War in Ukraine

[MontyPython]

Dude, they're being shot down by the dozen. WTF are you talking about?

Link to the source of your drivel.

(There will be no link as this is 100% just another ass nugget)

You really need to understand the literal nature of Russian press claims... at Belbek Air base, they *did* intercept all the ATACMS, just they used their MIGs and S400s on the ground to do so.

 

[rekinhavoc]

https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/putin-russia-economy/2024/05/17/id/1165217/

"Essentially, this is pointing to a strategy of attrition and a willingness to take risks, take losses, while waiting for Ukraine to no longer have the capacity to fight and the West no longer the will to keep supporting it,"

Read more: Putin Overhauling Economy for Prolonged War | Newsmax.com

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[volgr]

Yep, most of these guys have been sacrificed to the Western Death Cult. Sick stuff.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Yep, most of these guys have been sacrificed to the Western Death Cult. Sick stuff.

I would say the issue is the lack of strategy of any kind. Meaning, using meat shields can be a legitimate strategy to buy time, but in this case what would they be buying time for? The attrition factors are way on Russia's side here. So, in WWII Russia threw meat shields as a way of slowing the advance of Hilter, that way they could build up their real forces (training) and production. Attrition was always in favor of the Allies as Hilter was spread thin due to multiple fronts. Some military production will go up but it will take years, and they'll run out of meat without third party intervention at scale.

What's the strategy?

 

[BeardedVol]

Yep, most of these guys have been sacrificed to the Western Death Cult. Sick stuff.

Just imagine, none of them would have died had Russia not invaded Ukraine.

 

[tnmarktx]

Just imagine, none of them would have died had Russia not invaded Ukraine.

But, they did. The only way to stop them was to commit our troops to save them. No amount of money was ever going to do that. Many on here, including yourself and your cheerleaders claimed that Ukraine was going to defeat Russia and we just needed to continue to send money at whatever cost of life and tax dollars. You guys claimed that anyone that disagreed was a Russian sympathizer. Ready to eat your crow yet?

 

[BeardedVol]

But, they did. The only way to stop them was to commit our troops to save them. No amount of money was ever going to do that. Many on here, including yourself and your cheerleaders claimed that Ukraine was going to defeat Russia and we just needed to continue to send money at whatever cost of life and tax dollars. You guys claimed that anyone that disagreed was a Russian sympathizer. Ready to eat your crow yet?

Lol what nonsense are you going on about?

If we'd allowed them to start the process to join NATO back in 2008, then they'd not have been invaded in 2014.

 

[MG1968]

But, they did. The only way to stop them was to commit our troops to save them. No amount of money was ever going to do that. Many on here, including yourself and your cheerleaders claimed that Ukraine was going to defeat Russia and we just needed to continue to send money at whatever cost of life and tax dollars. You guys claimed that anyone that disagreed was a Russian sympathizer. Ready to eat your crow yet?

What about all the Russian lives sacrificed for Putin’s little escapade? Have the results so far been worth the loss in men and materiel?

 

[LSU-SIU]

But, they did. The only way to stop them was to commit our troops to save them. No amount of money was ever going to do that. Many on here, including yourself and your cheerleaders claimed that Ukraine was going to defeat Russia and we just needed to continue to send money at whatever cost of life and tax dollars. You guys claimed that anyone that disagreed was a Russian sympathizer. Ready to eat your crow yet?

Regardless if is on one side, or the other side, or on no side - there has to be a strategy. Right now, the strategy appears to be hope.

If one was say pitching this war to get others engaged into it either for funds, equipment, or personnel.... exactly what is the sales pitch? What exactly is the desired outcome? How do you realistically plan to get there? What are the costs in money, resources and meat? How do you realistically obtain those things?

Unless the Ukraine mobilizes the whole country i.e. WWII style, its hard to imagine how there will be significant impact to the battlefield.

