We can sign more than 30 according to Hyams

[Give Him 6]

The way I see it is you get 25 a year but can back count your EE's. Our class was 23 last year (in my view Jabo counts). We had 5 EE, so the true class size was 18. So, this year we can back count 7 EE's. 25 plus 7 is 32. That's how I got my number. Butch said 30 though.

We only had 21 last year. That's with Jabo Lee.

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

If a "loophole" allows them to sign a couple more, I would rather see that than cutting loose long time commitments.

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

My question is, are we able to back count all 5 of our 2013 EE's?

It was my understanding we could only back count 4.
I thought only 4 from 2013 were eligible for the spring practice.. thus only giving us 4 that can even possibly be back counted.
I am pretty sure only 4 of the 5.
I could be wrong in the end it doesn't matter.
If we want we can over sign.
GBO

 

[TrésDay]

If a "loophole" allows them to sign a couple more, I would rather see that than cutting loose long time commitments.

Out of curiosity, could you explain why? When discussing the potential parting of ways with current commitments, you seemed very pro-family, saying you viewed them as part of the fold. Do the players who are already VFL not count in this?

 

[ChattaTNVol]

We only had 21 last year. That's with Jabo Lee.

1 A.J. Branisel
2 Malik Brown
3 Jason Carr
4 Joshua Dobbs
5 Riley Ferguson
6 Malik Foreman
7 Paul Harris
8 Ryan Jenkins
9 Lemond Johnson
10 Riyahd Jones
11 Brett Kendrick
12 Jabo Lee
13 Jaylen Miller
14 Marquez North
15 Woody Quinn
16 Jalen Reeves-Maybin
17 Austin Sanders
18 Josh Smith
19 Cameron Sutton
20 Corey Vereen
21 Kendal Vickers
22 Dylan Wiesman

I count 22 and that's without Johnathon Johnson.

 

[callmecrockett]

I can't math.

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

Out of curiosity, could you explain why? When discussing the potential parting of ways with current commitments, you seemed very pro-family, saying you viewed them as part of the fold. Do the players who are already VFL not count in this?

I figured the Dallas/Posey situation is what they are talking about. Kids who choose to go elsewhere. Kids don't always do what they are supposed to do. I would guess those are the "open spots" that would be available. Much the same way with current commitments, if they mess up or don't get the grades, I would expect their spots to be open.

Dropping kids who are doing the right thing for a higher rated kid, be it recruit or current UT player, I would be against.

 

[BigOrangeD]

I figured the Dallas/Posey situation is what they are talking about. Kids who choose to go elsewhere. Kids don't always do what they are supposed to do. I would guess those are the "open spots" that would be available. Much the same way with current commitments, if they mess up or don't get the grades, I would expect their spots to be open.

Dropping kids who are doing the right thing for a higher rated kid, be it recruit or current UT player, I would be against.

Yes. More will not come back due to grades, etc. Tiny will more than likely leave early for the pros.

Also, if a guy is not cutting it on the field, they will just take away his tutor.

 

[Crookruss]

Yes. More will not come back due to grades, etc. Tiny will more than likely leave early for the pros.

Also, if a guy is not cutting it on the field, they will just take away his tutor.

And take an APR hit? No chance

 

[BigOrangeD]

And take an APR hit? No chance

Good point. Keep the tutor.:good!:

 

[ChattaTNVol]

I figured the Dallas/Posey situation is what they are talking about. Kids who choose to go elsewhere. Kids don't always do what they are supposed to do. I would guess those are the "open spots" that would be available. Much the same way with current commitments, if they mess up or don't get the grades, I would expect their spots to be open.

Dropping kids who are doing the right thing for a higher rated kid, be it recruit or current UT player, I would be against.

There's a distinct difference between the 25 signing limit and the roster limit of 85. 25*4=100 so some attrition is accounted for in the signing limit. Posey & Dallas help us with the 85 but unless a player has been a walkon for 2 years every one of them has to be an initial counter in some class. Once signed always signed; Once an initial counter always an initial counter. My understanding is that attrition has no direct bearing on the 25 only on the 85.

 

[sanddune50]

1 A.J. Branisel
2 Malik Brown
3 Jason Carr
4 Joshua Dobbs
5 Riley Ferguson
6 Malik Foreman
7 Paul Harris
8 Ryan Jenkins
9 Lemond Johnson
10 Riyahd Jones
11 Brett Kendrick
12 Jabo Lee
13 Jaylen Miller
14 Marquez North
15 Woody Quinn
16 Jalen Reeves-Maybin
17 Austin Sanders
18 Josh Smith
19 Cameron Sutton
20 Corey Vereen
21 Kendal Vickers
22 Dylan Wiesman

I count 22 and that's without Johnathon Johnson.

