We just witnessed the greatest season by a UT QB not named Manning

#104
#104
rjd970 said:
This combined with the other stats tells me Hooker wasn’t the problem.
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I don't think Hooker was the problem but I also don't think he did enough to warrant being crowned the greatest season holder in UT history.

Maybe beating a rival or two and winning 10 games and we'll talk. QBs are always judged by their performances in big games, fair or not.

For right now the guy who beat UF, UGA and Bama in the same year, won the SEC and was a big reason we did all that and won a NC had the greatest season.

YPA and other stats don't mean much in a loss. Just ask Jim Kelly and Dan Marino
 
#105
#105
Pick the season that was best among these QB match ups.

Example 1.
134-226-1502 12td/11int

357-571-4413 33td/15int

Example 2.
259-468-3487 21td/22int

378-623-4746 44td/23int
 
#106
#106
VolArmy74 said:
Pick the season that was best among these QB match ups.

Example 1.
134-226-1502 12td/11int

357-571-4413 33td/15int

Example 2.
259-468-3487 21td/22int

378-623-4746 44td/23int
Click to expand...

Context matters. Who were the stats compiled against?

Dropping 400 on Directional State doesn't matter if you're locked down against any moderate opponent.

Yall really saying who you beat doesn't matter?
 
#107
#107
agent|orange said:
You know what? I'll post Hooker's 4th Quarter stats from this year and 2019 Jarrett Guarantano. You tell me which one is which.

4th Quarter: 52 attempts | 61.5% completion | 472 yards | 9.1YPA | 4 TD | 2 INT | 7 sacks | 155.5 rating
4th Quarter: 50 attempts | 64.0% completion | 501 yards | 10.0YPA | 2 TD | 1 INT | 6 sacks | 157.4 rating

He's All-American in the 1st and then quietly becomes a run-of-the-mill QB in the 4th. That's just.. how it is. Unless you want to say 2019 JG was a good QB?
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JG wasn’t good in any quarter.
 
#108
#108
agent|orange said:
Context matters. Who were the stats compiled against?

Dropping 400 on Directional State doesn't matter if you're locked down against any moderate opponent.

Yall really saying who you beat doesn't matter?
Click to expand...

Context matters. Talent you play against AND the talent you play with.
 
#109
#109
agent|orange said:
Context matters. Who were the stats compiled against?

Dropping 400 on Directional State doesn't matter if you're locked down against any moderate opponent.

Yall really saying who you beat doesn't matter?
Click to expand...

The competition is virtually equal in these seasons.
 
#111
#111
agent|orange said:
I don't think Hooker was the problem but I also don't think he did enough to warrant being crowned the greatest season holder in UT history.

Maybe beating a rival or two and winning 10 games and we'll talk. QBs are always judged by their performances in big games, fair or not.

For right now the guy who beat UF, UGA and Bama in the same year, won the SEC and was a big reason we did all that and won a NC had the greatest season.

YPA and other stats don't mean much in a loss. Just ask Jim Kelly and Dan Marino
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So if a QB throws for say 400 yds and 4 TDs but the team loses, he’s not as good a QB as one that goes 9 for 21 with 1 TD but wins in OT?
 
#112
#112
agent|orange said:
I know I'm being a Debbie Downer, but here's another angle:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 7 wins
Clausen in 2001: 11 wins
Manning in 1996: 10 wins
Martin in 1998: 13 wins and a NC
Kelly in 1991: 9 wins
Ainge in 2006: 9 wins
Bray in 2012: 5 wins
Shuler in 1993: 10 wins
Dobbs in 2016: 9 wins

QBs are the only position judged both by their wins and how they affect W/L. I think we're a 5 win team without Hooker and a 9-10 win team with better (or at least more consistent) QB play.

Without Tillman, Hooker doesn't do much. Without basically ANY WR, Purdue's walk-on QB still absolutely trashed us. That's the difference IMO. Hooker himself is very inconsistent. He has a spectacular 1st Quarter, bad 2nd Quarter, usually a good couple of drives in the 3rd Quarter and his 4th Quarter is usually his worst. That's not good for a QB.
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Bruhhhh. Sh!t Take of the Year.
 
