Was Majors done wrong?

#152
#152
livefaith said:
Another 20 years and it may be time to let this go. JK

There is no way to not do someone wrong who is a playing legend, as well as a coaching legend who is about to be put out to pasture for a young upstart replacement. There is just no way.
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Wasn't just Johnny iirc. Didn't they make playing at UT a family affair?? Had more to do with the last name than the first name or the ability to win.
 
#154
#154
VOLtaism said:
Johnny came back home after winning a national championship at another school. He was on top but came home when called. This was a a coaching change you dream about, not just your normal former player thing, a former player and from the favorite UT Majors family deciding to leave a loaded team to turn around his alma mater. He deserved more time to get a championship at UT. The fact they attacked him while having heart issues just complicates this fact. He said he deserved better and I believe him without knowing the details.
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15 years and a roughly .560 win% ??? That was a long leash even for the era.

Edit: Corrected my dyslexia on win%. .560's, not .650's.
 
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#155
#155
Volle said:
Johnny had won the SEC in '89 and '90 and broke the Bama streak in '92 putting the Bear into retirement. He had finally turned it around and was poised to win a NC with Bama trending down. He would have probably done better than Fulmer did against a rising Spurrier and Florida. Majors always hired great assistants and I'm sure he would have replaced Fulmer with a great OC.

The real tragedy to this was Woodruff not hiring Johnny out of Iowa St in 1970, instead of Battle. We were a national top-10 team in Dickie's years up to 1969, and Johnny would have kept that going, instead of what we saw with Battle running the program into the ground before Johnny got there. That was one of the worst decisions in UTAD history.

I used to go to Johnny's practices, and he as intense as hell, hands-on coach, and would get in players' faces. If he'd stayed at Pitt, he would've won 2-3 more championships.
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This is where I get derailed. Majors didn't break .600 (.560's) in win%. Battle was over .700. His 1st 4 years was considerably higher as he lost some traction the last 3. But, the record is the record. And he was way past Majors.
 
#156
#156
vol_smoothie said:
Yes, he was done wrong.
Fulmer should have remained a loyal assistant and helped ramp up recruiting to get Coach Majors his 2nd national title at his beloved alma mater.
Then let Fulmer take over.

Having said that, the first big blunder the University made was promoting Bill Battle after Doug Dickey left when they should have hired Johnny from Iowa State.
The Vols would have been right in the middle of the elite programs of the 70's, playing in major bowl games and competing for championships.
Dickey had built a formidable program and Coach Majors would have taken us over the top. What AD Bob Woodruff saw in Bill Battle, I will never understand.
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Win% in hindsight. Way higher than Majors. And not all that far below Dickey.
 
#157
#157
GVF said:
15 years and a roughly .650 win% ??? That was a long leash even for the era.
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If Johnny coached in the modern era, he would have been let go after the 1979 or 1980 season. Even though he was a native son. He didn't have a winning record in conference play until his 6th season (and even then it was just 3-2-1); I can't imagine anyone having that kind of patience today, even if the portal wasn't around.

Johnny was a great player and coach, but honestly, we as a fanbase overrate how good of a coach he was at Tennessee. If you look at his record there's a lot of "meh" with some good seasons sprinkled in.
 
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#159
#159
05_never_again said:
If Johnny coached in the modern era, he would have been let go after the 1979 or 1980 season. Even though he was a native son. He didn't have a winning record in conference play until his 6th season (and even then it was just 3-2-1); I can't imagine anyone having that kind of patience today, even if the portal wasn't around.

Johnny was a great player and coach, but honestly, we as a fanbase overrate how good of a coach he was at Tennessee. If you look at his record there's a lot of "meh" with some good seasons sprinkled in.
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Ditto. And I corrected my dyslesic numbers in that post. Majors was only in the .560's. 5th all time in UT coaches over 5 year tenure. Before CJH arrived. And behind the hated Battle by a long shot.
 
#160
#160
GVF said:
Any more wrong than say Richt for Kirby??

Majors was a legend for some reason, but if you strictly grade by W/L & Titles he was merely average even then. And he's what, 5th in win% among UT coaches over 5 year tenure. Bill Battle had a better win %. Not a hater at all, but he was never all that. He also coached in an era when a coach got a dozen years to prove he couldn't win big.

