Vote for Peyton

#27
#27
droski said:
his stat's speak for themself. 37-2 as a starter, heisman winner, 2 national championships (and a first down away from a 3rd). you could argue he had great talent around him, but peyton and vince had great talent too.
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I disagree...2 of Leinarts stats you quoted are opinions (Heisman and 2 Mythical NCs)...37-2 record is the only cold hard fact you presented.

Was Manning surrounded by great players...or did he elevate the players around him? Wheres Joey Kent? Jay Graham? Marcus Nash? ARe they still playing great?

The only "great" player I can think of that played with PM (1 whole year) is TB Jamal Lewis. Both have won a SB and had pretty darn good college careers.
 
#28
#28
JZVOL said:
More like 1.5 championships but who's counting. He was obviously great but Peyton or Vince did not have the weapons that Leinart did.
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I'd say Peyton, Vince and Matt all played with some pretty darned good teams. VY and Leinart converted that into national championships... With Peyton, well, Florida happened.

BLEEDS ORANGE said:
I get tired of hearing that USC won 2 and almost 3 national championships in a row. Remember LSU???
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Yeah, I remember that LSU fans still complain about sharing a national title. Ungrateful morons. That's why they and Oklahoma are the two programs I dislike the most.

My picks:

Running back: Reggie Bush - Probably the most versatile player the college game has ever seen
Running back: Bo Jackson - Probably the best college football player, ever.
Quarterback: Matt Leinart - All those QBs had great skill, or tons of success, but none had both like Leinart did
Wide Receiver: Braylon Edwards, Calvin Johnson. I went recent, I can't recall any two receivers in history being more physically dominant.
Tight End: Mike Ditka - Easy choice.
Offensive Line: Alan Faneca, Dave Rimington, Jonathon Ogden, Tony Boselli, Willie Roaf

Defensive Line: Dwight Freeney, Reggie White, Rich Glover, Lee Roy Selmon
Linebackers: Mike Singletary, Brian Bosworth, Dick Butkus
Defensive Backs: Ed Reed, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Roy Williams

Place kicker: Mike Nugent
Punter: Dustin Colquitt
Returner: Johnny Rodgers

Head Coach: Pete Carroll

Success-wise, Bear Bryant is the best choice... But things like racism and other misgivings I have with the Bear kind of make me resist voting for him. Other than that, the two choices are Bobby Bowden and Pete Carroll. If PC stays at USC, he should have an even more successful record than Bowden, in a better conference.
 
#30
#30
orangeblooded_2 said:
I went with Barry Sanders at TB and Earl Campbell at FB, with Peyton giving them the ball.
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Barry Sanders is probably the most elusive runner of all-time, that's for sure... I had to go with Bo Jackson in addition to Bush, though. Bo was physically dominant enough that he could have played FB just fine if he wanted to.

And I'm sure your vote for Peyton at QB is in accordance with 90% of the rest of the board.
 
#31
#31
milohimself said:
Barry Sanders is probably the most elusive runner of all-time, that's for sure... I had to go with Bo Jackson in addition to Bush, though. Bo was physically dominant enough that he could have played FB just fine if he wanted to.

And I'm sure your vote for Peyton at QB is in accordance with 90% of the rest of the board.
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hehehehehe Wonder if Mr. Jackson remembers his last game (or half game) against UT? He didnt look physically dominant that day. And if you ever seen Earl Campbell play, you'd see why I put him in at FB. His legs are as big as my torso.

As far as PM, thats fine. I voted on who I thought was the best college QB if all time...not who everybody else was picking.
 
#32
#32
Really? PM is an all-time great, don't get me wrong... I just feel that at least 3-4 QB's on that list were better.
 
#35
#35
droski said:
leinart should be ahead of both of them.
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Leinart can't carry Manning's jock. He played in the Pac 10 with far superior talent surrounding him. Manning played in the SEC where there were other teams with as much talent (and who, oh my Lord...play defense!).

Leinart shouldn't be ahead of Young, much less Manning. Hell, Young single-handedly defeated Leinart's TEAM with far less to work with.
 
#36
#36
GregAmsler said:
Leinart can't carry Manning's jock. He played in the Pac 10 with far superior talent surrounding him. Manning played in the SEC where there were other teams with as much talent (and who, oh my Lord...play defense!).

