We Got Ourselves A Coach

#151
#151
OrangeBalls said:
I don't think you can compare basketball to football. I know the analogy you're trying to use, but trying to turn around a program in football in the best conference in America vs. trying to win in the SEC in hoops is like night and day. Also, upsets happen much more regularly in hoops than they do in football. It's a numbers game. See Michigan and their losses to NJIT and Eastern Michigan for proof.
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He hasn't even played in the SEC yet. The tough schedule excuse is a convenient one, but the football team was having issues with terrible teams like Vanderbilt and teams in a lower division, like Chattanooga. Jones is batting right about at his team's talent level, which says a lot about the fact that he's not a moron like his predecessor. I don't see Jones making his team better than it is, whereas I do for Tyndall.
 
#152
#152
OrangeBalls said:
Yep, and as I stated, the line moved to Butler to -1.5 by tip. Hence, they were favored.
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Throw him a bone! It's rough enough for him that Tennessee under Tyndall beat a top 15 team...for it to be a slight upset? :pinch:
 
#153
#153
Unimane said:
He hasn't even played in the SEC yet. The tough schedule excuse is a convenient one, but the football team was having issues with terrible teams like Vanderbilt and teams in a lower division, like Chattanooga. Jones is batting right about at his team's talent level, which says a lot about the fact that he's not a moron like his predecessor. I don't see Jones making his team better than it is, whereas I do for Tyndall.
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Do you think Nick Saban is a great coach? Most reasonable people do. However, how good is he when he doesn't have a lot of talent? He went 7-6 in his first year at Bama. Why? Because he didn't have 4-5 stars at every position like he does now. One guy can take over a hoops game and make a coach look good. That rarely happens in football. That's why hoops is much more on an even playing field in my opinion. It's a numbers game. Well, unless you're Ky and you're basically a semi-pro team.

I think the jury is still out on Tyndall and Jones. I'll judge Jones more in the next 2 years when it's more his team. He played a ton of freshmen this year while the Bama's, LSU's and the like could redshirt their freshmen because they were stockpiled with talent. Based on the early showings, I hope Tyndall can stick around to show us that he is a good coach if the NCAA doesn't hammer him.
 
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#154
#154
OrangeBalls said:
Do you think Nick Saban is a great coach? Most reasonable people do. However, how good is he when he doesn't have a lot of talent? He went 7-6 in his first year at Bama. Why? Because he didn't have 4-5 stars at every position like he does now. One guy can take over a hoops game and make a coach look good. That rarely happens in football. That's why hoops is much more on an even playing field in my opinion. It's a numbers game. Well, unless you're Ky and you're basically a semi-pro team.

I think the jury is still out on Tyndall and Jones. I'll judge Jones more in the next 2 years when it's more his team. He played a ton of freshmen this year while the Bama's, LSU's and the like could redshirt their freshmen because they were stockpiled with talent. Based on the early showings, I hope Tyndall can stick around to show us that he is a good coach if the NCAA doesn't hammer him.
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Right on OB.
 
#155
#155
Unimane said:
Tyndall wasn't his first choice and he screwed up the deal with White, scrambling to get Tyndall. So, like I said, Tyndall appears to be a good coach, but he wasn't anywhere near the top choice for Hart.
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Greg Marshall was the top choice and he wanted no part of the drama that was going on around here. Mike White and Tyndall were pretty much 2a and 2b...apparently 2a thought he was worth a couple of more years of contract security than our AD thought he was worth.

Anywho, if we beat NC ST this week maybe you'll be a little more charitable wrt "the [screwed up] deal with White."
 
#156
#156
therealitytheory said:
[/B]

Greg Marshall was the top choice and he wanted no part of the drama that was going on around here. Mike White and Tyndall were pretty much 2a and 2b...apparently 2a thought he was worth a couple of more years of contract security than our AD thought he was worth.

Anywho, if we beat NC ST this week maybe you'll be a little more charitable wrt "the [screwed up] deal with White."
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Charitable with what? I said I like Tyndall, so winning won't change that fact, just reinforce it. It also won't change the fact that Hart lucked into Tyndall after going through a series of other coaches.
 
#157
#157
Unimane said:
It also won't change the fact that Hart lucked into Tyndall after going through a series of other coaches.
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"Lucked" into Tyndall after "screwing up" the White deal.
Your words.

All I said was you had little respect for Hart...you're not really arguing that point, are you?
 
#158
#158
OrangeBalls said:
Do you think Nick Saban is a great coach? Most reasonable people do. However, how good is he when he doesn't have a lot of talent? He went 7-6 in his first year at Bama. Why? Because he didn't have 4-5 stars at every position like he does now. One guy can take over a hoops game and make a coach look good. That rarely happens in football. That's why hoops is much more on an even playing field in my opinion. It's a numbers game. Well, unless you're Ky and you're basically a semi-pro team.

