Was the Lane Train REALLY on track?

#76
#76
I have followed the Vols for the past 40 yrs, I am 48 now. The team last year was the best team I can remember ever when you combine injuries, lack of depth and talent. The team last year did not accomplish the W's of some teams past but, I have never seen a Vol team with more fight on both sides of the ball when under manned then the team last year. That credit goes to the coaches, bash LK all you want haters. The fact of the matter is in 1 year LK had the attention of the best programs in the SEC. Something Fulmer had lost after the 98 season, which is about the same time the schools in the SEC upgraded their coaching staffs.
 
#77
#77
Going into the The Swamp for the 1st time against Meyer who wanted to devastate and destroy the Vols without flinching and playing so well the Gators were silenced and felt they lost the game says much about CLK. I'm no longer a fan of his, however he and his staff could coach. Fulmer was just not competitive against Meyer or Saban and he HAD to go.
 
#78
#78
So we completely fell off immediately after winning it all in 98? Fulmer's teams remained competitive for a long time. Did he win enough? Obviously not. Otherwise, he'd still be head coach. I thought the program was heading in the right direction, but there's no way to know for sure that Kiffin was any better at this point because the coaching staff isn't the only variable in this equation. The players themselves are variables. For all we know, we could have had the same results with any coaches. The results that we saw on the field could have been due as much to the maturation of the players as it was to the coaching. I don't know, so I won't pretend to know. As I said, I thought the program was heading in the right direction, but Notre Dame fans thought they were heading in the right direction after Charlie Weis's first season, too. Miami fans were happy with Larry Coker's first season. You don't know what you really have in a coach after only one year. It's time to stop talking about our former coaches, anyway. Fulmer's gone. Kiffin's gone. Dooley's here.
 
#79
#79
utgibbs said:
History suggests Fulmer would have beaten Bama this year. Just saying. I think Kiffin could have - if he were a better coach. I begin to wonder if the personal pedestal Kiffin's on is one of the reason Tim Priest knew Lincoln was hurt, but the HC didn't......

I think Fulmer's crew brought in Eric Berry and more talent than even Pete Carroll has had at USC. We may lament he did less with more (and I have lamented that too), but if you don't see Fulmer bringing in talent, well, you missed most of the last 17 years, son.
Click to expand...

hell to the no on the bama statement first of all...

secondly, eric berry's father played rb at ut...although eric didn't commit until mid december of '06 i doubt anyone would consider signing a kid of a former player hard to do :)

No one, in my mind, has made a sufficiently compelling argument to suggest Kiffin was an upgrade to Fulmer-Lite, much less Fulmer 92-2001.
Click to expand...

that's a 7 year gap between '01 and the time he was let go :ermm:

i don't know whether kiffin would've gotten us back on track or not, just like u don't "know" that fulmer could've done it either...but i would've definitely taken kiffin over fulmer at the time...there are many reasons i feel that way and i will not go into right now bc they're BOTH gone now...

time to concentrate on CDD, amongst all our whining and crying he has salvaged a recruiting class that somehow and someway may even get into the top 5...forget that prick kiffin :rock:
 
#80
#80
weiss and coker couldn't recruit or were to lazy to do so. X could recruit. His whole damn staff could recruit and they fielded the best coached te we have seen here. Fulmer was in charge the whole time the talent dropped. He was never a great game coach. He won because he was the best damn recruiter around. Without superior talent he couldn't win. If you can't see that last years staff was on par with fulmer at his best in recruiting and light years ahead in coaching then you weren't watching or don't know much about football. Not trying to
be hurtful, just being bluntly honest.