Leinart shouldn't be ahead of Young, much less Manning. Hell, Young single-handedly defeated Leinart's TEAM with far less to work with.
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ridiculous. Beyond florida, what competition did manning really have? The SEC is far deeper and talented now than it was then. And manning NEVER WON ANYTHING. He's one of my favorite players of all time btw. Clearly a great QB, maybe one of the best ever in the NFL (notice i said nfl not ncaa), but I'd say that you guys winning the national championship the next year with tee martin shows that manning had plenty of talent around him. As for young, as I said earlier Texas had equivalent, probably even better, recruiting than SC from 2001-2005. Particurally from 2001-2002, which are the upperclassmen who played in the game. Texas' defense was VASTLY superior to SCs. No one could possible blame Leinart for that loss. SCs tackling was horrible the entire game and every Texas receiver was wide open the entire game. And let's not forget that SC played the hardest nonconference schedule in the country every year Leinart was there. Frankly I don't think there is a valid argument to not have him above the other two.
 
#37
#37
droski said:
And manning NEVER WON ANYTHING.
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I'm really tired of pointing out the obvious to people, but let me repeat:

INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS DO NOT WIN GAMES OR CHAMPIONSHIPS. TEAMS DO. TENNESSEE never won a National Title (which is mythical anyway) while Manning was there because TENNESSEE could not beat FLORIDA. Period. Peyton Manning was one of many players on the field during those three games. Florida was superior to Tennessee in every other aspect...especially on the sidelines, where Florida had the combination of Spurrier and Stoops. Despite playing against a defense that was basically a future NFL defense being coached by Bob Stoops (one of the best defensive minds to hit the college ranks in the last 20 years), Manning still averaged over 300 yards passing and led his offenses to 29 points per game in those three matchups. Problem is, his defense allowed 44 points per game in those matchups. But of course, that's Manning's fault, right? And since you want to point out that Tee Martin's team won it all the next year, I guess you want to give Tee credit for a defense that held Florida to 17 points that next year. Right?

Gee, I wonder how much Leinart would've held Florida's offense down?! Hell, he might've shut them out according to your logic!

And yes, there was much more talent in the SEC during Manning's years at UT than Leinart saw in the Pac 10. He never got credit for beating a 10-win Georgia team that year that beat Wisconsin in the Outback Bowl. That team was loaded with NFL talent. So was the Auburn team that UT beat in the SEC title game. Oh, and we didn't have much trouble beating the best team from the Pac 10 that year on their home field...UCLA. Leinart never faced defenses week in and week out with the talent of SEC defense..be it 1997 or 2007.
 
#38
#38
GregAmsler said:
I'm really tired of pointing out the obvious to people, but let me repeat:

INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS DO NOT WIN GAMES OR CHAMPIONSHIPS. TEAMS DO. TENNESSEE never won a National Title (which is mythical anyway) while Manning was there because TENNESSEE could not beat FLORIDA. Period. Peyton Manning was one of many players on the field during those three games. Florida was superior to Tennessee in every other aspect...especially on the sidelines, where Florida had the combination of Spurrier and Stoops. Despite playing against a defense that was basically a future NFL defense being coached by Bob Stoops (one of the best defensive minds to hit the college ranks in the last 20 years), Manning still averaged over 300 yards passing and led his offenses to 29 points per game in those three matchups. Problem is, his defense allowed 44 points per game in those matchups. But of course, that's Manning's fault, right? And since you want to point out that Tee Martin's team won it all the next year, I guess you want to give Tee credit for a defense that held Florida to 17 points that next year. Right?

Gee, I wonder how much Leinart would've held Florida's offense down?! Hell, he might've shut them out according to your logic!

And yes, there was much more talent in the SEC during Manning's years at UT than Leinart saw in the Pac 10. He never got credit for beating a 10-win Georgia team that year that beat Wisconsin in the Outback Bowl. That team was loaded with NFL talent. So was the Auburn team that UT beat in the SEC title game. Oh, and we didn't have much trouble beating the best team from the Pac 10 that year on their home field...UCLA. Leinart never faced defenses week in and week out with the talent of SEC defense..be it 1997 or 2007.
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sorry, but when ranking all time QBs, team accomplishments do matter. By your logic, Elway should be the #1 NCAA QB ever because he put up huge numbers even though he never made a bowl game. BTW: how many INTs did manning have against florida? How many of those points were off turnovers?
 
