Want To Know What's Really Embarrassing?

#326
#326
tvols75 said:
So when Bray and Hunter go down, who is supposed to combat the shock in the locker room? Tauren Poole? Austin Johnson? A lack of leadership is definitely the problem. Da'Rick would've had his ass kicked with any kind of leadership in the locker room.
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Da'Rick should have been thrown off the team long before he was.

What's the excuse this year?
 
#327
#327
tvols75 said:
So when Bray and Hunter go down, who is supposed to combat the shock in the locker room? Tauren Poole? Austin Johnson? A lack of leadership is definitely the problem. Da'Rick would've had his ass kicked with any kind of leadership in the locker room.
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You can't have leaders if you can't keep them on the team.
 
#328
#328
tvols75 said:
I agree with this. The only problem I have is the roadmap was designed to go like this:

Year 1: Get the young players some experience and create excitement. For the most part the last part of the year created excitement in the fan base. I think you will agree to some extent to that.

Year 2: Continue improving the young talent and eliminate the losing culture by getting 1-2 big wins. Overall, have a decent record and "learn how to win."

Year 3: WIN!


Year 2 threw a wrench in the plan. I'm not sure what you think, but it is hard for me to believe that with Bray and Hunter healthy that at least one win would've been had vs. Florida, UGA, or USCe. You can even make the case that two wins would've been had. That would've changed the entire landscape of this year. Now we get to this year, and we still have a team that has not figured out how to win. We are definitely getting closer, and hopefully that translates these last 7 games.
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How are we getting closer? Because UGA played like **** and was too chicken**** to try to stop the run so we happened to make it close before we handed them the game? Our defense still looked like garbage. If UGA hadn't had the worst defensive effort they are likely to show all year, we lose that game by three touchdowns.
 
#329
#329
tvols75 said:
I agree with this. The only problem I have is the roadmap was designed to go like this:

Year 1: Get the young players some experience and create excitement. For the most part the last part of the year created excitement in the fan base. I think you will agree to some extent to that.

Year 2: Continue improving the young talent and eliminate the losing culture by getting 1-2 big wins. Overall, have a decent record and "learn how to win."

Year 3: WIN!


Year 2 threw a wrench in the plan. I'm not sure what you think, but it is hard for me to believe that with Bray and Hunter healthy that at least one win would've been had vs. Florida, UGA, or USCe. You can even make the case that two wins would've been had. That would've changed the entire landscape of this year. Now we get to this year, and we still have a team that has not figured out how to win. We are definitely getting closer, and hopefully that translates these last 7 games.
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We lost to Kentucky last year with Bray and they didn't have a QB.

We had Bray and Hunter against UF and UGA this year... and lost both games. Perhaps we would have lost last year even if we had them.

Deal in reality and this won't be so complicated.
 
#330
#330
I'm sorry, you guys can call me a Negavol or whatever the ****, but "not quitting" isn't something I am going to sit here and cheer about. Especially considering that "not quitting" isn't even the norm around here.
 
#331
#331
oregonvol said:
I love the argument that Dooley inherited such a terrible situation that he can't be expected to win. First of all, no one here knows what a real coach could have done with talent that Dooley was given.
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Yeah. They pretty much do. You may be determined to close your eyes but rational people including coaching candidates who might otherwise have been interested aren't.

Second of all, just about every new coach inherits a bad situation. If the team was good, the last coach wouldn't have been fired. But yeah, it's the type of paradoxical argument that dumb fans thrive on.
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Are you really and truly that delusional? Seriously? And the amazing part is that you really don't have to be. Coaches fail and get replaced. But most new coaches do NOT inherit a team comprised of the remnants of three consecutive total bust recruiting classes. Go back and look for yourself.

2007- bust. Only 3 guys from that class who should have made up Dooley's SR group in his first year made a significant contribution and one of those guys never actually lived up to billing (Walker).

2008- bust before it even started. There were 4 4* players- Abrams-Ward, Douglas, Walls, and G Willams. Only Walls was around to make a contribution when Dooley arrived. Five of the 3* have contributed.

2009- total bust. This should be the Sr core of this year's team. Gordon and Teague are the only 4/5* players left from that class. Neither helped in '10. Both were shakey in '11 and still are. The only 3* to have made any contribution so far are Z Rogers and Hood.


So in summary, the "best" contribution by his predecessors to Dooley's rebuilding effort was 6 guys from a 35th ranked recruiting class.