I think this is right with Johnson making it 23.

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

I think this is right with Johnson making it 23.

So, with 23, and back counting the 4 that were in spring game.. That leaves us with 2013 class of 19 .
25 base for last year - 19 actual = 6
That means we can back count 6 of our 7 or 8 EE from this year to last year.
25 base from this year + 6 = 31 ...
With little to no attrition we can only sign 18 to 20 for 2015.
So, we can oversign this year... take the hit to the 25 limit next year .... and wala ...
The numbers work, we signed 30 plus the extra.
No one is asked to grey, or leave, and Butch gets it.
Everyone wins ...
GBO

 

[BJWeeks]

So, with 23, and back counting the 4 that were in spring game.. That leaves us with 2013 class of 19 .
25 base for last year - 19 actual = 6
That means we can back count 6 of our 7 or 8 EE from this year to last year.
25 base from this year + 6 = 31 ...
With little to no attrition we can only sign 18 to 20 for 2015.
So, we can oversign this year... take the hit to the 25 limit next year .... and wala ...
The numbers work, we signed 30 plus the extra.
No one is asked to grey, or leave, and Butch gets it.
Everyone wins ...
GBO

we had 5 early enrollments

 

[MOOOOONEY]

The way I have it counted we have 80 players on scholarship.

21 Seniors

1 or 2 Juniors who may leave early.

if my calculation is correct 80-21-1=58

85-58=27

I think at least 1 of Tiny or AJ leaves early.

We will have 27 spots open on the Roster with 31 commitments and probably looking at least 3 more commits, then we would be 7 over, so assuming if we can sign 34 then 7 or more on the current roster will be gone.

All this is assumptions with what EA and Hyams are saying about the numbers.

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

we had 5 early enrollments

You are correct sir... we had 5 EE...
We cannot back count all of them.
We would only back count 4 to fill the 2012 class from 21 to 25.
You back count the ones that were playing in the spring game.
One was not able to play due to injury I think... Jones had a shoulder injury.
That is only relevant for red shirting and transferring rules.
We can only back count the 4 because we had 21 in the previous class.
2011 we had 3 EE, and 26 recruits ... only 1 was able to back count. No slots left.
2012 we had 21, and 4 slots left.
2013 we had 23, and 4 of the 5 EE back count to 2012. (19 total, 6 slots left)
2014 we have 6 EE back counting to 2013, and 25 for 2014 = 31 total

In all honesty, I have not done the digging and math on the 85 limit.
I was speculating around 18 to 20, with all the Jr returning .. even Tiny.
Who knows with that, its hard to track that as its all best guess.
the other poster seems to have done some math on it and comes up with 27 slots with Jrs leaving and various attrition. I tend to think they would rather go out on a high note than leave after this year. It is also in our best interest, and looks better on the coaches to not cut players this year. Limit the numbers next year, and lock down accepting offers till later in the year for 2015.
Only take 20 or so and make them beasts.
That's just my best guess ... I truely think we over sign this year.
GBO

 

[TylerTheVol]

Not sure if this has already been discussed, but does Jabo Lee count on last year's signing class? He never stepped foot on campus, so I wasn't sure if his "spot" actually counted since he is at Temple. If not, then wouldn't that give us another spot to use this year?

 

[PassedOutAwake]

Not sure if this has already been discussed, but does Jabo Lee count on last year's signing class? He never stepped foot on campus, so I wasn't sure if his "spot" actually counted since he is at Temple. If not, then wouldn't that give us another spot to use this year?

the new rule passed last year (i think last year) is that if you sign an NLI, you count towards the numbers, whether or not you actually enroll

 

[Dust10]

You are correct sir... we had 5 EE...
We cannot back count all of them.
We would only back count 4 to fill the 2012 class from 21 to 25.
You back count the ones that were playing in the spring game.
One was not able to play due to injury I think... Jones had a shoulder injury.
That is only relevant for red shirting and transferring rules.
We can only back count the 4 because we had 21 in the previous class.
2011 we had 3 EE, and 26 recruits ... only 1 was able to back count. No slots left.
2012 we had 21, and 4 slots left.
2013 we had 23, and 4 of the 5 EE back count to 2012. (19 total, 6 slots left)
2014 we have 6 EE back counting to 2013, and 25 for 2014 = 31 total

