War in Ukraine

#89,826
#89,826
BeardedVol said:
Russia had not moved to a war economy in 2023.

The fact that you believe that Russia economy is the same now as it was in February of 2023 does explain some of the things you post at least.

Page not Found | Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
carnegieendowment.org carnegieendowment.org
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You were wrong and the Ukraine lost, this isn't 3d chess. Your takes and postings are ****, obviously which is why you are crying. 🤷‍♂️
 
#89,829
#89,829
G6QosYCWUAAdN4C
 
#89,830
#89,830
abcnews.go.com

Trump administration's 28-point Ukraine-Russia peace plan presented to Zelenskyy

The plan, which is still a draft and could change, was presented in Kyiv earlier Thursday.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

giving up land would be a hard one to accept but Ukraine may have this...


The plan would force Kyiv to give up additional territory in the east, cap the size of its military and agree it will never join NATO, among a number of other items that will be painful for the war-torn country to swallow.

Even though the Trump administration plan calls for significant concessions from Ukraine, one of the security guarantees that will be provided to Ukraine is modeled on the principles of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Under the proposed plan, the U.S. and European allies would view an attack on Ukraine as an attack on the "transatlantic community," according to a senior U.S. administration official.

Officially, the 28-point peace plan notes that "Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees."

The senior official confirmed that one of those security guarantees is a NATO-style security guarantee, which means the U.S. and its allies could respond with military force if Russia attacks Ukraine in the future.

That could be seen as a huge, unprecedented win for Ukraine and Zelenskyy, who has, for years, sought long-term, collective defense protection from NATO allies.

The plan was presented to Zelenskky on Thursday, the U.S. official said.
 
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#89,832
#89,832
TVOLS said:
abcnews.go.com

Trump administration's 28-point Ukraine-Russia peace plan presented to Zelenskyy

The plan, which is still a draft and could change, was presented in Kyiv earlier Thursday.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

giving up land would be a hard one to accept but Ukraine may have this...


The plan would force Kyiv to give up additional territory in the east, cap the size of its military and agree it will never join NATO, among a number of other items that will be painful for the war-torn country to swallow.

Even though the Trump administration plan calls for significant concessions from Ukraine, one of the security guarantees that will be provided to Ukraine is modeled on the principles of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Under the proposed plan, the U.S. and European allies would view an attack on Ukraine as an attack on the "transatlantic community," according to a senior U.S. administration official.

Officially, the 28-point peace plan notes that "Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees."

The senior official confirmed that one of those security guarantees is a NATO-style security guarantee, which means the U.S. and its allies could respond with military force if Russia attacks Ukraine in the future.

That could be seen as a huge, unprecedented win for Ukraine and Zelenskyy, who has, for years, sought long-term, collective defense protection from NATO allies.

The plan was presented to Zelenskky on Thursday, the U.S. official said.
Click to expand...

They can give them a security guarantee right this second. 😂 People don't realize even under Article 5 it only gives a country the opportunity to help.

I mean the Ukraine is in the position its currently in due to those same countries. To me it doesn't seem to be a good deal for Russia as the Ukraine itself is really not being addressed.... which leads to a real possibility of a rinse and repeat.

The neocons set this one up very well.
 
#89,833
#89,833
TVOLS said:
abcnews.go.com

Trump administration's 28-point Ukraine-Russia peace plan presented to Zelenskyy

The plan, which is still a draft and could change, was presented in Kyiv earlier Thursday.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

giving up land would be a hard one to accept but Ukraine may have this...


The plan would force Kyiv to give up additional territory in the east, cap the size of its military and agree it will never join NATO, among a number of other items that will be painful for the war-torn country to swallow.

Even though the Trump administration plan calls for significant concessions from Ukraine, one of the security guarantees that will be provided to Ukraine is modeled on the principles of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Under the proposed plan, the U.S. and European allies would view an attack on Ukraine as an attack on the "transatlantic community," according to a senior U.S. administration official.

Officially, the 28-point peace plan notes that "Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees."

The senior official confirmed that one of those security guarantees is a NATO-style security guarantee, which means the U.S. and its allies could respond with military force if Russia attacks Ukraine in the future.

That could be seen as a huge, unprecedented win for Ukraine and Zelenskyy, who has, for years, sought long-term, collective defense protection from NATO allies.

The plan was presented to Zelenskky on Thursday, the U.S. official said.
Click to expand...

I don't like the govt guaranteeing anyone's security. The details on that are crucial.
 
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#89,835
#89,835
hog88 said:
I don't like the govt guaranteeing anyone's security. The details on that are crucial.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't look like that at this point, if they did... what is the difference to being in NATO?

I think that is my point, parties playing wordsmith - Russians would probably be better off just continuing.
 
#89,836
#89,836
hog88 said:
I don't like the govt guaranteeing anyone's security. The details on that are crucial.
Click to expand...
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus...pov_we_are_ready_for_peace_talks_but_russian/

This might answer your question, looks like its a framework they could work from but the devil is in the details. This is starting to look like the Alaska trip where the Russians claim a plan outline was proposed by the U.S. and Russians agreed to it as a foundation, they followed back up and the U.S. said that the Ukrainians would probably not agree.

All of this seems very complicated to a degree, meaning they are not really addressing the Ukraine. All funding will be pulled almost immediately from that country as soon as a deal is signed.
 
