War in Ukraine

And there you have it... Donald was offered some sort of financial deal to present a Russian "peace plan".

Trump really should just wear a "FOR SALE" badge at all times. Hey MAGA morons - when are you gonna figure out Donnie's using you?

Reuters:

Trump officials' meeting with Russian in Miami spurs questions about Ukraine proposal​


U.S. officials and lawmakers are increasingly concerned about a meeting last month in which representatives of the Trump administration met with Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian envoy who is under U.S. sanctions, to draft a plan to end the war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

The meeting took place in Miami at the end of October and included special envoy Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Dmitriev, who leads the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), one of Russia's largest sovereign wealth funds.

View attachment 791887

Monty moving to the top of the list for melt of the month.

when are you gonna figure out Donnie's using you?

The Ukraine lost, and there doesn't really exist a person on the planet to change that. They actually lost in 2022, meaning the likely paths to overcome this were very remote. They were simply pawns of the West that were sacrificed for the Gods. I would say the neocons and West were using the Ukraine, not sure what your comment even means. None of this really has much to do with Trump, but melt on.

gZz5cW.gif
 
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The 28 point plan:

1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.

2. A comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.

3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries and NATO will not expand further.

4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
  • Update: A separate document details the terms of the security guarantee. The U.S. and its NATO allies would treat an attack on Ukraine as an attack on the entire "transatlantic community."
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
  • Note: Ukraine's army currently has 800,000-850,000 personnel, and had around 250,000 beforethe war, according to a Ukrainian official.
7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
  • Note: NATO countries including France and the U.K. have been working on separate proposals that would include small numbers of European troops on Ukrainian soil after the war. This plan appears to disregard that possibility.
9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

10. The U.S. guarantee:
  • The U.S. will receive compensation for the guarantee;
  • If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee;
  • If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked;
  • If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.

12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
  • The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence.
  • The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernize, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
  • Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernization of cities and residential areas.
  • Infrastructure development.
  • Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
  • The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
  • The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
  • The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
  • Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:

  • $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine;
  • The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.

16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.

17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
  • Note: New START, the last major U.S.-Russia arms control treaty, is due to expire in February.
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.

20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
  • Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
  • Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. (Note: Similar ideas were incorporated into Trump's 2020 Israel-Palestine peace plan).
  • All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
21. Territories:
  • Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognized as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
  • Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
  • Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
  • Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone, internationally recognized as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone.
22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.

23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.

24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
  • All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis.
  • All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
  • A family reunification program will be implemented.
  • Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.

26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.

27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
  • Note: This is the same general structure Trump proposed to govern the Gaza peace agreement.
28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.


 
The 28 point plan:

1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.

2. A comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.

3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries and NATO will not expand further.

4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
  • Update: A separate document details the terms of the security guarantee. The U.S. and its NATO allies would treat an attack on Ukraine as an attack on the entire "transatlantic community."
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
  • Note: Ukraine's army currently has 800,000-850,000 personnel, and had around 250,000 beforethe war, according to a Ukrainian official.
7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
  • Note: NATO countries including France and the U.K. have been working on separate proposals that would include small numbers of European troops on Ukrainian soil after the war. This plan appears to disregard that possibility.
9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

10. The U.S. guarantee:
  • The U.S. will receive compensation for the guarantee;
  • If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee;
  • If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked;
  • If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.

12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
  • The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence.
  • The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernize, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
  • Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernization of cities and residential areas.
  • Infrastructure development.
  • Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
  • The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
  • The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
  • The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
  • Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:

  • $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine;
  • The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.

16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.

17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
  • Note: New START, the last major U.S.-Russia arms control treaty, is due to expire in February.
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.

20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
  • Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
  • Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. (Note: Similar ideas were incorporated into Trump's 2020 Israel-Palestine peace plan).
  • All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
21. Territories:
  • Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognized as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
  • Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
  • Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
  • Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone, internationally recognized as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone.
22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.

23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.

24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
  • All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis.
  • All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
  • A family reunification program will be implemented.
  • Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.

26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.

27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
  • Note: This is the same general structure Trump proposed to govern the Gaza peace agreement.
28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.



The Russians say its something to start with but the Ukrainians have basically changed a bunch and the Russians have already rejected that. The agreement even on the surface doesn't make much sense. I mean who puts that its a legal binding agreement than puts in there the territories are "de facto".

The military solution is probably the best for the long term. Its not a good agreement for either side, if the war ends the Ukraine gets no future funding and Europe will start their collapse in earnest, the terms in here really aren't helpful to the Russians as its a bunch of wordsmith at best.

The situation is no further along than late 2022.
 
The 28 point plan:

1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.
The russians are losing. Otherwise, they wouldn't have negotiated. This deal just weakens ukraine by limiting the size of its army for the inevitable next invasion and confirms russias gains in this phase of the conflict.
 