QUOTE=SmilezDavis;3298744]So we completely fell off immediately after winning it all in 98? Fulmer's teams remained competitive for a long time. Did he win enough? Obviously not. Otherwise, he'd still be head coach. I thought the program was heading in the right direction, but there's no way to know for sure that Kiffin was any better at this point because the coaching staff isn't the only variable in this equation. The players themselves are variables. For all we know, we could have had the same results with any coaches. The results that we saw on the field could have been due as much to the maturation of the players as it was to the coaching. I don't know, so I won't pretend to know. As I said, I thought the program was heading in the right direction, but Notre Dame fans thought they were heading in the right direction after Charlie Weis's first season, too. Miami fans were happy with Larry Coker's first season. You don't know what you really have in a coach after only one year. It's time to stop talking about our former coaches, anyway. Fulmer's gone. Kiffin's gone. Dooley's here.[/QUOTE]
 
#81
#81
utgibbs said:
He'd seen the kicker miss two before (one blocked) during the game. He had a minute left to make it a 30 yard kick. Tim Priest knew Lincoln was hurt pre-game (but Kiffin didn't). Everyone I was sitting wanted him to go end zone after the Stocker reception because we knew Bama was on the ropes, but the kicker wasn't going to make more than a 35-yarder.

Kiffin made excuses after the game, why he didn't know about Lincoln, but I think his mind was on something more important - himself.

Fulmer had a fantastic record against Alabama. So, history would suggest Fulmer was due against Bama this year. Just sayin'.

Kiffin wasn't an upgrade on Fulmer-Declining.
Click to expand...


Overall, I love Fulmer. If I had a kid old enough, I know he would've been in good hands with Phil. However, Fulmer loses this year @ UF by 28 and @Bama by 17. Too conservative, too stubborn. There is no way the things you say happpen.
 
#83
#83
I defer to the players themselves and what they said about Kiffin:

*They were coached on the practice field
*The practices were intense and at game speed
*Grades improved almost immediately
*Hardesty 1300 yards with well coached line

What I saw:

Team played hard. They gave the Gators and Tide a game while out-manned. Bama got inside the 10 one time. Georgia not past the 30.
I was very impressed at the effort of the players.
I loved the way players stepped up when we had an injury.

Subsequently I saw little effort from the 2008 team. Once it started going south we hung our heads. Our teams were not prepared. Clawson (IMO) would not have saved Crompton because of Fulmer's meddling. As the league got more intense, Fulmer could not keep up. His staff could not coach up players. I don't see how anyone can look at Fulmer's record sans Cutcliffe and say he would have improved 2009 vs. 2008.
 
#84
#84
William Munney said:
I defer to the players themselves and what they said about Kiffin:

*They were coached on the practice field
*The practices were intense and at game speed
*Grades improved almost immediately
*Hardesty 1300 yards with well coached line

What I saw:

Team played hard. They gave the Gators and Tide a game while out-manned. Bama got inside the 10 one time. Georgia not past the 30.
I was very impressed at the effort of the players.
I loved the way players stepped up when we had an injury.

Subsequently I saw little effort from the 2008 team. Once it started going south we hung our heads. Our teams were not prepared. Clawson (IMO) would not have saved Crompton because of Fulmer's meddling. As the league got more intense, Fulmer could not keep up. His staff could not coach up players. I don't see how anyone can look at Fulmer's record sans Cutcliffe and say he would have improved 2009 vs. 2008.
Click to expand...

We've seen all that from Fulmer coached teams and more. I am just not seeing the upgrade. It's obvious at the end of the Texan's season that maybe it was hard to choose between Montario and Foster.

Hammy is partly responsible for the 2008 season. Wyoming was the week Fulmer was fired. None of you could say you wouldn't be affected by the chain of events in the same situation.

However, I haven't heard about immediate grade improvements. Where's the data on that? That would be second positive from the LK's tenure.
 
#85
#85
zjcvols said:
I totally lost all respect when you said Fulmer would have done as good of a job. I don't see Fulmer bringing in Bryce Brown & Janzen Jackson, a crappy kicker away from beating Bama, and a 7-6 record with two walk-on O-Lineman.
Click to expand...

dont you just love when people say fulmer would of done just as good last year..but what people arent seeing is he went 5-7 with the same team as kiffin had and he went 7-6 with a bowl... some people just amaze me!
 