In all honesty, I have not done the digging and math on the 85 limit.
I was speculating around 18 to 20, with all the Jr returning .. even Tiny.
Who knows with that, its hard to track that as its all best guess.
the other poster seems to have done some math on it and comes up with 27 slots with Jrs leaving and various attrition. I tend to think they would rather go out on a high note than leave after this year. It is also in our best interest, and looks better on the coaches to not cut players this year. Limit the numbers next year, and lock down accepting offers till later in the year for 2015.
Only take 20 or so and make them beasts.
That's just my best guess ... I truely think we over sign this year.
GBO

I was with you till you mentioned over signing. No way we do that. One thing I can guarantee is that Tennessee lawyers have talked to NCAA lawyers to hammer out the exact number we can legally sign. The NCAA won't be blindsided by the number we ultimately sign.

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

I was with you till you mentioned over signing. No way we do that. One thing I can guarantee is that Tennessee lawyers have talked to NCAA lawyers to hammer out the exact number we can legally sign. The NCAA won't be blindsided by the number we ultimately sign.

Lulz.. I do not think they would be blindsided...
The 25 limit is an SEC rule... others can still sign 28.
Most just follow the 4yr 100 rule... The last 3 years total signed subtracted from 100 = your class size for this year.
Butch followed that to get the 30 number BTW.
The only rule that matters to the NCAA is the 85 limit.
As for the SEC rule, it is a gentleman agreement between SEC and NCAA.
That agreement is "if" an SEC team oversigns the 25 limit, they "must" drop 2 or 3 from the next years class of 25, or be hit with NCAA recruiting violations.
I honestly caant remember at the moment if it is 2 or 3, but think it is 2.
It is not an NCAA violation in and of itself to oversign the 25 limit.
I also think it would play to the superstar kids.
Tell them not only do you have a place here this year, but you are worth 2 players next year. That's the kind of thing recruits love to hear.
It will work out, I am not worried.
We can always preferred walk on a few players, get them in class, and have them wait to enroll in the summer. Then wait them over and give them a scholarship from next years class. There are so very many ways to make the numbers work...
It is just a matter of which combination is best for us and the recruits.

 

[Dust10]

Lulz.. I do not think they would be blindsided...
The 25 limit is an SEC rule... others can still sign 28.
Most just follow the 4yr 100 rule... The last 3 years total signed subtracted from 100 = your class size for this year.
Butch followed that to get the 30 number BTW.
The only rule that matters to the NCAA is the 85 limit.
As for the SEC rule, it is a gentleman agreement between SEC and NCAA.
That agreement is "if" an SEC team oversigns the 25 limit, they "must" drop 2 or 3 from the next years class of 25, or be hit with NCAA recruiting violations.
I honestly caant remember at the moment if it is 2 or 3, but think it is 2.
It is not an NCAA violation in and of itself to oversign the 25 limit.
I also think it would play to the superstar kids.
Tell them not only do you have a place here this year, but you are worth 2 players next year. That's the kind of thing recruits love to hear.
It will work out, I am not worried.
We can always preferred walk on a few players, get them in class, and have them wait to enroll in the summer. Then wait them over and give them a scholarship from next years class. There are so very many ways to make the numbers work...
It is just a matter of which combination is best for us and the recruits.

You don't need to explain any rules to me bro...

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

You don't need to explain any rules to me bro...

10/4 .. much respect.
I have had to draw it in crayon with some friends... It gets to be habbit.
GO VOLS

 

[Dust10]

10/4 .. much respect.
I have had to draw it in crayon with some friends... It gets to be habbit.
GO VOLS

Sorry dude, didn't mean to sound like a jerk. Just didn't want you to feel the need to type all that out. I liked how you got your 31 number. I was skeptical we would be able to back count all 5 of the last EEs. I was thinking we would be able to back count 3.

 

[VolenteerSpirit]

My question is ... when we get to a bowl game, can our EEs that have signed their paperwork practice..... ?
I seem to recall that happening before somewhere.
They had an early grad EE practicing with the team during bowl prep.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

From the NCAA Manual (attached)

13.9.2.3
Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl
Subdivision Football.
In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of
prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid
from December 1 through May 31.
[D]
(Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12)
13.9.2.3.1
Exception—Counter During Same Academic Year. [FBS]
A prospective student-athlete
who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and becomes an initial counter
for the same academic year in which the signing occurred (e.g., midyear enrollee) shall not count toward the
annual limit on signings.
(Adopted: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12)

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools.../2012-13/misc_non_event/12-13-ncaa-manual.pdf