"Well our program was in such a mess, Dooley can't win"
"How could you tell how bad it was?"
"Because Dooley can't win"
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No. Because it had a MAC level roster at best.

Your ignorance is profound.

Nevermind that we got even worse in his second year.
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Yeah. Never mind that the team actually became YOUNGER in his second year and ended up playing both BCS title contenders and both SEC CG contenders.
Or that we lost to a Kentucky team with Div II talent.
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What do you think was left of UT's thin roster at that point? One of their two best offensive players was playing with a broken hand. The other was playing with a recently broken thumb and a 102 temperature.

No, it's all because of those two weeks between when Kiffin left and Dooley got hired.
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No. It is because of the 3 failed recruiting classes from 07 to 09.
 
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#332
#332
sjt18 said:
Yeah. They pretty much do. You may be determined to close your eyes but rational people including coaching candidates who might otherwise have been interested aren't.
.
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Ever think some of those guys might not have been interested because of the mess in the AD? You know, the one led by the Athletic Director that got us into this ****ing mess to begin with?
 
#333
#333
emainvol said:
Ever think some of those guys might not have been interested because of the mess in the AD? You know, the one led by the Athletic Director that got us into this ****ing mess to begin with?
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those failing to acknowledge those issues simply don't know what in the hell they're talking about.
 
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#334
#334
emainvol said:
Ever think some of those guys might not have been interested because of the mess in the AD? You know, the one led by the Athletic Director that got us into this ****ing mess to begin with?
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Probably a significant factor. But I knew how this was going to be regardless of who was hired and said so in January '10. Many were arguing that Dooley would get 4 or 5 years because Vol fans knew the mess the program was in. I said at the time that if he didn't get it done by year three he would probably not see year 4... that it was not "fair" but WAS necessary for the program. And... UT fans weren't going to be patient more than two years. UT of all the top tier programs in the SEC can least afford a coach on the hotseat. Tn has no home grown talent. Hot seat coaches aren't going to convince blue chip players to leave home to play for them.

You could argue a win one way or the other if someone else had been coach for the past two years. But those two teams did not have the talent to be much better if at all. No matter who the coach was... there would still be the same people here declaring them a failure and demanding a change.

Completely... totally... predictable.
 
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#335
#335
tvols75 said:
Now we get to this year, and we still have a coach that has not figured out how to win.
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people that you deem negavols wouldnt post on here if posters like you would just admit that dooley is a bad fit at tn, he should have stayed in the wac. i think sunshine pumpers and negavols will all agree that the sec is the greatest conference in the country...with that being said why is it so hard to understand that you need a great coach to compete in it. just cut out the excuses and open your mind to the truth and you will feel a lot better about yourself. everybody makes mistakes..its ok.
 
#336
#336
Dooley either makes it or not based on how he finishes this season. I hope the powers that be hold him to a high enough standard that the program does not start regressing again.
 
#337
#337
sjt18 said:
Probably a significant factor. But I knew how this was going to be regardless of who was hired and said so in January '10. Many were arguing that Dooley would get 4 or 5 years because Vol fans knew the mess the program was in. I said at the time that if he didn't get it done by year three he would probably not see year 4... that it was not "fair" but WAS necessary for the program. UT of all the top tier programs in the SEC can least afford a coach on the hotseat. Tn has no home grown talent. Hot seat coaches aren't going to convince blue chip players to leave home to play for them.

You could argue a win one way or the other if someone else had been coach for the past two years. But those two teams did not have the talent to be much better if at all. No matter who the coach was... there would still be the same people here declaring them a failure and demanding a change.

Completely... totally... predictable.
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Those teams consistently quit, you telling me there isn't a coach out there that could have kept them from quitting?
 
#338
#338
emainvol said:
Those teams consistently quit, you telling me there isn't a coach out there that could have kept them from quitting?
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I do not know that they "quit" rather than being overwhelmed. But that is a subjective and fruitless argument.

They lost. They would have lost the same number of games +/- 2 games regardless of who had coached them. They simply didn't have the talent to beat the teams they lost to with the exception of UK.
 
#340
#340
We should have never fired Phil. He just needed a swift kick in the ass.

I like Dooley, and I will be patient with him. 36 scholarships is hard to rebound from. The offense is looking more like a UT offense. Balanced with deep threats at the corners. Now, if we can just get the "D" some depth and speed. Of course, you can't coach speed.