#86
#86
We fired Johnny Majors at 8-3, and PF, produced two Volunteer teams his last 3 years that were not even bowl eligible. PF and staff were given MORE than ample time to get it done. That he remained as long as he did putting a very low quality of football on the field his last few years, was out of respect for his previous successes. He's gone thank goodness, we've turned a page. Meyer would have hung 60 on us this year at The Swamp were PF and staff still there and we may not have even scored given the dismal offenses we had the past few years under PF and UF's #1 defense.
 
#87
#87
zjcvols said:
I totally lost all respect when you said Fulmer would have done as good of a job. I don't see Fulmer bringing in Bryce Brown & Janzen Jackson, a crappy kicker away from beating Bama, and a 7-6 record with two walk-on O-Lineman.
Click to expand...

*
 
#88
#88
utgibbs said:
We've seen all that from Fulmer coached teams and more. I am just not seeing the upgrade. It's obvious at the end of the Texan's season that maybe it was hard to choose between Montario and Foster.

Hammy is partly responsible for the 2008 season. Wyoming was the week Fulmer was fired. None of you could say you wouldn't be affected by the chain of events in the same situation.

However, I haven't heard about immediate grade improvements. Where's the data on that? That would be second positive from the LK's tenure.
Click to expand...

All you do is come up with excuses for Fulmer as to why he sucked. Give it a rest junior, Phil is gone. As far as you not hearing about the grade improvements in class, that is no surprise. It was spoke of numerous times but I suppose you were to busy trying to put a spin on things for your fallen hero Fulmer. Just so you know the best grade improvements in the past 20 years.

All thru this thread you have spouted excuses, if you have to try that hard perhaps your hero was not everything you had him cracked up to be.

As far as not seeing improvement from 08 to 09, you must have not watched the team play. This team had disclipine and heart, something Fulmers teams had not seen in 8 years. Don't forget the Gators in 08 saying the Vols were a bunch of quitters on the field. That was before your hero received his walking papers.
 
#89
#89
utgibbs said:
We've seen all that from Fulmer coached teams and more. I am just not seeing the upgrade. It's obvious at the end of the Texan's season that maybe it was hard to choose between Montario and Foster.
i'm not following your logic.

foster improving against better competition in the NFL implies that he benefitted from better coaching than what he was getting under CPF.

CPF et al had a full season to work with crompton as the starter, and he made no progress. the carpetbagger et al had crompton significantly improved in half a season. yet you say that if CPF and crew had only had another half season or so they could have worked the same miracle, or more?

i think we got an upgrade with CDD but we definitely got an upgrade when we went from CPF to the carpetbagger.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
#90
#90
anyone who paid attention to last year's team saw an improvement. starting from the Jan workouts. say what you will about the A-hole. that guy stepped up the discipline and training from the get go. they guy paid a great deal of attention to the details.

i think he enjoyed coaching the team, he may not have liked knoxville but you can't deny that he worked hard improving this team.

fulmer would not have gotten this team to a 7-6 season and we would have been looking for a new coach anyways, but we would have 2 losing seasons in a row.
 
#91
#91
tm3 said:
utgibbs said:
We've seen all that from Fulmer coached teams and more. I am just not seeing the upgrade. It's obvious at the end of the Texan's season that maybe it was hard to choose between Montario and Foster.
i'm not following your logic.

foster improving against better competition in the NFL implies that he benefitted from better coaching than what he was getting under CPF.

CPF et al had a full season to work with crompton as the starter, and he made no progress. the carpetbagger et al had crompton significantly improved in half a season. yet you say that if CPF and crew had only had another half season or so they could have worked the same miracle, or more?

i think we got an upgrade with CDD but we definitely got an upgrade when we went from CPF to the carpetbagger.
Click to expand...

agreed, if fulmer was here. crompton would have been benched and the rotating QB would again rise it's ugly head. hardest would have gotten twice the carries but i don't think our line under fulmer would have gotten him the yards.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
#92
#92
I think Rick Flair was a much better wrestler than Hulk Hogan.


