We just witnessed the greatest season by a UT QB not named Manning

#126
#126
agent|orange said:
You know what? I'll post Hooker's 4th Quarter stats from this year and 2019 Jarrett Guarantano. You tell me which one is which.

4th Quarter: 52 attempts | 61.5% completion | 472 yards | 9.1YPA | 4 TD | 2 INT | 7 sacks | 155.5 rating
4th Quarter: 50 attempts | 64.0% completion | 501 yards | 10.0YPA | 2 TD | 1 INT | 6 sacks | 157.4 rating

He's All-American in the 1st and then quietly becomes a run-of-the-mill QB in the 4th. That's just.. how it is. Unless you want to say 2019 JG was a good QB?
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They’ve got to make Hooker understand to get down and not take the hits. That’s the difference and it showed in the bowl game also. He was taking to many hits and on top of that he let them in his mind. I never seen that out of him all year...talking smack and letting them get to him.
 
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#128
#128
Mtnvol80 said:
It's meaningless to compare today to yesteryear. Put Peyton in this era and his numbers go up substantially. Been teams putting up over 500 points a season since the 80s. UT just finally decided to get with the times. Peytons best year (1997) would rank 3rd this year in the sec. Burrow threw for almost 2000 more yards than Peyton in 97.
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Good points. Didn't Burrow throw 60 TDs at LSU as a senior? 60.
 
#129
#129
perico said:
What’s overshadowed by an inconsistent team this year is this:

Statistically speaking, there isn’t much room for debate. Hendon’s 2021 season is the greatest by a Vol QB not named Peyton. His final numbers for the year are just insane, and he achieved these without any meaningful snaps in our opening game against BGSU to inflate his statistics. He finished the year with roughly 3000 passing yards (2,945 to be exact), 31 TDs and 3 Ints. He had the highest yards per pass attempt in program history (better than Peyton in any of his 4 seasons), and still completed 68.1% of his passes (Manning’s best was 64.3%).

Here are some comparison numbers. I’m leaving out some of the greats such as Holloway, as their numbers are pedestrian due to the offenses they ran at the time and don’t reflect on their greatness as a QB:

Single season best Yards per attempt:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 9.8
Clausen in 2001: 8.4
Manning in 1996: 8.7
Martin in 1998: 8.1
Kelly in 1991: 8.3
Ainge in 2006: 8.6
Bray in 2012: 8.0
Shuler in 1993: 8.3
Dobbs in 2016: 8.3



Highest single season completion pct:

Hooker in 2021: 68.1%
Kelly in 1991: 63.1%
Shuler in 1993: 64.6%
Peyton In 1995: 64.2%
Martin in 1998: 57.4%
Clausen in 2001: 64.1%
Ainge in 2006: 67.0%
Crompton in 2009: 58.3%
Bray in 2011: 59.5%
Dobbs in 2016: 63.0% (63.6% in 2015 with 6 starts)
JG in 2018: 62.2%



Best TD to Int Ratio in a season

Hooker in 2021: 31 TDs: 3 INTs
Kelly in 1991: 15 TDs, 15 INTs (Great QB, but dude was an INT machine)
Shuler in 1993: 25:8
Manning in 1997: 36:11
Martin in 1998: 19:6
Clausen in 2003: 27/9
Ainge in 2007: 31:10
Crompton in 2009: 27:13
Bray in 2012: 34:12
Dobbs in 2016: 27/12

Only Joshua Dobbs had more rushing yards in a season (2015 and 2016).
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What adds to this amazing performance: we were one of the worst teams in the nation this year in pass protection. We gave up 44 sacks…44. Ranked 123 in the country among FBS teams in protecting the QB. This calm, cool, humble kid spent much of his time running for his life in games and still just lit it up with these crazy numbers. His jersey Thursday night had a lot of green on it as usual…grass stains.

To me, this is historic, as the OP’s numbers show. Yes, wins and championships are most important but this guy…he is one of the best to wear the orange and white in my lifetime. Let’s never forget his performance this year. And let’s please do a better job next year in keeping his uniform clean.
 