#113
#113
Rickyvol77 said:
So if a QB throws for say 400 yds and 4 TDs but the team loses, he’s not as good a QB as one that goes 9 for 21 with 1 TD but wins in OT?
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It's not just singular wins or stats, it's both that must be considered when you crown someone the GOAT be it player or season.

A huge knock on Manning was the fact he never beat Florida and the fact he never won a NCG. That's why he didn't win the Heisman and he's not discussed as one of the best CFB QBs ever. Simple as.

I think HH absolutely can be GOAT at UT. He needs to calm down later in the game. Commentators mentioned it last night and his stats agree with them. He isn't as proficient in the 2nd Half, definitely not 4Q as he is the 1Q. Can't argue stats.
 
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#114
#114
agent|orange said:
Yet JG and HH 4Q stats are identical just about

Curious
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I think CJH game planned, with his staff, all season long with what he had to work with, after the mass exodus of players, not to mention trying to implement a totally new offensive and defensive systems and dealing with C19, the total body of work he got out his offense is amazing in my opinion. With a year of this system in his belt, I would very disappointed if HH didn’t significantly improve next season.
 
#115
#115
Rabid Vol said:
I think CJH game planned, with his staff, all season long with what he had to work with, after the mass exodus of players, not to mention trying to implement a totally new offensive and defensive systems and dealing with C19, the total body of work he got out his offense is amazing in my opinion. With a year of this system in his belt, I would very disappointed if HH didn’t significantly improve next season.
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Agree on all counts. The potential is there without a doubt. We just haven't put in together yet.
 
#116
#116
VolArmy74 said:
Pick the season that was best among these QB match ups.

Example 1.
134-226-1502 12td/11int

357-571-4413 33td/15int

Example 2.
259-468-3487 21td/22int

378-623-4746 44td/23int
Click to expand...

Since this was skipped by the record matters guys

Example 1, the top is Trent Dilfer. He only lost 1 game that season and won the Super Bowl. It just so happened that he had maybe the best defense of all time and Jamal Lewis ran for about 2000 yards that year.

The 4400 yard/33 td season is Peyton Manning that same year. The Colts went 10-6 and lost in the first round.

Example 2
Phil Simms was decent as the Giants won the Super Bowl but had more ints than tds. The Giants also happened to have one of the great defenses of all time led by LT. Morris ran for almost 1600 yards and 14 tds to lead a potent rushing attack.

The 4700yd 44 td season is Dan Marino that same year. The Dolphins went 8-8 that season while leading the NFL in scoring. Their defense was terrible that year. They gave up 3500 yards passing and over 2500 on the ground for close to 5ypc. Which is massive for a team to surrender in the NFL.

This leads back to the fact that judging a QB by wins and losses is not based in any objective metric in a game where 21 other people are on the field at all times and where you can have a record setting game and still lose for reasons completely out of your control. You can also win while actually being a negative to your teams chances.
 
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#117
#117
Perhaps Hooker's early game stats are due to scripted plays by coach? As the season rolled on he seemed to improve in his decision making....
 
#118
#118
Feed that O-line the good stuff for another 7
months, get those receivers ballistic training and hands drills every day. and… and and aaaand… Hooker and WRs running timing drills as often as other players play video games.

If that happens, next season could be the stuff of legend.
 
#121
#121
perico said:
What’s overshadowed by an inconsistent team this year is this:

Statistically speaking, there isn’t much room for debate. Hendon’s 2021 season is the greatest by a Vol QB not named Peyton. His final numbers for the year are just insane, and he achieved these without any meaningful snaps in our opening game against BGSU to inflate his statistics. He finished the year with roughly 3000 passing yards (2,945 to be exact), 31 TDs and 3 Ints. He had the highest yards per pass attempt in program history (better than Peyton in any of his 4 seasons), and still completed 68.1% of his passes (Manning’s best was 64.3%).