The russians are losing. Otherwise, they wouldn't have negotiated. This deal just weakens ukraine by limiting the size of its army for the inevitable next invasion and confirms russias gains in this phase of the conflict.


The notion that NATO agrees never to increase its membership, not just by adding Ukraine, but by adding anyone at all, is disturbing.
 
The notion that NATO agrees never to increase its membership, not just by adding Ukraine, but by adding anyone at all, is disturbing.
I don’t see Zelenskyy agreeing to #25, either.

Maybe that was thrown in for him as a negotiating tool.
 
I don’t see Zelenskyy agreeing to #25, either.

Maybe that was thrown in for him as a negotiating tool.


Well, a candidate running against Zelensky having agreed to the deal (i.e., gave up territory) would put someone in power who the Russians cannot abide. One would think that Putin will try to play a major role in their elections, as he has a history of doing.
 
Who would have thought that the Russians would prefer the pipe dream wishlist that they wrote up, ran though Google translate and handed to Steve Witkoff, rather then the EU proposal?

 
I don’t know why Ukraine needs to agree to that, we (the US) can simply say that the Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO.
I don't know why it includes clauses for any third party. I seriously doubt NATO itself would ever be a signer of that document, even if they did agree to the terms.
 
Not yet. For one thing, latest I've read is that Ukraine has not yet agreed to stay out of NATO, which would seem to be a major sticking point..
An Article 5 like security guarantee by the US would make NATO membership essentially moot IMO. But only if we’re 100% obligated to enter the fray if Russia misbehaves.

Glad to hear that a peace process *might* be at hand. Then again, it could still just be the beginning of the end.🤓
 
I don’t know why Ukraine needs to agree to that, we (the US) can simply say that the Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO.

Sounds like the U.S. and Russians want Europe out of the discussion, but the problem with that is the Ukraine is funded by Europe. So, you just have a negotiations by proxy. There are major problems with any of the proposals being floated about in the public, let alone others in the Ukraine government (parliament) that are saying they can't negotiate giving up land as it stands. Europe needs the war to continue, the Ukraine needs the war to continue to receive funding, and the Russians appear to have to continue to go to war to get what they want.

I don't know if an agreement will ever be reached but its hard to imagine what is being floated out there from ever being agreed upon.

I agree with what you are saying which is NATO and Europe are not really relevant to the discussion directly, the problem is one of funding.
 
Trump has surely already given that assurance to his bestie, Vlad.

View attachment 792692

If they were best friends, obviously the war would have been over by now. Trump is doing more for the Ukraine than what I would do, he is obviously trying to salvage something there..... why, I have no idea.

I look forward to normal relations, Europe not so much. Get out of NATO and UN, the rest will work itself out naturally.

The winner will make the history and the U.S. will be on the loser side of the history unless Trump can get this plan working i.e. Russian assets.
 


He is retarded. The plan isn't going to be accepted by the Russia, Europe or the Ukraine as is. Trust has nothing to do with it, the other players can negotiate an end of the war without the U.S. even being involved. I would like to see what is purposed that someone actually believes will be accepted. As soon as the Ukraine agrees, all funding will more or less come to an end.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus...u_pov_ukraine_disagrees_on_several_points_of/

Other than disagreeing with the vast majority of the agreement, they agree. 😂

It seems pretty easy to me, you make a deal with Russia that the Ukraine will not become a NATO member as long as the U.S. is in NATO, you lift sanctions on Russia and agree to normal relations, you agree to have Europe turn over the Russian bank assets in exchange for $100B (of the $200-350B) of it or joint use economically, and parties agree that any other damages between parties is settled (i.e. pipeline). The U.S. exits from the loser side of the equation, and joins the winning side of the equation as the winner are the good guys and writes the history. The rest will work itself out naturally.

https%3A%2F%2Fdo0bihdskp9dy.cloudfront.net%2F03-18-2025%2Ft_c31be56f34744335ac8709742c944f63_name_file_1280x720_2000_v3_1_.jpg
 
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He is retarded. The plan isn't going to be accepted by the Russia, Europe or the Ukraine as is. Trust has nothing to do with it, the other players can negotiate an end of the war without the U.S. even being involved. I would like to see what is purposed that someone actually believes will be accepted. As soon as the Ukraine agrees, all funding will more or less come to an end.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus...u_pov_ukraine_disagrees_on_several_points_of/

Other than disagreeing with the vast majority of the agreement, they agree. 😂

https%3A%2F%2Fdo0bihdskp9dy.cloudfront.net%2F03-18-2025%2Ft_c31be56f34744335ac8709742c944f63_name_file_1280x720_2000_v3_1_.jpg
Bearded won't be happy until we invade.
 
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