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#131
#131
agent|orange said:
I know I'm being a Debbie Downer, but here's another angle:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 7 wins
Clausen in 2001: 11 wins
Manning in 1996: 10 wins
Martin in 1998: 13 wins and a NC
Kelly in 1991: 9 wins
Ainge in 2006: 9 wins
Bray in 2012: 5 wins
Shuler in 1993: 10 wins
Dobbs in 2016: 9 wins

QBs are the only position judged both by their wins and how they affect W/L. I think we're a 5 win team without Hooker and a 9-10 win team with better (or at least more consistent) QB play.

Without Tillman, Hooker doesn't do much. Without basically ANY WR, Purdue's walk-on QB still absolutely trashed us. That's the difference IMO. Hooker himself is very inconsistent. He has a spectacular 1st Quarter, bad 2nd Quarter, usually a good couple of drives in the 3rd Quarter and his 4th Quarter is usually his worst. That's not good for a QB.
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Number of wins is an asinine and juvenile way of judging an individual in a team sport involving at least 21 others. The LJ/MJ debate has elevated this terrible metric into these types of discussions. Dang we gonna have to start saying there's no I in teamwork again. Does anyone believe we win 10/11/13 games with this team by swapping QBs? Crazy talk.
 
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#133
#133
agent|orange said:
This is why:

1st Quarter: 87 attempts | 70.1% completion | 983 yards | 11.3YPA | 14 TD | 0 INT | 4 sacks | 218 rating
2nd Quarter: 94 attempts | 66.0% completion | 836 yards | 8.9YPA | 9 TD | 1 INT | 13 sacks | 170.1 rating
3rd Quarter: 68 attempts | 73.5% completion | 648 yards | 9.5YPA | 4 TD | 0 INT | 11 sacks | 173 rating
4th Quarter: 52 attempts | 61.5% completion | 472 yards | 9.1YPA | 4 TD | 2 INT | 7 sacks | 155.5 rating

Now for JG's 2019 4th Quarter:
4th Quarter: 50 attempts | 64.0% completion | 501 yards | 10.0YPA | 2 TD | 1 INT | 6 sacks | 157.4 rating

We're blinded by how incredible he is to start the game. His 4th Quarter this year was almost identical to JG's 4th in 2019.
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JG was playing 3rd string defenses and walk on’s in the 4th quarter due to being blown out every game he played.
 
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#134
#134
Mtnvol80 said:
It's meaningless to compare today to yesteryear. Put Peyton in this era and his numbers go up substantially. Been teams putting up over 500 points a season since the 80s. UT just finally decided to get with the times. Peytons best year (1997) would rank 3rd this year in the sec. Burrow threw for almost 2000 more yards than Peyton in 97.
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Peyton didn't have the legs or elusiveness
 
#135
#135
mayneland said:
Peyton didn't have the legs or elusiveness
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No he did not. Different game in that era though. Got me thinking about different rules instituted since that time. Does anyone remember the last rule put in place to specifically help the defense?
 
#136
#136
perico said:
What’s overshadowed by an inconsistent team this year is this:

Statistically speaking, there isn’t much room for debate. Hendon’s 2021 season is the greatest by a Vol QB not named Peyton. His final numbers for the year are just insane, and he achieved these without any meaningful snaps in our opening game against BGSU to inflate his statistics. He finished the year with roughly 3000 passing yards (2,945 to be exact), 31 TDs and 3 Ints. He had the highest yards per pass attempt in program history (better than Peyton in any of his 4 seasons), and still completed 68.1% of his passes (Manning’s best was 64.3%).

Here are some comparison numbers. I’m leaving out some of the greats such as Holloway, as their numbers are pedestrian due to the offenses they ran at the time and don’t reflect on their greatness as a QB:

Single season best Yards per attempt:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 9.8
Clausen in 2001: 8.4
Manning in 1996: 8.7
Martin in 1998: 8.1
Kelly in 1991: 8.3
Ainge in 2006: 8.6
Bray in 2012: 8.0
Shuler in 1993: 8.3
Dobbs in 2016: 8.3



Highest single season completion pct:

Hooker in 2021: 68.1%
Kelly in 1991: 63.1%
Shuler in 1993: 64.6%
Peyton In 1995: 64.2%
Martin in 1998: 57.4%
Clausen in 2001: 64.1%
Ainge in 2006: 67.0%
Crompton in 2009: 58.3%
Bray in 2011: 59.5%
Dobbs in 2016: 63.0% (63.6% in 2015 with 6 starts)
JG in 2018: 62.2%