Now, did PF himself do Majors dirty. Many people think so, and are likley correct.
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“For some reason” he was the leader of the 1956 squad and should have won the Heisman trophy. And he coached Tennessee for nearly 2 decades, and while he didn’t win any national titles, he won quite a few SEC titles in his career. And Fulmer would not be the coach he was without Majors
 
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#161
#161
Savannahbayvol said:
Ever take a Management Course? What part of Chief Executive Officer(aka Head Coach) do you not understand. Johnny had the headset on and heard every play that was called in. Same as Fulmer when Sanders was the OC under him.
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The_Tennessean_1990_10_21_Page_133 - Copy.jpg
Yes, aka selective blame!

Fulmer's post-game response as to what happened 90 Bama to his offensive play calling basically "was to look at the film and get better"(attached). We would hear that again!

Give up here, you cannot convince me to throw Coach Majors under the bus! Not going to happen!

Also of note, the kicker was 2-4 in a three point game! Was the kicker on Coach Majors as well?
 
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#162
#162
GBO2011 said:
“For some reason” he was the leader of the 1956 squad and should have won the Heisman trophy. And he coached Tennessee for nearly 2 decades, and while he didn’t win any national titles, he won quite a few SEC titles in his career. And Fulmer would not be the coach he was without Majors
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Well. 3 in 15 years. And a .563 overall win %. 5th all time behind Neyland, Fulmer, Dickey AND Battle. Not legendary outside his playing days.
 
#164
#164
05_never_again said:
If Johnny coached in the modern era, he would have been let go after the 1979 or 1980 season. Even though he was a native son. He didn't have a winning record in conference play until his 6th season (and even then it was just 3-2-1); I can't imagine anyone having that kind of patience today, even if the portal wasn't around.

Johnny was a great player and coach, but honestly, we as a fanbase overrate how good of a coach he was at Tennessee. If you look at his record there's a lot of "meh" with some good seasons sprinkled in.
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Our program needed rebuilding and back in those days, UT would schedule all these crazy tough OOC teams

But Majors set UT on the modern path for success and got us out of the doldrums although he was inconsistent he still was a great HC.

His coaching tree of assistants was better than any coach we had not named Neyland and he knew how to change up what he liked to win and to recruit literally the most elite talent in the country.

He had great NC/SEC title caliber teams in 1983,1985,1987,1989,1990,1991 and 1992
He had good or above average teams in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984, 1986
He had bad teams in 1977, 1978, 1988

He had some of UT's greatest wins in the modern era, and some of our most heartbreaking losses

Not to mention he had some terrible terrible luck on some losses that weren't necessarily his fault, that would've changed entire seasons (UGA 80, USC 80, Ole Miss 83, Notre Dame 90, etc)

While it's true you can't compare to today's standards like you said, it's also not fair to compare to today's standard a coach who would've won or competed for 6 SEC titles in 8 years and would've made the playoffs 6 times being paid as the 6th or 7th highest paid HC in the conference because the President said they can't give professors extra raises
 
#165
#165
Rickyvol77 said:
Our program needed rebuilding and back in those days, UT would schedule all these crazy tough OOC teams

But Majors set UT on the modern path for success and got us out of the doldrums although he was inconsistent he still was a great HC.

His coaching tree of assistants was better than any coach we had not named Neyland and he knew how to change up what he liked to win and to recruit literally the most elite talent in the country.

He had great NC/SEC title caliber teams in 1983,1985,1987,1989,1990,1991 and 1992
He had good or above average teams in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984, 1986
He had bad teams in 1977, 1978, 1988

He had some of UT's greatest wins in the modern era, and some of our most heartbreaking losses

Not to mention he had some terrible terrible luck on some losses that weren't necessarily his fault, that would've changed entire seasons (UGA 80, USC 80, Ole Miss 83, Notre Dame 90, etc)

While it's true you can't compare to today's standards like you said, it's also not fair to compare to today's standard a coach who would've won or competed for 6 SEC titles in 8 years and would've made the playoffs 6 times being paid as the 6th or 7th highest paid HC in the conference because the President said they can't give professors extra raises
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He likely would have made the playoffs 4 times (1985, 1989, 1990, and 1991).

JM's problem in the modern era would have been that it just took way too long to get things going. He went below .500 in SEC play from 1977-84 (23-24-1), including 4 straight seasons where they went 3-3. It was before my time, but he probably was able to withstand the pressure, even by the standards of the day, was because he was a legendary player at UT. At some other big job that he didn't have personal ties to, he probably would have been fired much earlier in his tenure, even though he had previously won a natty at Pitt.

Even in the modern era, there wouldn't be all that much to quibble with from 1985-91 except for the 1988 season, and that would be forgiven after coming back strong in 1989.
 
#166
#166
05_never_again said:
He likely would have made the playoffs 4 times (1985, 1989, 1990, and 1991).