Even someone that is going to open a hotdog stand starts to calculate costs.

 

[LSU-SIU]

What about all the Russian lives sacrificed for Putin’s little escapade? Have the results so far been worth the loss in men and materiel?

That's up to the Russians to figure out. (my guess as to them, yes, but its immaterial what I think) The issue is, people and property can be saved now. There isn't anything for them to "win", not really.

 

[MG1968]

That's up to the Russians to figure out. (my guess as to them, yes, but its immaterial what I think) The issue is, people and property can be saved now. There isn't anything for them to "win", not really.

It doesn’t matter what you think about Ukrainian losses, either. But that’s never stopped your bitching about the “meat grinder”.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It doesn’t matter what you think about Ukrainian losses, either. But that’s never stopped your bitching about the “meat grinder”.

At the end of the day, its up to them to either get fed to the grinder or rebel. What I care about is my own money to support the nonsense.

I'm not bitching (although I value human life).... grind away, just don't be grinding and kidnapping people with my money. Russia really isn't asking anything of me, although it could be implied to get our government out of the situation.

Its not really that hard. The real response would/should have been.... our end goal is this, our realistic plan is this, our projected costs in resources, money and people is this, etc. But that happening i.e. hope.

 

[BeardedVol]

At the end of the day, its up to them to either get fed to the grinder or rebel. What I care about is my own money to support the nonsense.

I'm not bitching (although I value human life).... grind away, just don't be grinding and kidnapping people with my money. Russia really isn't asking anything of me.

I take that's what you'd do, were your country invaded?

Surrender or rebel so you could surrender?

 

[evillawyer]

I need a good ol' fashioned lecture from @volgr about the Western death cult. Man, those were a hoot.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Regardless if is on one side, or the other side, or on no side - there has to be a strategy. Right now, the strategy appears to be hope.

Nope... the strategy was:
1. Sanctions
2. Regime change in Russia
3. Break up Russia into 5-7 states
4. Move on to China
5. If 1-4 didn't work, just get Russia bogged down into a Vietname/Afghanistan quagmire and drain their military capabilites
6. Move on to China

 

[LSU-SIU]

Nope... the strategy was:
1. Sanctions
2. Regime change in Russia
3. Break up Russia into 5-7 states
4. Move on to China
5. If 1-4 didn't work, just get Russia bogged down into a Vietname/Afghanistan quagmire and drain their military capabilites
6. Move on to China

I would have to agree there but the problem is, even if that was the "strategy", that "strategy" has clearly not worked at this point and probably has had the opposite effect. (I know you know that, just saying) If that strategy has failed than a new course of action has to happen and adjust to a new potential outcome desired. To get the new outcome desired, one must have a strategy, the Ukraine nor the United States have a strategy that I can tell.

There is no sale here other than some type of hope, I'm not even sure hope even exists.... its just nonsense. If you go through all of your meat and ammo, than its onto unconditional surrender time at some point. Basically using people as meat shields with no real plan or strategy not only doesn't make sense, its just down right evil. Meat shields can be a legitimate tactic but not when you have nothing on the back end, imo.

If one spends all of their chips, at some point there isn't anything to negotiate.

 

[LouderVol]

Putin didn't force you and your country to invade Iraqi, Panama, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan... nor did it force you or your country to bomb Yugoslavia and Yemen, nor did it force you or your government to arm countless other countries. Is Russia now benefiting from a war time economy, probably so.... did Russia enter Ukraine to make money? Not from my POV, but that's irrelevant even we disagree.... I'm not Russian.

I don't know what you mean about a foreign agent. If the words hurt your feelings, maybe look in the mirror. Nothing I am saying should be a surprise after the last 30+ years of this.

you kept saying "your country" when talking about America. which says that you don't claim it, which much mean you are a foreign agent if you aren't American.

putin has made us arm plenty of countries. look at Ukraine, we had an agreement to support Ukraine if they were attacked. they were attacked. by Russia. under Trump we weren't arming Ukraine with much lethal aid, then Putin escalated. the soviets, which I know you flip flop on if the USSR=Russia or not, ran just as many proxy wars as the US did. they were all tit for tats. Those moves during the cold war set the stage for the current geopolitical issues.