#39
#39
Those who say Manning never beat UF are so ignorant on so many levels. Manning led offenses scored 37, 29 and 20 in each of the 3 games he started. Thats 28 points per game.

Now can any of these einsteins tell me just how PM had anything to do with giving up 62, 35 and 31 points?

Get a clue! (btw, PM's TEAM won the SEC Championship in 1997)
 
#40
#40
orangeblooded_2 said:
Those who say Manning never beat UF are so ignorant on so many levels. Manning led offenses scored 37, 29 and 20 in each of the 3 games he started. Thats 28 points per game.

Now can any of these einsteins tell me just how PM had anything to do with giving up 62, 35 and 31 points?

Get a clue! (btw, PM's TEAM won the SEC Championship in 1997)
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Life's not fair. I watched almost all those games, Peyton wasn't perfect in those games despite what you guys think. Team accomplishments define QBs, fair or not.
 
#41
#41
droski said:
Life's not fair. I watched almost all those games, Peyton wasn't perfect in those games despite what you guys think. Team accomplishments define QBs, fair or not.
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Nobody said he was perfect. Hes just our choice of the greatest QB of all time.
 
#44
#44
droski said:
Life's not fair. I watched almost all those games, Peyton wasn't perfect in those games despite what you guys think. Team accomplishments define QBs, fair or not.
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So if you watched them all, you'll recall the 1996 game when he threw for 492 yards? Do you remember that he threw 4 INT's in that game and 3 of them actually went off the intended receiver's hands before being picked? Again, he can only do his part. He can't catch his own passes, block, play tailback and keep the other team from scoring.

Put it this way, do you think Leinart would've have fared better if he were playing QB for UT from 1994-1997? It wouldn't matter. Spurrier ad Stoops would still be on Florida's sidelines and Fulmer and Chavis (an inexperienced, not yet solid Chavis) would still be on ours.

And yes, Elway was one of the best college QB's of all-time. His teams weren't very good, but he was great. Certainly better than Leinart.
 
#45
#45
GregAmsler said:
So if you watched them all, you'll recall the 1996 game when he threw for 492 yards? Do you remember that he threw 4 INT's in that game and 3 of them actually went off the intended receiver's hands before being picked? Again, he can only do his part. He can't catch his own passes, block, play tailback and keep the other team from scoring.

Put it this way, do you think Leinart would've have fared better if he were playing QB for UT from 1994-1997? It wouldn't matter. Spurrier ad Stoops would still be on Florida's sidelines and Fulmer and Chavis (an inexperienced, not yet solid Chavis) would still be on ours.

And yes, Elway was one of the best college QB's of all-time. His teams weren't very good, but he was great. Certainly better than Leinart.
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Elway never even led his team to a bowl game! in the lowly pac-10! <sarcasm>. All he had to do was win a lousy 3 or 4 pac-10 games. Particurally since they played a easy nonconfernece schedule. And he didn't do it ONCE. And he did have some decent talent around him.

I have no idea how leinart would have fared, that's impossible to predict. I did see him come up clutch in mutliple situations. I don't think this is a situation where you could put in any old qb and get the same results. But hey this is what the offseason is for right? Pointless arguments. :thumbsup:
 
#46
#46
Leinart was still part of an SC team that won plenty of big games outside of the Pac-10... Auburn, Michigan, Notre Dame (three times), Virginia Tech and Oklahoma.

There's no denying Peyton's stats, and I still agree that he is among the all-time greats. He was a machine at UT. He and Matt Leinart both had great teams around them. Leinart was also a machine, though, and has two national championships to go with it. I know Tennessee had Florida in the way, but Leinart's SC teams still tore through some very highly-regarded squads.

Really, it's a wash. Apples and oranges, different times, different conferences. A lot of you guys say Peyton's the all-time best, I say Leinart is ahead of him... Nobody is right or wrong.
 
#47
#47
As for pro careers I'm worried for Mr. Leinart. He might have the best wide outs in the league but he is still with the Cardinals. He looked very good at times last year but did I mention he plays for the Cardinals?
 
#48
#48
JZVOL said:
As for pro careers I'm worried for Mr. Leinart. He might have the best wide outs in the league but he is still with the Cardinals. He looked very good at times last year but did I mention he plays for the Cardinals?
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Not to mention that offensive line? I mean, it's not the Raiders, but still... It's the Cardinals.
 
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