#89,837
#89,837
Trump is doing something good for Ukraine, at least.

Russia's economy is now feeling the pressure from oil sanctions that have finally kicked in as of November 21. Roughly about 80 to 100 million barrels of Russian oil is stuck on the high seas. Some of the oil they continue to produce has been placed in empty tankers, pushing up the price to rent existing tankers.

"The price of Russia’s flagship oil grade is down around 17% since the U.S. sanctions were announced as international demand drops....

The new U.S. measures have also left tens of millions of barrels of sanctioned oil stranded at sea and made shipping crude more expensive. Total oil on water—including crude in transit and stored in tankers—reached 1.4 billion barrels this week, according to Vortexa, an energy and shipping analytics firm....

About 240 million barrels of oil have built up on the sea since the end of August to mid-November, said David Wech, chief economist at Vortexa. Of those, roughly a third are sanctioned barrels—with some would-be buyers wary of taking delivery, at least temporarily.

https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodi...through-oil-markets-5de5d9b1?mod=hp_lead_pos2
 
#89,839
#89,839
FortSanders said:
Trump is doing something good for Ukraine, at least.

Russia's economy is now feeling the pressure from oil sanctions that have finally kicked in as of November 21. Roughly about 80 to 100 million barrels of Russian oil is stuck on the high seas. Some of the oil they continue to produce has been placed in empty tankers, pushing up the price to rent existing tankers.

"The price of Russia’s flagship oil grade is down around 17% since the U.S. sanctions were announced as international demand drops....

The new U.S. measures have also left tens of millions of barrels of sanctioned oil stranded at sea and made shipping crude more expensive. Total oil on water—including crude in transit and stored in tankers—reached 1.4 billion barrels this week, according to Vortexa, an energy and shipping analytics firm....

About 240 million barrels of oil have built up on the sea since the end of August to mid-November, said David Wech, chief economist at Vortexa. Of those, roughly a third are sanctioned barrels—with some would-be buyers wary of taking delivery, at least temporarily.

https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodi...through-oil-markets-5de5d9b1?mod=hp_lead_pos2
Click to expand...

Jan. 16, 2023
Russia’s Energy Clout Is Waning, Weakening Its Global Influence

Nov. 22, 2022
Russia’s Munitions Shortages Raise Questions Over How Long It Can Continue Ukraine War

March 28, 2023
Russia’s Economy Is Starting to Come Undone

Jan. 6, 2023
It Would Be Hard for Ukraine to Lose the War to Russia

392debb9-a23b-4b74-8644-7d7c60b2263a_text.gif



(That has to be exhausting carrying all that... just saying)
 
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#89,840
#89,840
FortSanders said:
I have developed whiplash. Trump has been play by Putin once every 2 months, since Trump took office.
Click to expand...

Nobody is playing anyone, there isn't even cards on the table to play a game. TDS is real thing, you probably developed that or you have something much worse.
 
#89,842
#89,842
War back on. Looks like Russia is fine with this as a starting block but needs additional details. Looks like a rejection by the Ukraine, and all this is overblown.

"he'll (Midget) have to like it, and if he doesn't like it then, you know, they should just keep fighting"



The Orange man and the Da Pootin are much nicer than me.

Looks like extend and pretend is back on for a bit. I really don't think anyone can really follow any of this. 😂
 
#89,847
#89,847
Trump's 28-point plan is nonsensical and won't be accepted by either side. He's treating it like a NYC real estate deal.

Zelensky finally took a sip of truth serum before speaking.

 
#89,848
#89,848
Asked by CNN’s Kevin Liptak what happens if Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky doesn’t accept the plan by his deadline Thursday, Trump replied:

“Then he can continue to fight his little heart out.”


Donald once again proves he's a jackass of epic proportions.

A tiny, self absorbed ****.

Wonder if his bone spurs bother him with all that golfing.

EDIT

TACO!

That asshat is just a flag in the breeze. Any way the wind blows his rubber spine bends.

“No, not my final offer,” Trump told reporters on the White House South Lawn on Saturday. “We’d like to get to peace. It should’ve happened a long time ago.”

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#89,849
#89,849
I mean FFS. Trump... Always the useful idiot.

WRAL News:

U.S. senators critical of President Donald Trump’s approach to ending the Russia-Ukraine war said Saturday they spoke with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio who told them that the peace plan Trump is pushing Kyiv to accept is a “wish list” of the Russians and not the actual U.S. plan.

The 28-point peace plan was crafted by the Trump administration and the Kremlin without Ukraine’s involvement. It acquiesces to many Russian demands that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has categorically rejected on dozens of occasions, including giving up large pieces of territory. Trump says he wants Ukraine to accept the plan by late next week.
 
#89,850
#89,850
And there you have it... Donald was offered some sort of financial deal to present a Russian "peace plan".

Trump really should just wear a "FOR SALE" badge at all times. Hey MAGA morons - when are you gonna figure out Donnie's using you?

Reuters:

Trump officials' meeting with Russian in Miami spurs questions about Ukraine proposal​


U.S. officials and lawmakers are increasingly concerned about a meeting last month in which representatives of the Trump administration met with Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian envoy who is under U.S. sanctions, to draft a plan to end the war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

The meeting took place in Miami at the end of October and included special envoy Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Dmitriev, who leads the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), one of Russia's largest sovereign wealth funds.

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