We would have been 5 and 25 with CCM

#102
#102
VolGee4 said:
Well then all-knowing, will you pick my brackets for me?

1. Tyndall's team, while not having a true post player, actually knew how to play offense against a zone defense. You did see passes to the high post, and you actually saw some screen actions against the top of the zone. Martin's first team was atrocious at recognizing and playing against a zone, and I specifically recall the College of Charleston game. I was screaming for them to get the ball to the middle. That is the weakness! The problem is that Tyndall did not have a good player to put at the high post either. Moore is short and has no outside shot. Reese is ok but has an inconsistent shot and his decision making leaves a lot to be desired. He did hit a few. Luke Kornett is a perfect player to put there because he is a 7 footer who can hit the 15 foot shot.
Martin also had a true post player in Maymon his first year. Maymon was strong enough to play his back to the basket. Late in close games, good teams have to have someone that can get them a bucket down low instead of having to rely on a jump shot or trying to free up a lane to get to the basket. If Tyndall had Maymon this year, we have a few more wins.
2. For the most part, Tyndall managed the games effectively with time outs and play calls. There are always going to be things to question because you have to make decisions on the run in sports, and everyone makes mistakes. I was never one to scream at Martin for his timeouts after made baskets, but that caused him not to take as many timeouts on offense and set up plays. You just don't have to do it with the game on the line. Tyndall used them at efficient times.
3. Play calls- without a doubt and I don't see how this can be argued. Tyndall set up some plays late in games that were well-designed. The Hubbs three at Arkansas was one, the JRich play at the wing against OM was one, and I believe Richardson even had a look at UGA. He got Hubbs open, and even though JRich missed a good shot at OM, Punter was open for the win. I didn't see all of the early games, so I can't comment as much on those. But the team played much better in the second half almost the entire year, even with 9 players. That is coaching and adjustments. Just because a play is not executed does not mean it wasn't a good call.
4. The defense was frustrating at times. Sure, we could have rotated and closed out better. I would hope it had something to do with personnel. I do think they overextended some games. If you play a zone, then why play the man 30 feet from the basket? However, the fact that he had no true post player forced Tyndall to pack it in for most games. The first Vandy game was a great example- Damian Jones sealed his man on numerous occasions and did whatever he want. With a limited roster, you play the percentages. MSU was the worst 3 point shooting team in the league, and they have slashers. They shot well in the second game, and you just have to credit them. LSU has the best inside tandem in the league, and they shot well in the first game. You have to give up something when you are playing a 6'5" guy at PF and a 6'8" wing at C.

Look, I am not saying that Tyndall is a genius and that his offense was very exciting. I do believe that personnel has a lot to do with it. With even a healthy Jabari McGhee and maybe Ian Chiles, they probably win a few more games. But, I saw enough on the court to know that Tyndall understands the fundamentals and the angles of the game. I have maintained the stance that he will have to recruit better, and we will see what happens with the NCAA.

I defended Martin for 2.5 years- week after week on this board. I lost confidence after the second Texas A&M game last year- just inexcusable because we had twice the talent as them. And it wasn't the first time. I always maintained that we just needed to take advantage of our team and see how the season played out. I wasn't sure if Martin was the long term answer, but I knew the team could make a run. I thoroughly enjoyed the run to the Sweet 16 and one call away from an Elite Eight. His teams played great defense at times, but just like Tyndall and the zone, Martin didn't want to change his defense up until he was forced to do it in year 3. The first Xavier game last year was a perfect game to play zone because they had no outside shooters, yet we let Christon drive all night and Stainbrook win inside. You just have to play toward your strengths and your opponents' weaknesses.

I appreciate what Martin did for UT, but the difference in coaching is just clear to me. Maybe Tyndall doesn't make it at UT. Maybe he can't recruit consistently enough. Maybe he gets worse. But from the sample size I have seen with a roster that wasn't very good, the man can coach. Dare I say that he outcoached Bruce Pearl this year with comparable talent, and I love Bruce. It is just as simple as that, and you have to use your eyes. Just because one coach won 19 games his first year and another won 16 doesn't mean the one with 19 is better. I think I can argue that the league is better this year, and the NCAA bids will show that. A whole bunch of variables.

I just don't understand how people say Tyndall isn't a good coach. I know some won't read this because it was long. But you wanted specifics and not conclusory statements, and you got it.
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Fingers tired?
 
#104
#104
I am done with this thread but I will ask this. If you want to know if DT exceeded expectations this year then just answer these questions.

#1 With the mass exodus of players before the season started and the scrubs that made it in, did any of you expect us to finish with a winning record? The SEC coaches sure didn't picking us almost dead last!

#2 Did any of you expect us to knock off 2 top 20 teams?

I for one can say NO to both so in my mind DT did exceed expectations and this season was not a bust. The next season and continuing recruiting will decide his fate if the NCAA doesn't decide it for him.
 
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#105
#105
calban said:
I expected a .500 season.
A 16-16 finish isn't even up to tyndall's expectation.
When asked what to expect, he answered 'a winning season'.
He did what was expected by most, but wouldn't call it close to over achieving.
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Not true Vols were predicted no better than 13 in the SEC that doesn't get them to .500.

Based on the roster this team overachieved, and last years team underachieved.
 