Here are some comparison numbers. I’m leaving out some of the greats such as Holloway, as their numbers are pedestrian due to the offenses they ran at the time and don’t reflect on their greatness as a QB:

Single season best Yards per attempt:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 9.8
Clausen in 2001: 8.4
Manning in 1996: 8.7
Martin in 1998: 8.1
Kelly in 1991: 8.3
Ainge in 2006: 8.6
Bray in 2012: 8.0
Shuler in 1993: 8.3
Dobbs in 2016: 8.3



Highest single season completion pct:

Hooker in 2021: 68.1%
Kelly in 1991: 63.1%
Shuler in 1993: 64.6%
Peyton In 1995: 64.2%
Martin in 1998: 57.4%
Clausen in 2001: 64.1%
Ainge in 2006: 67.0%
Crompton in 2009: 58.3%
Bray in 2011: 59.5%
Dobbs in 2016: 63.0% (63.6% in 2015 with 6 starts)
JG in 2018: 62.2%



Best TD to Int Ratio in a season

Hooker in 2021: 31 TDs: 3 INTs
Kelly in 1991: 15 TDs, 15 INTs (Great QB, but dude was an INT machine)
Shuler in 1993: 25:8
Manning in 1997: 36:11
Martin in 1998: 19:6
Clausen in 2003: 27/9
Ainge in 2007: 31:10
Crompton in 2009: 27:13
Bray in 2012: 34:12
Dobbs in 2016: 27/12

Only Joshua Dobbs had more rushing yards in a season (2015 and 2016).
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This is really, really silly. You do understand that stats alone don't mean a lot, hopefully? Hooker had a decent season; he also beat no one of consequence, unlike many previous Vol QBs. Ainge beat UGA as a freshman and the dawgs were ranked in the top ten at the time; he threw for 31 TDs his senior season and played in the SEC championship; were it not for wildly corrupt officiating in said championship, Ainge would have played for the BCS title that year.
 
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#122
#122
agent|orange said:
Counterpoint:

Having an offense that can only possess the ball for 15:00 in a high stakes game of score-in-2:00 or punt-in-:45 will make even the vaunted 2001 defense gassed.

We live and die by that scheme and it'll fail more than succeed if we don't execute. Our execution late game has been lacking, hence my stats but people don't want to talk about flaws in a 7-6 season and would instead... cheer for being barely over .500 so long as the QB has a good year heavily skewed by early game efficiency... I guess.
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No, we DO want to talk about it. There are threads about it, but this is the Hendon Hooker appreciation thread though.😎
GBO!!
 
#123
#123
lifeisdeep said:
This is really, really silly. You do understand that stats alone don't mean a lot, hopefully? Hooker had a decent season; he also beat no one of consequence, unlike many previous Vol QBs. Ainge beat UGA as a freshman and the dawgs were ranked in the top ten at the time; he threw for 31 TDs his senior season and played in the SEC championship; were it not for wildly corrupt officiating in said championship, Ainge would have played for the BCS title that year.
Click to expand...


Hooker’s stats stand up with any others. You are failing to evaluate the team around Hooker for the differential between W/L.

I hope this was not his best year, but he had a good one for sure.
 
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#124
#124
lifeisdeep said:
This is really, really silly. You do understand that stats alone don't mean a lot, hopefully? Hooker had a decent season; he also beat no one of consequence, unlike many previous Vol QBs. Ainge beat UGA as a freshman and the dawgs were ranked in the top ten at the time; he threw for 31 TDs his senior season and played in the SEC championship; were it not for wildly corrupt officiating in said championship, Ainge would have played for the BCS title that year.
Click to expand...
They do when you start your point with STATISTICALLY SPEAKING! The OP pointed out that he is specifically talking statistics, not wins and losses or championships. It may not be the greatest season, but I put it up there with those Peyton, Ainge, Bray and Dobbs, seasons.
GBO!!
 
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