JM's problem in the modern era would have been that it just took way too long to get things going. He went below .500 in SEC play from 1977-84 (23-24-1), including 4 straight seasons where they went 3-3. It was before my time, but he probably was able to withstand the pressure, even by the standards of the day, was because he was a legendary player at UT. At some other big job that he didn't have personal ties to, he probably would have been fired much earlier in his tenure, even though he had previously won a natty at Pitt.

Even in the modern era, there wouldn't be all that much to quibble with from 1985-91 except for the 1988 season, and that would be forgiven after coming back strong in 1989.
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1987 would've made the playoffs as well

1988 was just a weird season and 1986 was a QB issue, but he had UT rolling after 1983 till he left otherwise

I agree with your premise about 1977-1984, but again it would've looked a lot different without UT also playing top ten teams in Notre Dame, Southern Cal, Pittsburgh, etc. which would've meant better bowls too
 
#167
#167
Volle said:
Johnny had won the SEC in '89 and '90 and broke the Bama streak in '92 putting the Bear into retirement. He had finally turned it around and was poised to win a NC with Bama trending down. He would have probably done better than Fulmer did against a rising Spurrier and Florida. Majors always hired great assistants and I'm sure he would have replaced Fulmer with a great OC.

The real tragedy to this was Woodruff not hiring Johnny out of Iowa St in 1970, instead of Battle. We were a national top-10 team in Dickie's years up to 1969, and Johnny would have kept that going, instead of what we saw with Battle running the program into the ground before Johnny got there. That was one of the worst decisions in UTAD history.

I used to go to Johnny's practices, and he as intense as hell, hands-on coach, and would get in players' faces. If he'd stayed at Pitt, he would've won 2-3 more championships.
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In 1989, Tennessee finished in a 3 way tie for the SEC Championship with Auburn and Alabama, but Alabama received the invitation to play in the Sugar Bowl.

Of course, you meant to say that Majors broke the Alabama streak in 1982 .... but Majors had lost 7 in a row to Alabama at the time he was fired and was just 4-12 overall vs Bama. Alabama was trending downward in 1982, but not in 1992. They won the National Championship in '92.

Finally, Tennessee's recruiting, clearly improved under Fulmer from 1993-1999.
 
#168
#168
Rickyvol77 said:
Our program needed rebuilding and back in those days, UT would schedule all these crazy tough OOC teams

But Majors set UT on the modern path for success and got us out of the doldrums although he was inconsistent he still was a great HC.

His coaching tree of assistants was better than any coach we had not named Neyland and he knew how to change up what he liked to win and to recruit literally the most elite talent in the country.

He had great NC/SEC title caliber teams in 1983,1985,1987,1989,1990,1991 and 1992
He had good or above average teams in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984, 1986
He had bad teams in 1977, 1978, 1988

He had some of UT's greatest wins in the modern era, and some of our most heartbreaking losses

Not to mention he had some terrible terrible luck on some losses that weren't necessarily his fault, that would've changed entire seasons (UGA 80, USC 80, Ole Miss 83, Notre Dame 90, etc)

While it's true you can't compare to today's standards like you said, it's also not fair to compare to today's standard a coach who would've won or competed for 6 SEC titles in 8 years and would've made the playoffs 6 times being paid as the 6th or 7th highest paid HC in the conference because the President said they can't give professors extra raises
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1986 was a bad team as well .... and to say the defense was disappointing that season would be an all time understatement.

In particular, Alabama ran the same play for most of their 56-28 victory in '86. It was a toss sweep to the right .... and it was good for at least 10 yards all darn day. We couldn't adjust to it.
 
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#169
#169
BowlBrother85 said:
1986 was a bad team as well .... and to say the defense was disappointing that season would be an all time understatement.

In particular, Alabama ran the same play for most of their 56-28 victory in '86. It was a toss sweep to the right .... and it was good for at least 10 yards all darn day. We couldn't adjust to it.
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I'm still mad at Randy Sanders for overthrowing a wide open GW TD vs Mississippi State
 
#170
#170
Rickyvol77 said:
1987 would've made the playoffs as well

1988 was just a weird season and 1986 was a QB issue, but he had UT rolling after 1983 till he left otherwise

I agree with your premise about 1977-1984, but again it would've looked a lot different without UT also playing top ten teams in Notre Dame, Southern Cal, Pittsburgh, etc. which would've meant better bowls too
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In 1987 they were 16th in the AP coming into the last week of the season. Neither of the 2 losses were to good teams, and they only defeated one ranked team (Iowa in the season opener).
 
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