War in Ukraine

[BeardedVol]

they are welcome to go it on their own. somehow I doubt they want the "freedom" of not having "one of their hands tied behind their back".

they are the small lap dog that got attacked by the big bad dog. ran away scared until they got into our lap, then started acting tough, and like to pretend like we are the only thing saving the big dog from a butt whooping.

I've aid it numerous times, if we don't want to uphold our obligations under the Budapest Memorandum, then we should compensate them for their monetary loss in doing so at our instance and stop trying to force them to cede land to Russia for "peace".

Your second statement is patently ludicrous. Ukraine didn't attack Russia.

 

[hog88]

I've aid it numerous times, if we don't want to uphold our obligations under the Budapest Memorandum, then we should compensate them for their monetary loss in doing so at our instance and stop trying to force them to cede land to Russia for "peace".

Your second statement is patently ludicrous. Ukraine didn't attack Russia.

We’ve gone far above our BM obligations.

 

[LouderVol]

I've aid it numerous times, if we don't want to uphold our obligations under the Budapest Memorandum, then we should compensate them for their monetary loss in doing so at our instance and stop trying to force them to cede land to Russia for "peace".

Your second statement is patently ludicrous. Ukraine didn't attack Russia.

to the red, read my statement again. I never said they attacked Russia.

What obligation would we fail to meet under the Budapest Memorandum if we stopped now? It says we will provide aid. it doesn't say what type, for how long, or to what end. we have provided them aid.

 

[BeardedVol]

to the red, read my statement again. I never said they attacked Russia.

What obligation would we fail to meet under the Budapest Memorandum if we stopped now? It says we will provide aid. it doesn't say what type, for how long, or to what end. we have provided them aid.

Apart from not even paying lip service to the 'security assurances' that Ukraine traded billions in military hardware for?

Where does it say that there's a time frame that we agreed to where we could stop?

Like I said, compensate them for the losses they incurred in adhering to the agreement, and formally remove ourselves from it.

At this point, with this administration, we are doing more harm in trying to force 'Putin's peace' on them for the sake of Trump's Nobel Peace Prize campaign, than we are helping.

 

[BeardedVol]

We’ve gone far above our BM obligations.

Not even close in terms of monetary or intrinsic deterrent value of the weapons that they gave up to comply.

 

[dalton_vol]

Bearded must work for blackrock or Raytheon. You must have some serious Stocks invested in those weapon companies

 

[hog88]

Not even close in terms of monetary or intrinsic deterrent value of the weapons that they gave up to comply.
View attachment 769915

Monetary value? Those warheads were worth nothing because neither Russia, the US or Europe were ever going to allow them to be sold. Without a buyer what you have is worthless. Intrinsic value? LOL - what's valuable about something that can't be used? Ukraine would have never been allowed the activation, launch or arming codes.

 

[LouderVol]

Apart from not even paying lip service to the 'security assurances' that Ukraine traded billions in military hardware for?

Where does it say that there's a time frame that we agreed to where we could stop?

Like I said, compensate them for the losses they incurred in adhering to the agreement, and formally remove ourselves from it.

At this point, with this administration, we are doing more harm in trying to force 'Putin's peace' on them for the sake of Trump's Nobel Peace Prize campaign, than we are helping.

so, you got nothing for completely misreading my statement?

where does it say theres a time frame we agreed to continuously supply them? you have made up standards that don't exist.

btw, you should actually read the BM. it doesn't say what you think it says:
1. respect their independence, and existing borders. we have done that.
2. refrain from using violent threats against Ukraine, nor to use the weapons they gave up against Ukraine. we have done that.
3. no economic coercion. we have done that.
4. we will seek UN action to get assistance in the case nukes are used against Ukraine, or are they attacked. we have done that.
5. the other signers, not Ukraine, reaffirm that we won't nuke any non-nuke nation unless attacked first. we have done that.
6. we agreed to consult if there were questions on the matters above. we have done that.

fwiw, what is a security assurance you think is included? I think most people means giving them arms, we have done so. we have also given them info, and worked with our allies - who didn't sign BM - to give them even more. We have met the requirements, if they wanted more they should have specified.

 

[BeardedVol]

Monetary value? Those warheads were worth nothing because neither Russia, the US or Europe were ever going to allow them to be sold. Without a buyer what you have is worthless. Intrinsic value? LOL - what's valuable about something that can't be used? Ukraine would have never been allowed the activation, launch or arming codes.

That doesn't decrease their monetary value as a military asset. It definitely doesn't decrease their value as a deterrent from invasion.

At the time, it was estimated that Ukraine would have operational control in 6-18 months should they decide to keep the weapons, and the decision to not do so was based on economics and diplomacy, and not lack of technical ability.