 

[LouderVol]

Is Ukraine winning or losing? Simple question.

you mean a basic deflection.

 

[LouderVol]

Setbacks? The vaunted Ukrainian offensive last summer/fall was a catastrophic failure. Now Russia is making sizeable gains along the entire line of contact. What alternate reality do the Ukrainiancs live in?

where are the sizeable gains?

 

[LouderVol]

No real objectives were accomplished, and the war was lost. What should have been done, wasn't. The military which was being ran by multiple commanders in chief lost. A bunch of innocent people died, a bunch of Americans lost their limbs and lives, and 1-2 trillion was spent for no real reason. No battles have to be lost to lose a war. Not only did United States lose, they turned over the country to the enemy that didn't have control of the country before hand, gave them billions in money and military equipment.

Why exactly are you trying to "change" Afghanistan? (your problem(s) probably start there)

did Russia win back under Catherine the Great when she took Ukraine?

they took over Ukraine, held it for a while, but Ukraine gained its freedom back as a separate entity from Russia. Sounds like Catherine the Great was really Catherine the Loser.

you hold an impossible standard that you only apply to one side.

 

[LouderVol]

Large naval ships are a thing of the past, generally speaking. Which is why the large navies of the UK and US are having a hard time dealing with the cave dwellers in Yemen.

Building large naval ships for war seems outdated.

so why does Russia NEED Crimea then? It was an existential threat before, but now you are claiming its outdated?

 

[LouderVol]

If you fire enough of them, one or two will get through. No surprise about that.

you were calling it a fail of the Patriot system when some Russian missiles were getting thru. just another case of double standards.

 

[LSU-SIU]

you kept saying "your country" when talking about America. which says that you don't claim it, which much mean you are a foreign agent if you aren't American.

putin has made us arm plenty of countries. look at Ukraine, we had an agreement to support Ukraine if they were attacked. they were attacked. by Russia. under Trump we weren't arming Ukraine with much lethal aid, then Putin escalated. the soviets, which I know you flip flop on if the USSR=Russia or not, ran just as many proxy wars as the US did. they were all tit for tats. Those moves during the cold war set the stage for the current geopolitical issues.

Because you don't admit it, I fully admit.

Putin never made you (us) do anything. Matter of fact, you (United States) we're suppose to be arming anyone. Why is the U.S. involved? Russia hasn't done anything to me that I can remember in my lifetime, not that I can think of. How is any of this my concern on a taxpayer level, why are my tax dollars being used to kidnap people in vans and throw them into ditches to receive FABS?

Its all a lie, just like North Vietnamese was our enemy, yet today we have normal relations.

At the end of the day though, even if I believe what you believe... your government has set up the Ukraine to get blown up. There is no plan, other than to take a piss on the Ukraine. Not much I can do about it.

 

[LouderVol]

Because you don't admit it, I fully admit.

Putin never made you (us) do anything. Matter of fact, you (United States) we're suppose to be arming anyone. Why is the U.S. involved? Russia hasn't done anything to me that I can remember in my lifetime, not that I can think of. How is any of this my concern on a taxpayer level, why are my tax dollars being used to kidnap people in vans and throw them into ditches to receive FABS?

Its all a lie, just like North Vietnamese was our enemy, yet today we have normal relations.

At the end of the day though, even if I believe what you believe... your government has set up the Ukraine to get blown up. There is no plan, other than to take a piss on the Ukraine. Not much I can do about it.

admit what?

The US is involved because we have an agreement to support Ukraine. If we are to have any sort of relations with the rest of the world, including just trade agreements, we have to stick by our written words.