War in Ukraine

#79,554
#79,554
BeardedVol said:
Appeasement always works.
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To be fair, the two situations are unrelated. Russia's situation would be like Germany going to war with Czechoslovakia and currently engaged in a war that is a stalemate. If that had happened, Hitler would not have become a threat. Putin and Russia's performance in Ukraine has been dreadful and can't be compared with Nazi Germany who was conquering nations in the matter of weeks.
 
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#79,556
#79,556
volbound1700 said:
To be fair, the two situations are unrelated. Russia's situation would be like Germany going to war with Czechoslovakia and currently engaged in a war that is a stalemate. If that had happened, Hitler would not have become a threat. Putin and Russia's performance in Ukraine has been dreadful and can't be compared with Nazi Germany who was conquering nations in the matter of weeks.
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This has been going on for far longer than 2/24/2022.

2008 Russia invaded and occupied Georgia, the world did nothing.

2014 Russia invaded and occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine, the word did nothing.

2022 Russia escalated it's invasion of Ukraine in an attempt to take the entire country.

It's not going to stop with Ukraine, and at some point Putin will test whether NATO resolve is real, and given that Russia is already conducting hybrid warfare operations inside NATO member countries, it's a "when" not an "if".

There is no return to 19th century isolationism for the United States, no matter how much some people want that to be a viable option.
 
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#79,557
#79,557
BeardedVol said:
This has been going on for far longer than 2/24/2022.

2008 Russia invaded and occupied Georgia, the world did nothing.

2014 Russia invaded and occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine, the word did nothing.

2022 Russia escalated it's invasion of Ukraine in an attempt to take the entire country.

It's not going to stop with Ukraine, and at some point Putin will test whether NATO resolve is real, and given that Russia is already conducting hybrid warfare operations inside NATO member countries, it's a "when" not an "if".

There is no return to 19th century isolationism for the United States, no matter how much some people want that to be a viable option.
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I think you missed my point. Unlike Germany and Hitler, Russia hasn't had a lot of success. They are just as aggressive but they are not as competent as Nazi Germany was in the 1930s/1940s.

Russia is losing so much in Ukraine that it may take them over a decade to be able to adequately fight another nation again.
 
#79,558
#79,558
utvolpj said:
Made possible by the absurd actions of ww1 and the following treaty. Short sighted foreign policy caused millions of deaths and continental devastation

Not that there are any parallels to draw wrt our foreign policy of the past few decades....
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Right...so Germany was justified in invading, subjugating, and murdering millions, because they started WW1, lost, and had to stomach the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles?

Was this your grandfather?
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#79,560
#79,560
BeardedVol said:
This has been going on for far longer than 2/24/2022.

2008 Russia invaded and occupied Georgia, the world did nothing.

2014 Russia invaded and occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine, the word did nothing.

2022 Russia escalated it's invasion of Ukraine in an attempt to take the entire country.

It's not going to stop with Ukraine, and at some point Putin will test whether NATO resolve is real, and given that Russia is already conducting hybrid warfare operations inside NATO member countries, it's a "when" not an "if".

There is no return to 19th century isolationism for the United States, no matter how much some people want that to be a viable option.
Click to expand...

Looks like he will wait until the next Dem is office to do that.
 
#79,561
#79,561
utvolpj said:
Cause and effect of bad policy decisions.

But I'm really sure they'll get it right this time!
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Interesting that you don't apply the same logic to Germany, starting WW1 and having to deal with the effects of "bad policy decisions".

Some might consider that a bit hypocritical of you.
 
#79,567
#79,567
GPsJ-hpWIAAfJ35
 
#79,568
#79,568
McDad said:
@BeardedVol
Do you really believe Russia/Ukraine today is analogous to Germany/Europe pre WW2?
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I think Russia's behavior starting with the invasion of Georgia in 2008, and the subsequent invasion of Ukraine in 2014 is analogous to Germany's invasion of Austria and what was then Czechoslovakia.

I think both were and are pivotal moments that will be looked back upon, as a failure of western democracy to take a stand against expansionist authoritarians, and regretting not doing so because of the outcome of that failure.

Putin is already engaging in a hybrid war with NATO, and has been since 2007, and there's no reason to believe that he's not going to escalate as far as he thinks he can get away with.
 
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#79,569
#79,569
BeardedVol said:
Lol, and how exactly does that have any bearing on his (lack of) material response?

Obama wasn't even the president-elect at the time, but sure, blame Bush's (lack of) response on him, why not.
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Bush did take action (albeit not direct action) he authorized us military transport planes to fly aid into Georgia and also transported Georgian troops and equipment back to Georgia from Afghanistan. It was under Obama that Russia carved out two provinces and got away with it.
 
#79,571
#79,571
BeardedVol said:
I think Russia's behavior starting with the invasion of Georgia in 2008, and the subsequent invasion of Ukraine in 2014 is analogous to Germany's invasion of Austria and what was then Czechoslovakia.

I think both were and are pivotal moments that will be looked back upon, as a failure of western democracy to take a stand against expansionist authoritarians, and regretting not doing so because of the outcome of that failure.

Putin is already engaging in a hybrid war with NATO, and has been since 2007, and there's no reason to believe that he's not going to escalate as far as he thinks he can get away with.
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Can you understand it doesn't feel analogous to me mainly because Germany invaded and defeated their neighbors in a blitz while Russia is taking a decade or longer?
 
#79,572
#79,572
whodeycin85 said:
What countries has Russia invaded since it broke apart that wasn't post of Russia before?
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Why exactly does being conquered or colonized by Russia at some point in a country's history, make it acceptable for modern Russia to invade and occupy that country today?

By that logic, you'd support the UK invading the original 13 US colonies.
 
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#79,575
#79,575
McDad said:
Can you understand it doesn't feel analogous to me mainly because Germany invaded and defeated their neighbors in a blitz while Russia is taking a decade or longer?
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I'm not sure Russian corruption having a detrimental affect on the their battlefield efficiency has any real bearing on the core of Russia's expansionist policy.

You can get into all kinds of details about how warfare changed when Germany invaded, outdated modes of fighting by the Allies, technological advancement by Germany, political appeasement for the sake of "peace", etc, significantly contributing to the early success of the blitzkrieg in 1939; the reality is much more nuanced.
 
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