But, it begs the question.........with all their money, why couldn't the University of Tennessee hire someone proven to be successful as a head coach? Was the job that undesirable? I heard that Chavis turned it down. So, why not David Cutcliffe?? I don't understand.
 
#341
#341
Cutcliffe quite possibly did not want to succeed his close personal friend, Phil Fulmer, and Hamilton, as best I recall, clearly wanted to go outside the UT family.
 
#342
#342
sjt18 said:
I do not know that they "quit" rather than being overwhelmed. But that is a subjective and fruitless argument.

They lost. They would have lost the same number of games +/- 2 games regardless of who had coached them. They simply didn't have the talent to beat the teams they lost to with the exception of UK.
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I will remember this sentiment the next time someone looks at the Georgia game as a sign of improvement. Because they lost.
 
#343
#343
sjt18 said:
Yeah. They pretty much do. You may be determined to close your eyes but rational people including coaching candidates who might otherwise have been interested aren't.

Are you really and truly that delusional? Seriously? And the amazing part is that you really don't have to be. Coaches fail and get replaced. But most new coaches do NOT inherit a team comprised of the remnants of three consecutive total bust recruiting classes. Go back and look for yourself.

2007- bust. Only 3 guys from that class who should have made up Dooley's SR group in his first year made a significant contribution and one of those guys never actually lived up to billing (Walker).

2008- bust before it even started. There were 4 4* players- Abrams-Ward, Douglas, Walls, and G Willams. Only Walls was around to make a contribution when Dooley arrived. Five of the 3* have contributed.

2009- total bust. This should be the Sr core of this year's team. Gordon and Teague are the only 4/5* players left from that class. Neither helped in '10. Both were shakey in '11 and still are. The only 3* to have made any contribution so far are Z Rogers and Hood.


So in summary, the "best" contribution by his predecessors to Dooley's rebuilding effort was 6 guys from a 35th ranked recruiting class.

No. Because it had a MAC level roster at best.

Your ignorance is profound.

Yeah. Never mind that the team actually became YOUNGER in his second year and ended up playing both BCS title contenders and both SEC CG contenders. What do you think was left of UT's thin roster at that point? One of their two best offensive players was playing with a broken hand. The other was playing with a recently broken thumb and a 102 temperature.

No. It is because of the 3 failed recruiting classes from 07 to 09.
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You pretty much just destroyed his post lol.
 
#344
#344
Neylandsmaxims said:
We should have never fired Phil. He just needed a swift kick in the ass.

I like Dooley, and I will be patient with him. 36 scholarships is hard to rebound from. The offense is looking more like a UT offense. Balanced with deep threats at the corners. Now, if we can just get the "D" some depth and speed. Of course, you can't coach speed.

But, it begs the question.........with all their money, why couldn't the University of Tennessee hire someone proven to be successful as a head coach? Was the job that undesirable? I heard that Chavis turned it down. So, why not David Cutcliffe?? I don't understand.
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Nobody wan't to coach a 5-7 team with a BS QB in the best conference in America. Also we lost Arian Foster that year too. Simple as that. That is a death wish for even Nick Saban.
 
#345
#345
Neylandsmaxims said:
But, it begs the question.........with all their money, why couldn't the University of Tennessee hire someone proven to be successful as a head coach? Was the job that undesirable? I heard that Chavis turned it down. So, why not David Cutcliffe?? I don't understand.
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In a word... HAMILTON.
 
#346
#346
What gets me is, that the very people that wanted Coach Fulmer gone are ignoring the very logic that they used to get rid of him, to keep Dooley.

If we would have just been patient and let Fulmer go out on his terms, given him the time to help find his replacement, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in now.

So the question is: are we better off now? We wanted change and we sure as hell got it.
 
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#350
#350
FLSTF-VOL said:
What gets me is, that the very people that wanted Coach Fulmer gone are ignoring the very logic that they used to get rid of him, to keep Dooley.

If we would have just been patient and let Fulmer go out on his terms, given him the time to help find his replacement, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in now.

So the question is: are we better off now? We wanted change and we sure as hell got it.
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This is more true than most realize.

I supported CPF until the UCLA game of the last season. I would have never supported the way Hamilton let him go... and no UT fan (Babs doesn't qualify as she's Vols fan by association) would have let CPF go for Dooley. But it's hard to do worse than Dooley. Fulmer would have won more games in the interim period than CLK and CDD have.
 
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