War in Ukraine

#72,807
#72,807
America pumping most of the resources into this war is getting harder to defend. I doubt Europe will pump an equivalent amount of resources into the ME war. China Joe thinks money grows on trees. Zelensky must be getting jealous about the tumbleweed growing in this thread.
 
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#72,808
#72,808
BreatheUT said:
America pumping most of the resources into this war is getting harder to defend. I doubt Europe will pump an equivalent amount of resources into the ME war. China Joe thinks money grows on trees. Zelensky must be getting jealous about the tumbleweed growing in this thread.
Click to expand...
Reality:
1000005096.png

www.statista.com

Infographic: The Countries Sending the Most Aid to Ukraine

This chart shows the countries which have committed the most aid to Ukraine, by type, from January 2022 to December 2024.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
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#72,809
#72,809
BeardedVol said:
Reality:
View attachment 589062

www.statista.com

Infographic: The Countries Sending the Most Aid to Ukraine

This chart shows the countries which have committed the most aid to Ukraine, by type, from January 2022 to December 2024.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
Click to expand...

Allow me to be an antagonist if I may. EU institutions is vague. Also, notice the amount of financial support versus true military assistance in terms of weapons and ammunition. Also, pledged vs committed is another difference. Pledged financial support means we promise we will give in the future.
 
#72,810
#72,810
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#72,811
#72,811
BreatheUT said:
Allow me to be an antagonist if I may. EU institutions is vague. Also, notice the amount of financial support versus true military assistance in terms of weapons and ammunition. Also, pledged vs committed is another difference. Pledged financial support means we promise we will give in the future.
Click to expand...

We have weapons sitting around costing us money to store and maintain, weapons that have a shelf life that we'll have to pay to dispose of if they are not eventually used.

Why are you so averse to those being sent to Ukraine so they can defend themselves?
 
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#72,812
#72,812
BeardedVol said:
We have weapons sitting around costing us money to store and maintain, weapons that have a shelf life that we'll have to pay to dispose of if they are not eventually used.

Why are you so averse to those being sent to Ukraine so they can defend themselves?
Click to expand...
Yep, he fell into that one. EU is providing real $. We're basically donating stuff that didn't get used, like what someone would do after a yard sale.
 
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#72,814
#72,814
This talk of obsolete weapons yard sale is big pile of steaming ****. Typical for this crowd.
If it is obsolete then why is Biden asking for more money?
 
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#72,815
#72,815
Orangeburst said:
This talk of obsolete weapons yard sale is big pile of steaming ****. Typical for this crowd.
If it is obsolete then why is Biden asking for more money?
Click to expand...

F-14's are technically obsolete when put up against 5th generation fighters.

However, Russia is not deploying 5th generation fighters in Ukraine, hence why they are still useful in this conflict.

The same goes for the older models Abrams and other weapons being sent, as they are technically obsolete, if they are deployed against their modern counterparts, but Russia is deploying 30+ year old equipment in Ukraine.

Technically obsolete =/= ineffectual
 
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#72,816
#72,816
BeardedVol said:
F-14's are technically obsolete when put up against 5th generation fighters.

However, Russia is not deploying 5th generation fighters in Ukraine, hence why they are still useful in this conflict.

The same goes for the older models Abrams and other weapons being sent, as they are technically obsolete, if they are deployed against their modern counterparts, but Russia is deploying 30+ year old equipment in Ukraine.

Technically obsolete =/= ineffectual
Click to expand...
There are no F-14s.
Why is Biden asking for more money?
 
#72,818
#72,818
BeardedVol said:
Because ammunition costs money?

Because switchblade drones cost money?

Because Patriot missiles cost money?

Do I need to go on?
Click to expand...
you guys were debating “financial support” and turned it into “weapons that are obsolete“.
And now you just listed weapons and munitions that are not obsolete.
Like I said, a steaming pile argument.
 
#72,819
#72,819
Orangeburst said:
you guys were debating “financial support” and turned it into “weapons that are obsolete“.
And now you just listed weapons and munitions that are not obsolete.
Like I said, a steaming pile argument.
Click to expand...

Ammunition, explosives and rockets have a shelf life

Whether you pay to replace them now, or in 5 years when they are at the end of their life, makes no real difference to the fact that you still have to pay for the replacement.
 
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#72,822
#72,822
Orangeburst said:
This talk of obsolete weapons yard sale is big pile of steaming ****. Typical for this crowd.
If it is obsolete then why is Biden asking for more money?
Click to expand...

Can't transfer them off the books and out of storage unless you show it as a monetary transaction, and apparently .gov bookkeepers and handlers have to have a paper trail. Therefore, transactions of even obsolete equipment and supplies have to have a paper trail authorizing their transfer. Maybe that's the problem with the military's failure to pass audits ... nobody filled in the appropriate paperwork to use stuff before shooting at the bad guys.

I spent a very long day on a range firing old ammunition (the WW2/Korea era bazooka) kind. Can't tell you how many misfires I had, how it was fun at first, and complete drudgery by the end of the day. All that stuff has a shelf life. You should have seen some of the dates on C-rations. I still tell my wife she's nuts for tossing canned food just a couple of years out of date.
 
#72,824
#72,824
BeardedVol said:
We have weapons sitting around costing us money to store and maintain, weapons that have a shelf life that we'll have to pay to dispose of if they are not eventually used.

Why are you so averse to those being sent to Ukraine so they can defend themselves?
Click to expand...
because we will need them ourselves. If a third party is blowing through our stored weapons and equipment, what do you think happens when we have to start using them?

First it was Ukraine.
Then it was Israel.
The Chinese just rammed one of our allies, the Philippines, ship in the South China Sea.
The world is not calming down.

We really need to start paying attention to history. World wide pandemic. Economic turn downs the world over. Increased internal dispute. Multiple on going wars by "allies". Pending wars where there hasn't been in more than 70 years. Now is not the time to be decreasing our arsenal. and as we are finding out super modern, expensive, slow to make equipment is not what we need in a real war. We need reliable stuff that is easy to maintain or replace, in large numbers. all things our MIC doesn't do. which is why having large stockpiles is important.
 
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#72,825
#72,825
LouderVol said:
because we will need them ourselves. If a third party is blowing through our stored weapons and equipment, what do you think happens when we have to start using them?

First it was Ukraine.
Then it was Israel.
The Chinese just rammed one of our allies, the Philippines, ship in the South China Sea.
The world is not calming down.

We really need to start paying attention to history. World wide pandemic. Economic turn downs the world over. Increased internal dispute. Multiple on going wars by "allies". Pending wars where there hasn't been in more than 70 years. Now is not the time to be decreasing our arsenal. and as we are finding out super modern, expensive, slow to make equipment is not what we need in a real war. We need reliable stuff that is easy to maintain or replace, in large numbers. all things our MIC doesn't do. which is why having large stockpiles is important.
Click to expand...

We aren't sending first generation ATACMS, with zero GPS guidance, and the old cluster warhead, which were slated to be upgraded or decommissioned, to war.

We also aren't going to use HIMARS against China in any conflict. Which would be primarily be a war of Naval and strategic missile assets, none of which have been provided to Ukraine.
 
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