What!? It's just as meaningful a debate as this thread.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#93
#93
William Munney said:
I defer to the players themselves and what they said about Kiffin:

*They were coached on the practice field
*The practices were intense and at game speed
*Grades improved almost immediately
*Hardesty 1300 yards with well coached line

What I saw:

Team played hard. They gave the Gators and Tide a game while out-manned. Bama got inside the 10 one time. Georgia not past the 30.
I was very impressed at the effort of the players.
I loved the way players stepped up when we had an injury.

Subsequently I saw little effort from the 2008 team. Once it started going south we hung our heads. Our teams were not prepared. Clawson (IMO) would not have saved Crompton because of Fulmer's meddling. As the league got more intense, Fulmer could not keep up. His staff could not coach up players. I don't see how anyone can look at Fulmer's record sans Cutcliffe and say he would have improved 2009 vs. 2008.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly!!! Fulmer was our coach and did many great things. However after the coaching upgrades in the conference in the early 2000's, he was clearly overmatched.

It showed itself in recruiting, on the field, in the classroom and on the police blotter. Sorry!!! Kiffins staff was a huge upgrade over OLd Fulmer...
 
#94
#94
aredfox28 said:
dont you just love when people say fulmer would of done just as good last year..but what people arent seeing is he went 5-7 with the same team as kiffin had and he went 7-6 with a bowl... some people just amaze me!
Click to expand...

I thought the Kiffin recruits were going to make this amazing immediate impact. (PS - I think they are great recruits, and I'm glad they are playing for TN, but even if we credit CLK for the whole 2009 class, TN is accustomed to those kind of classes under Fulmer)

Fulmer went 5-6 during a season he was fired. Part of the 5-6 and no bowl game is on Hammy for Wyoming Week.
 
#95
#95
utgibbs said:
I thought the Kiffin recruits were going to make this amazing immediate impact. (PS - I think they are great recruits, and I'm glad they are playing for TN, but even if we credit CLK for the whole 2009 class, TN is accustomed to those kind of classes under Fulmer)

Fulmer went 5-6 during a season he was fired. Part of the 5-6 and no bowl game is on Hammy for Wyoming Week.
Click to expand...

maybe we are use to getting classes like that,but we are also use to getting nothing outta them.they werent coached up..kiffin did do that,just look at crompton and the whole attitude of the team.less penalty's..etc.. and why is the 5-6 and no bowl part of hammy's fault? cause he was going to make a coaching change? you would think the players would wanna play harder and send fulmer out with wins,not losses. IMO.
 
#96
#96
utgibbs said:
I thought the Kiffin recruits were going to make this amazing immediate impact. (PS - I think they are great recruits, and I'm glad they are playing for TN, but even if we credit CLK for the whole 2009 class, TN is accustomed to those kind of classes under Fulmer)

Fulmer went 5-6 during a season he was fired. Part of the 5-6 and no bowl game is on Hammy for Wyoming Week.
Click to expand...

All you need to do is check out the Bama game from '08 and the Bama game from '09. If you can't see the difference, there's nothing in this world to help your lack of football IQ.
 
#97
#97
utgibbs said:
Fulmer went 5-6 during a season he was fired. Part of the 5-6 and no bowl game is on Hammy for Wyoming Week.
Click to expand...

BS. There is NEVER an excuse to lose to a team as pathetic as Wyoming in your own stadium.
 
#100
#100
utgibbs said:
However, I don't see compelling evidence, even before the evacuation, that Kiffin was an upgrade, much less a significant upgrade.
Click to expand...

These numbers are NCAA FBS statistical rankings.

Passing offense improved from 109 in '08 to 43 in '09.


Rushing offense improved from 93 in '08 to 52 in '09.


Total offense improved from 116 in '08 to 53 in '09.

Those numbers seem significant to me.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top