I think the jury is still out on Tyndall and Jones. I'll judge Jones more in the next 2 years when it's more his team. He played a ton of freshmen this year while the Bama's, LSU's and the like could redshirt their freshmen because they were stockpiled with talent. Based on the early showings, I hope Tyndall can stick around to show us that he is a good coach if the NCAA doesn't hammer him.
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You are missing the point that Saban going 7-6 wasn't the point, it's how he was able to maximize the amount of talent he had on hand to get them to a higher level, including a waxing of the SEC East "champion" Vols. I know the Saban example is trotted out every time someone dares to criticize Jones, but the Saban team clearly was a well coached team with talent limitations. He certainly had a better second year than Jones.

As for Tyndall, again, the eye test is right there in terms of how he organizes his team, play calling, offensive rhythm, having his team ready to play, etc., etc. Anyone who watches them and understands a tiny bit about basketball can see a well coached team versus one that isn't. He's clearly a good coach and this isn't the first time I've seen it from him and not just this year at UT. My only concern is recruiting. We'll see how that works out.
 
#160
#160
k-town_king said:
vols 30 said:
What is so funny? The comparisons are dumb. We are scoring less and haven't won anymore than Martin did his first year with more returning talent and production tham Martin had. No way we can say for sure who is better at this point.
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Returning talent? What returning talent other than one guy that can play ball. Martin had a few players to work with...
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#161
#161
At the end of the game jr had a turnover before one of the timeouts and as he walked over to the bench dt never said a word but gave him a look. I laughed cause I know that look and remember it well. But he never said anything to jr cuz jr new what he did. Dt is a players coach.
 
#162
#162
Unimane said:
The folks on the football board won't like this, but Tyndall is an example of what I've been trying to say about Jones. Even if you have a talent deficient team, a good coach will still shine through and demonstrate his quality by the play of his team. We won't be much above .500, if at all, in hoops, but we seem to look like we are well coached and that goes a long way to earning some amount of credibility as you build "brick by brick".

I was pretty undecided about Tyndall and still think Hart botched the search, but he may have backed into a very good coach. It remains to be seen how well he can recruit, but I am pleasantly surprised by what I have seen from Tyndall, thus far. He has a solid offense, produces good effort from his players, manages the game well from the sidelines and can make effective adjustments during the game.
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If Hart botches coaching searches, what do you call the coaching carousel this season? Hart has looked the best so far.
 
#163
#163
Unimane said:
Tyndall wasn't his first choice and he screwed up the deal with White, scrambling to get Tyndall. So, like I said, Tyndall appears to be a good coach, but he wasn't anywhere near the top choice for Hart.
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Yep, that's why White turned down $1.6 mill a year to coach at Tennessee to keep his 660k a year at Louisiana Tech. Give me a break!
 
#164
#164
SeniorDrill said:
Yep, that's why White turned down $1.6 mill a year to coach at Tennessee to keep his 660k a year at Louisiana Tech. Give me a break!
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He didn't like some of the details of that deal and the two sides could never get together on the same page. White will get his shot soon enough.
 
#165
#165
vol445 said:
At the end of the game jr had a turnover before one of the timeouts and as he walked over to the bench dt never said a word but gave him a look. I laughed cause I know that look and remember it well. But he never said anything to jr cuz jr new what he did. Dt is a players coach.
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Josh had no turnovers on his stat line so it musta been something else.

20 pts, 6 steals, and no TOs as a 6'6" freaking point guard...just wow.
 
#168
#168
Unimane said:
You are missing the point that Saban going 7-6 wasn't the point, it's how he was able to maximize the amount of talent he had on hand to get them to a higher level, including a waxing of the SEC East "champion" Vols. I know the Saban example is trotted out every time someone dares to criticize Jones, but the Saban team clearly was a well coached team with talent limitations. He certainly had a better second year than Jones.

As for Tyndall, again, the eye test is right there in terms of how he organizes his team, play calling, offensive rhythm, having his team ready to play, etc., etc. Anyone who watches them and understands a tiny bit about basketball can see a well coached team versus one that isn't. He's clearly a good coach and this isn't the first time I've seen it from him and not just this year at UT. My only concern is recruiting. We'll see how that works out.
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And you don't think Jones has maximized the talent? Hell, he beat a top ten team in So Car last year with limited talent. I'd say that's maximizing some talent. He then beat them again this year. You can't tell me that UT has better talent right now across the board than they do. The only game I thought we should've won was this year against Fla. Last year is debatable, but UT still didn't have the talent Fla has on its roster.

And let's be honest here. Jones walked into a sh*t storm. Shula didn't exactly leave the cupboard bare for Saban. He had something to work with. Hell, Shula is a definite upgrade over anything that Dooley could ever accomplish.

I never said that Tyndall isn't getting the maximum out of his talent, but let's pump the breaks. He has won one game against a ranked team and lost to VCU, Kansas and Marquette. Not horrible losses, but still losses to teams with more talent. Just like Jones has lost to most teams with more talent.
 
