Was Jackson's hit clean?

Did Janzen Jackson show all out effort to help win or did he make a "thuggish" play?

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#251
#251
TrueOrange said:
that's pretty much Pass Interference isn't it? Or am I misreading it and that's not hitting him before the ball gets there?
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No, pass interference would be hitting him before the ball gets there.

However, within this ****ty rule, there's selective enforcement. If a defensive player hit a receiver in the process of making a catch from behind, I bet the "defenseless receiver" penalty never gets called. Technically, the receiver cannot actively "defend himself" from the hit, but since he has his back turned to the defender, it isn't a "devastating hit" (it still isn't exactly clear to me what that term means) and is legal.

It appears to be unique for receivers going over the middle, especially when they leave their feet or fully extend their arms away from their body to make a catch.

It's an insane expectation of defensive players. When a WR extends his arms while going over the middle, the defensive player is apparently supposed to instantaneously recognize this, hold up, give him a chance to make the catch and defend himself, and then you can make the tackle.

I know this example if from the NFL and not college, but here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about: this is a devastating, yet clean hit delivered in the process of making a perfectly legitimate football play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwAhWlfF3NM
 
#253
#253
05_never_again said:
No, pass interference would be hitting him before the ball gets there.

However, within this ****ty rule, there's selective enforcement. If a defensive player hit a receiver in the process of making a catch from behind, I bet the "defenseless receiver" penalty never gets called. Technically, the receiver cannot actively "defend himself" from the hit, but since he has his back turned to the defender, it isn't a "devastating hit" (it still isn't exactly clear to me what that term means) and is legal.

It appears to be unique for receivers going over the middle, especially when they leave their feet or fully extend their arms away from their body to make a catch.

It's an insane expectation of defensive players. When a WR extends his arms while going over the middle, the defensive player is apparently supposed to instantaneously recognize this, hold up, give him a chance to make the catch and defend himself, and then you can make the tackle.

I know this example if from the NFL and not college, but here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about: this is a devastating, yet clean hit delivered in the process of making a perfectly legitimate football play.
YouTube - DeSean Jackson And Dunta Robinson injured
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That was one of the hits this season that led to the NFL's later further insistence and fines penalties for helmet to helmet hits deemed intentional, was it not?
 
#254
#254
05_never_again said:
No, pass interference would be hitting him before the ball gets there.

However, within this ****ty rule, there's selective enforcement. If a defensive player hit a receiver in the process of making a catch from behind, I bet the "defenseless receiver" penalty never gets called. Technically, the receiver cannot actively "defend himself" from the hit, but since he has his back turned to the defender, it isn't a "devastating hit" (it still isn't exactly clear to me what that term means) and is legal.

It appears to be unique for receivers going over the middle, especially when they leave their feet or fully extend their arms away from their body to make a catch.

It's an insane expectation of defensive players. When a WR extends his arms while going over the middle, the defensive player is apparently supposed to instantaneously recognize this, hold up, give him a chance to make the catch and defend himself, and then you can make the tackle.

I know this example if from the NFL and not college, but here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about: this is a devastating, yet clean hit delivered in the process of making a perfectly legitimate football play.
YouTube - DeSean Jackson And Dunta Robinson injured
Click to expand...

Sure he can. He can decide not to try and catch the ball because the hit might hurt. :p
 
#255
#255
TrueOrange said:
That was one of the hits this season that led to the NFL's later further insistence and fines penalties for helmet to helmet hits deemed intentional, was it not?
Click to expand...

Yes, it was, even though that hit isn't helmet-to-helmet at all. It's very clearly shoulder pad to chest. Of course, they also claimed that they are going to crack down on hits deemed to be "devastating."

This is a hit from the 2009 NFL season. Under the new rule, this hit should be illegal as well.
YouTube - Ed Reed decleated Knowshon Moreno BIG HIT FORCED FUMBLE
 
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#256
#256
TrueOrange said:
thank you i know that. so is helmet to helmet, late hit, roughing the passer, etc.

i'm asking you, please (said politely), to show me something that said that the personal foul called in this instance was specifically the "defenseless receiver" personal foul
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well it obviously wasn't helmet to helmet based on the fact that his shoulder pads hit first, therefore I am assuming that it was a defenseless receiver penalty because he actually was in violation of that rule. I didnt see a statement anywhere from the officials but just based on the fact that he committed one foul and not the other leads me to believe that that is why they called a personal foul penalty.
 