Best TD to Int Ratio in a season

Hooker in 2021: 31 TDs: 3 INTs
Kelly in 1991: 15 TDs, 15 INTs (Great QB, but dude was an INT machine)
Shuler in 1993: 25:8
Manning in 1997: 36:11
Martin in 1998: 19:6
Clausen in 2003: 27/9
Ainge in 2007: 31:10
Crompton in 2009: 27:13
Bray in 2012: 34:12
Dobbs in 2016: 27/12

Only Joshua Dobbs had more rushing yards in a season (2015 and 2016).
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And, you have to add that this was with a team that was patched together after the mass exodus with many scholarships unfilled. What Hooker has done is remarkable, and I truly believe we would have beaten Pittsburgh with Hooker playing. It never amazes me how many NegaVols post on this site








































1
 
#137
#137
agent|orange said:
You know what? I'll post Hooker's 4th Quarter stats from this year and 2019 Jarrett Guarantano. You tell me which one is which.

4th Quarter: 52 attempts | 61.5% completion | 472 yards | 9.1YPA | 4 TD | 2 INT | 7 sacks | 155.5 rating
4th Quarter: 50 attempts | 64.0% completion | 501 yards | 10.0YPA | 2 TD | 1 INT | 6 sacks | 157.4 rating

He's All-American in the 1st and then quietly becomes a run-of-the-mill QB in the 4th. That's just.. how it is. Unless you want to say 2019 JG was a good QB?
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Could be that JG had better 4th Q stats after the other team put their 3rd string/scout team on the field.
 
#138
#138
mayneland said:
Peyton didn't have the legs or elusiveness
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Neither did Mac Jones and he threw for 4500 and had the most passing yards in a season as a Bama QB . Bryce young just broke macs record and he hardly ever runs but he could. These QBs that run a lot don't put up big passing stats cause.......they're running. Nick Fitzgerald comes to mind. Burrow could run but didn't unless he absolutely had to hence the 5800 passing yards and 60 TDs.
 
#139
#139
agent|orange said:
Difficult concept time:

QBs are the most important players on the team and can't be judged just by completion %/yards/etc but more so by how they play when it really matters which is 4th Quarter.

Will I look back on 2021 Hooker and say "that's the best QB play I've seen in my entire life"? Absolutely not. He had a good year but in a system and an overall climate of the sport that heavily favors open offenses where QBs will feast.

We had the "greatest season by a UT QB not named Manning" that resulted in 7 wins. Sorry if I'm not breaking out the champagne here.
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Which is why I included the “statistically speaking” part. I would rate Dobbs in 2016, Shuler in 1993, Clausen in 2001, and Martin for the second halves of both his seasons as better seasons beyond the numbers.

However: Statistically, this one was better than any others.
 
#140
#140
Volsfaninva917 said:
Tee Martin was an average QB at best
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Average doesn’t win SEC offensive player of the week 3 times in one season or be 1st team All SEC like Martin was his senior year. Martin was a game manager with a cannon and wheels. He wasn’t extremely accurate, but played the first month of his senior year with his body destroyed. Only Bray, Shuler and Crompton could throw a comparable deep ball.

After we beat SEC champion Bama in Tuscaloosa his senior year, Sports Illustrated proclaimed him the best player in CFB. Now he wasn’t, but Martin is the kind of QB where numbers didn’t do him justice. He could look average one week, but then completely take over a game like he did against UGA, Notre Dame and a Top 5 Bama team his senior year. He was near unbeatable when at his best. He wasn’t consistent and it usually took him a month to find his groove.
 
#141
#141
RiverVol said:
Hooker’s stats stand up with any others. You are failing to evaluate the team around Hooker for the differential between W/L.

I hope this was not his best year, but he had a good one for sure.
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I think anyone who can’t see the difference between the level of QB play displayed by Hooker this year and the level displayed by Ainge his senior year does not have much understanding of the position. Ainge would have been an NFL starter had it not been for his well-documented drug problem. No other QB from here has come close to starting in the NFL since Manning, and Hooker would not have been drafted at all if he had come out this year, would have signed as an undrafted FA like Bray. He has a long way to go on timing, reading defenses, and working through progressions.
 
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