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#169
#169
driscokid said:
k-town_king said:
Returning talent? What returning talent other than one guy that can play ball. Martin had a few players to work with...
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J Rich better than anyone on the 11-12 team. Hubbs was ranked higher and had a better year than McRae. The rest of the rosters the numbers were pretty even. CDT inherited a starter who is our best player. Martin inherited Tatum who never really panned out. The other players on both teams had no one returning who averaged more than 3 pts. Very similar except for CDT inheriting an All SEC type player.
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#170
#170
OrangeBalls said:
And you don't think Jones has maximized the talent? Hell, he beat a top ten team in So Car last year with limited talent. I'd say that's maximizing some talent. He then beat them again this year. You can't tell me that UT has better talent right now across the board than they do. The only game I thought we should've won was this year against Fla. Last year is debatable, but UT still didn't have the talent Fla has on its roster.

And let's be honest here. Jones walked into a sh*t storm. Shula didn't exactly leave the cupboard bare for Saban. He had something to work with. Hell, Shula is a definite upgrade over anything that Dooley could ever accomplish.

I never said that Tyndall isn't getting the maximum out of his talent, but let's pump the breaks. He has won one game against a ranked team and lost to VCU, Kansas and Marquette. Not horrible losses, but still losses to teams with more talent. Just like Jones has lost to most teams with more talent.
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They can lose to teams with more talent, but do it in ways that demonstrate a well coached team. Yes, Butch was fortunate to get a win against S. Carolina last year, but that was the anomaly. He gets nothing better than the talent he has at his disposal. Things like some very basic issues with offensive lineman (No one can recognize a twist move in this offense?) are a big question mark in the staff. Tyndall, in those losses, particularly the Kansas one, looks the part of a well coached team. Jones and crew have a lot of moments of "What the hell are you doing?" Jones will rise or fall based upon the level of talent he brings to Knoxville, no more or less. Tyndall, on the other hand, appears to me to be a pain in the ass for any coach to handle with any kind of hand he's dealt.
 
#171
#171
Unimane said:
They can lose to teams with more talent, but do it in ways that demonstrate a well coached team. Yes, Butch was fortunate to get a win against S. Carolina last year, but that was the anomaly. He gets nothing better than the talent he has at his disposal. Things like some very basic issues with offensive lineman (No one can recognize a twist move in this offense?) are a big question mark in the staff. Tyndall, in those losses, particularly the Kansas one, looks the part of a well coached team. Jones and crew have a lot of moments of "What the hell are you doing?" Jones will rise or fall based upon the level of talent he brings to Knoxville, no more or less. Tyndall, on the other hand, appears to me to be a pain in the ass for any coach to handle with any kind of hand he's dealt.
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And you don't think having to replace every single starter on the offensive line (because dumbass Dooley went an entire recruiting class without signing 1 single O-lineman) this year had something to do with that? Really? Did you even know that there was not one true tackle in the starting 5 this year? That is how bad Dooley left the cupboard.

Again, I'm going to wait some more before I completely judge Jones. He's got a pocket knife in a gunfight right now with the rest of the SEC. If he keep recruiting like he has, he should be able to get to 8 wins every year by rolling out of bed.
 
#172
#172
Unimane said:
They can lose to teams with more talent, but do it in ways that demonstrate a well coached team. Yes, Butch was fortunate to get a win against S. Carolina last year, but that was the anomaly. He gets nothing better than the talent he has at his disposal. Things like some very basic issues with offensive lineman (No one can recognize a twist move in this offense?) are a big question mark in the staff. Tyndall, in those losses, particularly the Kansas one, looks the part of a well coached team. Jones and crew have a lot of moments of "What the hell are you doing?" Jones will rise or fall based upon the level of talent he brings to Knoxville, no more or less. Tyndall, on the other hand, appears to me to be a pain in the ass for any coach to handle with any kind of hand he's dealt.
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nice assessment
Jones will not able win with talent alone in the SEC. He blows.
 
#173
#173
OrangeBalls said:
And you don't think having to replace every single starter on the offensive line (because dumbass Dooley went an entire recruiting class without signing 1 single O-lineman) this year had something to do with that? Really? Did you even know that there was not one true tackle in the starting 5 this year? That is how bad Dooley left the cupboard.

Again, I'm going to wait some more before I completely judge Jones. He's got a pocket knife in a gunfight right now with the rest of the SEC. If he keep recruiting like he has, he should be able to get to 8 wins every year by rolling out of bed.
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You sound like Jones. Excuses are for dumbf---------.
What about the utter waste of last year's OL? 2 NFL starters,backup and one on IR and will return next season.
 
#174
#174
docholiday said:
You sound like Jones. Excuses are for dumbf---------.
What about the utter waste of last year's OL? 2 NFL starters,backup and one on IR and will return next season.
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I guess you failed to see who the hell was running the ball, throwing the ball and catching the ball. We had one skill player that could make plays in North. One. And he was a converted QB/RB from high school. I guess seeing the obvious is too much for some dumb*****s.
 
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