3. Our 4 year recruiting rank right now? 9.5. So basically on paper we're as talented going into 2017 as Clemson was in 2016. However, that is just a number on a piece of paper. It means nothing if the players don't pan out.

We struggled on the field last year because our much hyped 2015 class has failed to deliver. It was ranked as high as 3rd overall on 247sports. It included 5 stars like Kahlil McKenzie, Alvin Kamara, Drew Richmond, Kyle Phillips, Preston Williams, and Shy Tuttle. To date only Kamara has lived up to his star ranking. Drew Richmond has been a major disappointment. Preston has already transferred. Kahlil, Kyle Phillips, and Shy have also been major disappointments although they do have the excuse of battling some serious injuries. In fact the our best player from that class might ultimately be a lightly regarded 3 star RB from Michigan named John Kelly.

Compare all those 5 star busts from the 2015 class to all the 3 star hits we had in the 2013 class. Everyone knows about Cam Sutton but we also had 5 other starters on last years team that were 3 stars from the 2013 class. These 3 stars were Corey Vereen, Kendal Vickers, Malik Foreman, Dylan Weisman, and Brett Kendricks. Not all we're stars but all were very solid players. Then you have 4 stars like Josh Dobbs and Jalen Reeves-Maybin that vastly outperformed their star ranking. Both had 5 star careers at Tennessee. One could argue that our mid-20s ranked class from 2013 was vastly superior to our top 5 class from 2015.

So this is just a long way of saying regardless of what happens on NSD, whether your class is ranked in the top 5 or in the mid-20s, it comes down to what happens on the field. Our team last year is proof that a class of 3 stars from 2013 can outperform a class of 5 stars from 2015. Lets hope our 3 stars in 2017 exceed expectations like our 3 stars from 2013.
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Richmond is far from a bust. He was a RS frosh last year, his first playing time. He has a great chance to dominate this year. KMac, Tuttle, and Phillips have battled injuries. Tuttle when healthy was everything advertised. KMac drew double teams almost every play last year after a disappointing frosh year then injured. These cats will outperform this year as juniors IMO.
 
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#5
#5
I think one thing that will help build momentum for next year will be the NFL draft and how many TN kids are drafted. A few 3 stars will be Sutton and Wiseman. Of course our 4 star Barnett Maybin Dobbs and Malone and Kamara our 5 star. Finally Tennessee returns to having players in the draft it is a big deal for High School kids.
 
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#6
#6
Remy said:
Richmond is far from a bust. He was a RS frosh last year, his first playing time. He has a great chance to dominate this year. KMac, Tuttle, and Phillips have battled injuries. Tuttle when healthy was everything advertised. KMac drew double teams almost every play last year after a disappointing frosh year then injured. These cats will outperform this year as juniors IMO.
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Tuttle should have been ranked higher than KMac imo. Phillips hasn't done anything, and he hasn't had near the caliber of injuries as KMac and Tuttle.
 
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#7
#7
Read a nice article today on the two Super Bowl teams and recruiting. 61% of the starters were not top 500 players. 10 were not even ranked. I do wish we could have signed the 5 star players we missed out on but just like Barton Simmons said today he really likes TN class ad that it is loaded with speed. Yes many need time in weight room but real big upside to many of them. That is why not all 3 star players are equal. Look at the film on many and you see what he is talking about.
 
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#8
#8
When you have only a few five-star recruits and a bunch of three star recruits, of course you're going to have more 3-star recruits pan out.
 
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#10
#10
n_huffhines said:
When you have only a few five-star recruits and a bunch of three star recruits, of course you're going to have more 3-star recruits pan out.
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That and give the 2015 class more time to produce. Of course Seniors are going to be more productive than RS freshmen and Sophomores
 
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#12
#12
n_huffhines said:
When you have only a few five-star recruits and a bunch of three star recruits, of course you're going to have more 3-star recruits pan out.
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Compare our 2013 class that was ranked in the mid-20s to Georgia's 2013 class that was ranked in the top 10. Sometimes a class of 3 stars can exceed a class of 4 and 5 stars. Our 2013 class was pretty phenomenal. We got superstars like Josh Dobbs, Cam Sutton, and JRM in that class. And then a bunch of solid starters like Corey Vereen, Kendal Vickers, Dylan Weisman, Brett Kendricks, Malik Foreman, and Marquez North (for at least 2 years). That class vastly exceeded its ranking on NSD. If there was a redo it would definitely be a top 10 class rather than the mid-to-late 20s class it was according to the recruiting services on NSD.

Who knows maybe the 2017 class will exceed expectations as well. Its ranked #15 right now. In 3 years we might look back at it as a top 5 class.
 