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#106
#106
Kelley_VFL said:
I am done with this thread but I will ask this. If you want to know if DT exceeded expectations this year then just answer these questions.

#1 With the mass exodus of players before the season started and the scrubs that made it in, did any of you expect us to finish with a winning record? The SEC coaches sure didn't picking us almost dead last!

#2 Did any of you expect us to knock off 2 top 20 teams?

I for one can say NO to both so in my mind DT did exceed expectations and this season was not a bust. The next season and continuing recruiting will decide his fate if the NCAA doesn't decide it for him.
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Thank you for the clarity!
 
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#108
#108
gunner said:
Not true Vols were predicted no better than 13 in the SEC that doesn't get them to .500.

Based on the roster this team overachieved, and last years team underachieved.
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Last year's team was not ranked and finished Sweet 16. How did they underachieve then?
 
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#109
#109
k-town_king said:
Why bring Up Martin? Plus he far outperformed CDT his first year in comparison. He did a way better job.

So TNV, what shooters did Martin inherit?

Martin also had more scholarships available plus the recruits, and Thompson and Davis. We would have had more talent and experience this year.

So you think a offense that averaged the fewest points in decades is more exciting than better offenses that won more?

You also don't recall the many close games we lost this year when CDT didn't draw up a great play that worked? Everyone draws up plays with the game on the line. You only get credit if they work.

SD both Martin and Tyndall inherit about the same production, both were picked bottom of the conference.
One coach 16-16 10th in conference. The other coach 19-15 2nd in conference. One coach clearly did a much better job coaching.

I know some of you still hate Martin and want to make Tyndall look better, but come on. Martin did way better comparing first years and his offense was way better. Stop making silly comparisons.




HTML:
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You lost all credibility when you said they both inherited the same amount of talent.
 
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#110
#110
5 and 25.......Hell, that's being generous. Well, there were a few cupcake teams at the beginning of the season.........then again, that previous coach would have lost most of them too. The last coach with this exact same team, yeah, 5 and 25 sounds about right.
 
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#112
#112
volbeast33 said:
This thread is stupid but their is no comparison following a Pearl recruited team and a Pearl recruited team... Part of the reason this season was so bad was bc of Zo's horrible recruiting.
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Huh? It's because all his recruits left...other than his recruits Armani Moore, Hubbs and oh yeah Richardson ...
 
#113
#113
MR_VOL said:
5 and 25.......Hell, that's being generous. Well, there were a few cupcake teams at the beginning of the season.........then again, that previous coach would have lost most of them too. The last coach with this exact same team, yeah, 5 and 25 sounds about right.
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My goodness....there are two of them.
 
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#114
#114
k-town_king said:
Last year's team was not ranked and finished Sweet 16. How did they underachieve then?
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Last years team had the roster to win the SEC or at least give FL a run for their money, but they did NOT. I was very disappointed in the team last season until they got in the NCAAT. As they were the last team to get in. It took a petition to get them to play up to their full potential, and that was Martin's fault, his team always underachieve.
 
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#117
#117
k-town_king said:
Last year's team was not ranked and finished Sweet 16. How did they underachieve then?
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It's very obvious some of these fans are not going to give CCM any credit. They roast a post about CDT's weight but they attack CCM's speaking abilities. I wonder why that is?
 
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#119
#119
VolGee4 said:
Bruce will end up 15-20. End of discussion.
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After seeing Auburn and Tennessee play through the season, as well as the head to head game, I am convinced that Auburn has much more talent at the 5, 4 and 3 positions and that Bruce should have won more games during the season than they did. In addition, Donnie who more games than the talent projected and won head to head against Bruce. I think we have the better on court coach, but reserve my opinion on recruiting until the NCAA Stuff is finished. As of today, I think we will do just fine with Donnie.
 
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#120
#120
VolGee4 said:
Bruce will end up 15-20. End of discussion.
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After seeing Auburn and Tennessee play through the season, as well as the head to head game, I am convinced that Auburn has much more talent at the 5, 4 and 3 positions and that Bruce should have won more games during the season than they did. In addition, Donnie who more games than the talent projected and won head to head against Bruce. I think we have the better on court coach, but reserve my opinion on recruiting until the NCAA Stuff is finished. As of today, I think we will do just fine with Donnie. I realize that Bruce had th Program in good shape when hi pulled his downfall and would be contending with Kentucky at the top of the SEC. However, his dishonesty doomed his future here. I think both Tennessee and Auburn will field very competitive teams in the future.
 
#121
#121
crusse10 said:
I still think race played at least a small part in Cuonzo not becoming a favorite across the board
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Probably, but it didn't help that the team failed to make the tourney his first 2 years after going 6 straight. I'm not saying that's totally his fault, but who else is the majority of the fans going to blame? His personality and recruiting didn't help either.
 
#123
#123
crusse10 said:
I still think race played at least a small part in Cuonzo not becoming a favorite across the board
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There will probably be a few but it has zero to do with my opinion of him and if u remember after the first yr it was overwhelmingly in favor of him. Don't think his skin color changed after the first yr.
 
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#125
#125
crusse10 said:
I still think race played at least a small part in Cuonzo not becoming a favorite across the board
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That's the reason why some the older boosters wouldn't let him use the private jet, so yeah it probably had a little to do with it. The jet of course was for recruiting.
 
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