Vrabel/Heupel

#51
#51
Do you think he’s an elite coach?
What I think is irrelevant because I'm not the one running my mouth about what he will and won't do or is not capable of doing.

I've asked several posters with similar statements as yours the same question and have never gotten a straight answer. Not one. But they'll all call anyone that takes up for Heupel "sunshine pumpers" or tell them they don't know football or some stupid crap and tell them they're fine with mediocrity.

Thinking Heupel is just above average and is an 8-10 win coach and thats his ceiling, but you don't want him fired is something I don't understand.

"Its not the right time" is a BS answer.

Squib @JMSqb11 would trade for Kiffen today. Kiffen was available this last cycle. See where Im going with that. Give me all the reasons we couldn't or wouldn't hire Kiffen then tell me why we would the next "Kiffen".
 
#52
#52
Vrabel is indeed an example of boneheaded management and impatience by the “Titans.”

Tennessee Volunteers football wandered for over a decade in the self-inflicted coaching wasteland between Fulmer and Heupel and most certainly will not fall victim to impatience and stupidity so soon after that debacle.
Sure hope you’re right!
 
#54
#54
It will only work if he goes back Oklahoma. Vrabel is a Patriot through and through.

Also Vrabel walked into a better situation that it looked like. Not taking anything away from the turnaround but he got Drake Maye with a year under his belt and if you look at last year they had 6 games they lost by 1 score. I don't think they were as bad as their 4-13 record.

Also nobody is wanting to fire CJH, nobody with a brain at least.
Agree
 
#57
#57
If Josh lets Knowles do his job, I think they’ll be fine. Fulmer never let Clawson do his.
When Clawson was hired, it was widely theorized that, based on his previous stops, it would take a full season to get his offense up to speed. Clawson had free rein beginning the year. When the offense sputtered and pressure mounted on Fulmer, he intervened to try to save his job. It didn't work. I don't think the personnel fit Clawson's offense or they didn't have the knowledge to execute it or didn't buy into it. In any event, there was enough blame to go around. Clawson, Fulmer, Hamilton, BOT, take your pick.
 
#58
#58
When Clawson was hired, it was widely theorized that, based on his previous stops, it would take a full season to get his offense up to speed. Clawson had free rein beginning the year. When the offense sputtered and pressure mounted on Fulmer, he intervened to try to save his job. It didn't work. I don't think the personnel fit Clawson's offense or they didn't have the knowledge to execute it or didn't buy into it. In any event, there was enough blame to go around. Clawson, Fulmer, Hamilton, BOT, take your pick.
That decision falls on the coach. Making those decisions is what he gets paid to do. Same with Josh. We shall see if it turns out better.
 
#64
#64
Here's my case for Heupel:

1. We have been to the CFP. Had it been 12 teams in 2022, we would have gone then as well. Since it's inception, there have been only 27 programs to make the CFP. We are one of them.

2. He has consistently recruited well. Using On3's team rankings, since Heupel got here, and starting with his first full class in 2022, he has never finished below 15th in Team Recruiting Rankings. This year's class is ranked 9th, his best thus far. He has shown the ability to get 5* recruits, and address needs.

3. He has done well in the transfer portal. He has consistently landed players that have been impactful. McCoy, Hood, Brazzell, Aguilar, Jeudy-Lolly, Norman Lott, Pili, Kitselman, etc.

4. He broke the streak against Alabama, Florida (at the swamp), and nearly has broken it against Georgia.

5. He has significantly reduced the amount of off field issues that we have had. Very rarely does a player get in a fight, or get arrested, or suspended or kicked off for drugs or academics anymore. The culture at Tennessee seems to be a good one, and I think a lot of us forget that it hasn't always been that way.

6. He made the changes that he needed to make this off season. He didn't play the loyalty or stability card. He axed the S&C coach and hired the National Championship winning S&C coach. He fired the defensive coordinator, and hired the defensive coordinator who led the #1 defense just two years ago. AND, if you listen to the Knowles/ Mike Keith interview, you'll hear him say that Heup gave Knowles full ability to bring whoever on that he wanted.

Now, you can counter any of these points with arguments of course. "Sure we went to the CFP, but we got embarrassed." "Sure, he's recruited well, but not as well as Bama or Georgia or Texas." "Sure, he's gotten a few transfers, but he has missed on some really big targets, and we've lost some big players to it." "Sure, he broke the streak, but he still hasn't beaten Georgia." "Sure, they're acting better, but that's likely NIL, not Heup." "Sure, he made changes, but he probably was told he had to."