#258
#258
Everything I saw on all replays show a completely legal hit, even if it was bone crushing. He did launch himself at the receiver, but the shoulder pads definitely made the initial contact. The defenseless receiver condition normally only applies to a hit on a receiver that is fully extended on an attempt to catch the ball and is leveled after the catch is not made. I have never seen a receiver determined to be defenseless after he has actually caught the ball.
 
#259
#259
There are a lot of other media outlets and people saying we are becoming a very "dirty" team with a lot of unsportsmanlike plays...i.e. Bray's actions, Jackson's hits, etc. I love this team and everything about it, I just hope we don't turn into a Miami. I love the swagger and think we should play with it. I just hate to see other people say those kind of things.
 
#261
#261
OrangeVol79 said:
He hit with his shoulder- should have been legal
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Perfectly legal hit: shoulder-to shoulder. Not a head shot or lead with the helmet, & the rule book has NO reference to "launching"...the phrase used by the Big 10 zebra & ESPN hack announcers.
Will Kommisar Saliva make a statement about this, on the heels of Big 10 Cmmr. saying C. Newton shouldn't be eligible? Don't hold your breath, sports fans.
 
#265
#265
Everybody keeps saying this bs about a "defenseless player"...Since when does a receiver who just caught a pass become "defenseless????? Give Me A Break!!! There is NO rule about launching in the NCAA, he didn't make contact helmet-to-helmet, it wasn't a "late" hit, and it wasn't a DEFENSELESS PLAYER!!!! LEGAL HIT!!!...END OF STORY!!!!!
 
#266
#266
deaconkane said:
dont have to hit the head... defenseless player, launch. I knew soon as I saw it. Stupid hit...
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Again, the "launch" BS only comes into play if the defender launches himself at someone's head or launches leading with the crown of his helmet. Non-issue. How exactly is a WR holding a football a "defenseless" player?
 
#267
#267
TnScooby said:
Everybody keeps saying this bs about a "defenseless player"...Since when does a receiver who just caught a pass become "defenseless????? Give Me A Break!!! There is NO rule about launching in the NCAA, he didn't make contact helmet-to-helmet, it wasn't a "late" hit, and it wasn't a DEFENSELESS PLAYER!!!! LEGAL HIT!!!...END OF STORY!!!!!
Click to expand...

A receiver is defined as defenseless:

If he has relaxed when a pass was not caught.
He has relaxed after the ball has been whistled dead.
He is not participating in the play.
He is concentrating on catching the ball.

Only the last one would have a modicum of significance and since the guy appeared to have secured the ball when Janzen made contact, I'd say it's still not applicable.
 
#270
#270
Page 236 NCAA Rules

Receiver A83 has just leaped and received a forward pass. As A83 is about to regain his balance, B45 launches and drives into A83 above the shoulder area with his helmet or shoulder.
RULING: Foul by B45 for targeting and initiating contact with a defenseless opponent above the shoulders. Ejection for a flagrant
foul.
 
#271
#271
I don't know what you call a legal hit anymore, i doubt the kids playing do either. I guess they'll have to think right before they hit someone from now on , you know give the guy enough time to make the play and get the first down. Offense=ratings
 
#272
#272
spudvol said:
Page 236 NCAA Rules

Receiver A83 has just leaped and received a forward pass. As A83 is about to regain his balance, B45 launches and drives into A83 above the shoulder area with his helmet or shoulder.
RULING: Foul by B45 for targeting and initiating contact with a defenseless opponent above the shoulders. Ejection for a flagrant
foul.
Click to expand...

Ok, the only thing above the shoulder area would be the.....Head??...Didn't happen...Legal hit...
 
#273
#273
I don't know how the hit can be, in any way, perceived as "dirty" or "thuggish."

It's sad to see the direction that football is taking. At this rate, there'll never be another Steve Atwater or Jack Tatum.
 
#275
#275
On the catch, I had no problem with Jackson being called for a penalty but it wasn't a catch either. Half of the ball was touching the ground when the receiver landed plus he landed out of bounds.

On the last few seconds, this is just a dumb rule. The official should have stood over the ball with the clock running to allow us to sub when NC was trying to run the field goal team on. It doesn't make sense why there isn't a 10 second run off rule. What's the point in rushing to line up if the center and QB can just snap the ball with no else set.
 
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