#14
#14
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Everyone is *****ing about this class not being ranked high. I personally don't get it cause it's not like those back to back top 5 recruiting classes in 2014 and 2015 amounted to any championships yet.
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You may be onto something. Top 5 recruiting classes need 5* coaches to realize their potential. Butch is a 3* coach so it's only logical he may do better with 3* recruits. Which is why he should have stayed at Cincy.
 
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#15
#15
Vol Catdaddy said:
Yeah and bama with all their 5 stars! They only win sec and national championships. Who wants that?
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What Bama does is anomalous. Nobody else gets those results. Even Urban Meyer who recruits almost as well as Saban isn't that consistent.

If your definition of being happy with this program is if its like Bama you'll never be happy.
 
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#16
#16
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
What Bama does is anomalous. Nobody else gets those results. Even Urban Meyer who recruits almost as well as Saban isn't that consistent.

If your definition of being happy with this program is if its like Bama you'll never be happy.
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And if your definition of being happy with this program is eagerly waiting to see if it can sneak above .500 against Vanderbilt, then you should be ecstatic.
 
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#17
#17
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
What Bama does is anomalous. Nobody else gets those results. Even Urban Meyer who recruits almost as well as Saban isn't that consistent.

If your definition of being happy with this program is if its like Bama you'll never be happy.
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You use Clemson as your proof case and then call Bama an anomaly?

Spin away but this class does not have the kind of talent that you build a championship program on.

Jones after benefitting from the new coach bump looks to be forming a new performance pattern. He was 15th nationally and 7th in the SEC in both of the last two years. His star average has gone from 3.18 to 3.65 to 3.69 to 3.50 and now to 3.29. This is a better measure of the quality of the players you are signing than rankings that only count the top 20 or so signees.

Maybe if Jones had proven himself to be an elite developer of talent or a great game day coach... there wouldn't be as much reason to be concerned. But we know that isn't true.


As a point of reference... Dooley's worst class by star average was 3.37. Fulmer's decline was marked by classes with star averages under 3.3.
 
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#19
#19
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
What Bama does is anomalous. Nobody else gets those results. Even Urban Meyer who recruits almost as well as Saban isn't that consistent.

If your definition of being happy with this program is if its like Bama you'll never be happy.
Click to expand...


I'll settle for Urban's inconsistency and gladly bank 3 Natty's in the next decade.
 
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#22
#22
sjt18 said:
You use Clemson as your proof case and then call Bama an anomaly?

Spin away but this class does not have the kind of talent that you build a championship program on.

Jones after benefitting from the new coach bump looks to be forming a new performance pattern. He was 15th nationally and 7th in the SEC in both of the last two years. His star average has gone from 3.18 to 3.65 to 3.69 to 3.50 and now to 3.29. This is a better measure of the quality of the players you are signing than rankings that only count the top 20 or so signees.

Maybe if Jones had proven himself to be an elite developer of talent or a great game day coach... there wouldn't be as much reason to be concerned. But we know that isn't true.


As a point of reference... Dooley's worst class by star average was 3.37. Fulmer's decline was marked by classes with star averages under 3.3.
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Like a captain of a ship, like the head coach of a football team gets the blame or glory. However, they both have to depend on their staff. Butch can not train or coach up every player. The staff has to do this. So, when blaming Butch for players not improving over their stay at UT, it has to fall on staff.
Now, who hires staff at a school? This seems to me to be Butch's short coming, evaluating hires for his staff. Like the captain of a ship, he sinks or swims with his staff.
In Butch's case, if he feels the need to micro manage his staff, then he doesn't have confidence in their ability to do their jobs. To me this says he made the wrong hire. And on this thought process goes.....
 
#23
#23
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Compare our 2013 class that was ranked in the mid-20s to Georgia's 2013 class that was ranked in the top 10. Sometimes a class of 3 stars can exceed a class of 4 and 5 stars. Our 2013 class was pretty phenomenal. We got superstars like Josh Dobbs, Cam Sutton, and JRM in that class. And then a bunch of solid starters like Corey Vereen, Kendal Vickers, Dylan Weisman, Brett Kendricks, Malik Foreman, and Marquez North (for at least 2 years). That class vastly exceeded its ranking on NSD. If there was a redo it would definitely be a top 10 class rather than the mid-to-late 20s class it was according to the recruiting services on NSD.

Who knows maybe the 2017 class will exceed expectations as well. Its ranked #15 right now. In 3 years we might look back at it as a top 5 class.
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Yeah I get what you're saying...you're talking about possibilities and I'm talking about likelihoods.

Bama is the only team like Bama (in terms of recruiting success) and they are straight up dominating CFB. There are several teams with the same recruiting success as Clemson and they are not winning titles.

We CAN win with just great recruiting but we'd be better off with elite recruiting.
 
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#24
#24
How has Shy been a disappointment?

The problem isn't the players it's the development

And I love how everyone uses an average to spin it in the right direction. We aren't, in any fashion, on track with Clemson. I'd go as far to say they'd embarrass Tennessee.
 
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