Whatever. You can say whatever. I personally have some critiques of Heupel too. I wish he had the cutthroat, confident attitude that you see in Cignetti. I wish he just wanted to dominate people every game. I wish he managed the clock better, especially in end of game situations. I hate how his teams have consistently been highly penalized and have lacked on field discipline.

But in the end? We nailed this hire. And I don't think he has reached his ceiling yet. I think he is doing a great job, and we should be grateful for what we got. Because again, we are not entitled to greatness, or even entitled to 10 win seasons. Heupel is building a program, and doing it the right way. I'm not even close to suggesting we get rid of him. Is it perfect? Nope. But it's a heck of a lot better than the decade we had before him. Looking forward to seeing his offense, plus a revamped Jim Knowles defense on the field this year.
 
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#65
#65
His "quitting" was still lightyears better than anything Ran/Callahan was able to produce......

Once again, people think that Vrabel's worst seasons were somehow a debacle...... The idea that Vrabel was thought to be incapable to handle a rebuild is just an asinine stance by some.
I’m not questioning vrabels competency, there was just no way the two sides would have been able to coexist after all the toxicity and burned bridges.
 
#66
#66
We are the highest scoring team averaged over the last 5 years. He's going to be getting us there. He's got to solve the D problem. I think he has. The new DC has two rings and has produced the #1 defense in the nation more than once. He doesn't have to reach that level here to translate into a National championship. We all understand how God awful our D has been. We had 1 year that was an anomaly. Beyond that, hot garbage. Despite that, we are hanging around well within the top 20 teams.

We have a bigger obstacle than coaches. We have a "not enough NIL money" problem. Indiana approved that you can win the national championship by smart shopping in the portal. That's a solid clan. But that solid plan won't hold up to schools with more money. Everybody's trying to figure out the new nil era. Schools are just now figuring out that it's stupid to pay high school kids millions of dollars when they're unproven on the college field. I think the coaches are waking up to the fact that it's smarter pull people who are proven in college football from the portal with the same money. You could almost completely ignore high school recruiting. Because regardless of whether you pick up those two five star players in this year's recruiting, you're probably going to lose at least one of them to the portal.
 
#67
#67
When Clawson was hired, it was widely theorized that, based on his previous stops, it would take a full season to get his offense up to speed. Clawson had free rein beginning the year. When the offense sputtered and pressure mounted on Fulmer, he intervened to try to save his job. It didn't work. I don't think the personnel fit Clawson's offense or they didn't have the knowledge to execute it or didn't buy into it. In any event, there was enough blame to go around. Clawson, Fulmer, Hamilton, BOT, take your pick.
Actually, I don't think Clawson should shoulder any of the blame. He came in and did what he was asked to do. That opening season loss to an awful UCLA team sort of set the tone for the year. From that point forward Fulmer was scrambling to find answers without, in his own words, staying the course. We had a pretty damn good defense that year. 8-4 was achievable even after losing that first game. The offensive commitments we had that year were more suited to Clawson's style and we would have seen improvement on that side of the ball moving forward
 
#68
#68
I agree. So many go straight to ad hominem attacks if a viewpoint they disagree with is expressed. I don't think I have ever attacked any one personally (well, except for uga fans, but they deserve it! ;))

I think Heupel is very close to his Peter Principle point, and I am doubtful at his time if he can pull his game together enough to be a top flight coach. He just strikes me as a 'sloppy' manager/coach in many respects, and his teams reflect it. This season will tell a LOT. I think he feels some heat, and his move to replace Banks with Knowles was solid and needed. Hopefully he can keep 'growing' into the job. He does strike me as a good person and a man of principle, it's just the sloppiness and lack of attention to detail that he has GOT to tighten up.

Time will tell.
You made some valid points. Generally speaking, a highly successful person has certain markers in their lives that can reflect "attention to detail" and personal discipline. He does seem more causal and "sloppy" at times. Now, I've certainly known people who were "sloppy" BUT highly effective and successful. Hopefully from the clear success Josh has shown already in 2022 and 2024 he will be that kind of person. I'm in for the long haul, he's our coach, and I am pulling for him to be GREAT!. What's the ole saying..."you haven't done it until you've done it....then you've done it" would certainly apply to a NC caliber coach. I guess even a world renown heart surgery had to have a first successful surgery 🤷‍♂️.
 
#71
#71
Actually, I don't think Clawson should shoulder any of the blame. He came in and did what he was asked to do. That opening season loss to an awful UCLA team sort of set the tone for the year. From that point forward Fulmer was scrambling to find answers without, in his own words, staying the course. We had a pretty damn good defense that year. 8-4 was achievable even after losing that first game. The offensive commitments we had that year were more suited to Clawson's style and we would have seen improvement on that side of the ball moving forward
Agree 100%.
 
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