Vols Players form Own NIL Club

#51

strkr

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#51
This is a grass roots effort by the players themselves. And they're sharing the funds equally.

It's almost like they just made themselves into a co-op. Making sure even the 3rd string walk-on offensive guard most no one ever heard of gets a little bit.

Spyre can keep hitting the mountaintops while this effort fills in the valleys a little bit. I can even envisage the big-$$ Spyre contract dudes joining this club but forgoing their share of the funds, so the guys without a Spyre contract get a little more.

Sounds great to me.

Go Vols!
Oh no nick gonna bitch about this.
 
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#52

GetYouSomeofThat

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#52
For starters, coaches like teachers and administrative staff are paid positions; forget the coaching salary side issue. Students are the people who pay to go to the school and learn; that education in turn is what makes the students employable. The students who play sports at a school are still students - not paid employees ... except everybody seems to forget the tuition, room and board, cost of attendance, tutoring, and all the other stuff they are provided if on scholarship - stuff that no other mere student would even come close to receiving. For some of us, we did receive compensation for jobs performed such as graduate assistantships; but by and large most students pay to go to school and aren't compensated regardless of any income the school as an institution receives from student activity. There's no reason that a student athlete should be treated differently.

As far as NIL, remember this really all started with electronic games using player likeness. There were basically two ways to go with that. Either compensate the player, or not attempt to benefit from a player's ability and popularity to sell products. The second would have been better; the first simply makes the issue of commercialism and amateur athletics into a bigger monster.

According to periodic information, most schools regardless of income from their athletic programs lose money on athletics. There is a lot of overhead in maintaining athletic facilities and managing facilities during events - think about the percentage of time that Neyland is empty space with no real purpose vs the few days per year that games are held there. The lawn still has to be mowed, watered, maintained - same with the stadium. It's been a while since I was a UT student, but at least then the stadium did have dorm rooms - not the better facilities that athletes had, though. You have to quit looking at income and look at profit - real profit after all expenses are paid for facilities and student athlete expenses.

Of course students should be allowed to work on the side. I did, and I had the GI Bill for another job that didn't pay very well - and could be somewhat hazardous to your health. Student athletes can always make the decision whether to play sports or work on the side if the two are incompatible - it's a choice. Perhaps we should all recognize the fact that the NFL and other professional sports are the problem; they should have their own farm leagues or whatever and stop preying on college sports as feeders. In lieu of that then we simply need to recognize that hard work as a student may lead to a very lucrative career as a professional athlete. How is that different from the many monetarily uncompensated hours that professionals like doctors, engineers, and others spend in college to qualify them for a career after college? Education in the classroom, in the lab, or on a field is an investment that hopefully leads to future reward.
Serious questions;

-How will NIL hurt your fan experience?

-How will these young athletes making extra cash hurt their on field play?

- How will NIL hurt society or your community?

- Do you believe that everyone shoild be able to legally make extramoney aslong as there is no conflict of interest with their primary employer?
 
#53

WoodsmanVol

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#53
Doesn’t Spyre already have a tier system for memberships where there are player obligations they have to meet and you get access to as a member for that particular tier? Thought I saw that. Seems like they overlap each other if I remember correctly but can’t find it now to confirm.
Dunno, I just shared what I saw. The NIL confuses me aplenty, so I just waddle along for the ride.
 
#55

VolinMichigan

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#55
Ha: This is ridiculous. Players forming a club aimed at soliciting cash from fans. Gee, I could have sworn that the fans supported the team by buying tickets to the game--and, now, through merch purchases. College football getting crass and absurd. Somebody remind the players and the activists who claim that athletes are "exploited" that a free college education plus all the rest of the perks/benefits of being a P5 revenue-sport athlete are valued a WAY more than $200K. Most college students are heavily in debt.
I missed the part where it said participation is mandatory? How does this affect your ability to enjoy watching UT football? Come on, man.
 
#56

VolinMichigan

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#56
I've been on teams with haves and have-nots. And in my experience, it doesn't work the way your highlighted concerns are pointing.

If you get along as teammates, if you like each other, you tend not to blame each other for the one guy getting all the attention and support. You chalk it up to the system, or circumstances, or 'that's just how things go.' You don't start hating your buddy because of it, just because he scored. Plus, he usually IS the most talented on the team, or the QB, or the team captain, or all three, and so there's a bit of logic to it all too.

I don't think there will be any dissension from NIL, any more than there ever has been about unequal distribution of benefits. Which have always flowed (not just $$, but attention and academic support and dates and on and on and on).
It’s as if the anti-NIL proponents forgot that the big recruits and star players were still getting paid regularly, just under the table.
 
#57

WoodsmanVol

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#57
Serious questions;
-How will NIL hurt your fan experience?
-How will these young athletes making extra cash hurt their on field play?
- How will NIL hurt society or your community?
- Do you believe that everyone shoild be able to legally make extramoney aslong as there is no conflict of interest with their primary employer?
Forget it, man, we got some folks who are all "Hail Capitalism!" except when it benefits certain other factions of society, Especially when exploiters and getting exploited in return. Then the wail sounds.
1659107252117.png
 
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#58

GetYouSomeofThat

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#58
Forget it, man, we got some folks who are all "Hail Capitalism!" except when it benefits certain other factions of society, Especially when exploiters and getting exploited in return. Then the wail sounds.
View attachment 476141
I guess i just dont see a downside.


Even though many fear kids getting into trouble with all that money (and some will but havent some always) i think the money will help some keep theor noses clean due to the fact they will.lose more than a scholarship..

Overall it will be a net positive for UT athletics IMO.
 
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#59

AM64

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#59
Serious questions;

-How will NIL hurt your fan experience?

-How will these young athletes making extra cash hurt their on field play?

- How will NIL hurt society or your community?

- Do you believe that everyone shoild be able to legally make extramoney aslong as there is no conflict of interest with their primary employer?
I guess my main objections to all this would be that college athletes aren't and were never intended to be professional, and too many people fail to remember what the concept of amateur sorts is all about. There are any number of professional athletes and other "performers/entertainers" who don't handle excessive compensation well; I certainly can't see college age kids doing any better. Too much too soon. Seems like with many other aspects of modern life that college athletics has lost touch with all sense of reality and common sense. Throwing money at it won't improve that.

Sure there's no problem with employment on the side if there's no conflict with primary employment; college athletes aren't employees, and they have the option to participate in amateur athletics - there's nothing forcing them to do so.
 
#63

LSU-SIU

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#63
Wait until players starting sitting out until they get a better NIL deal
NIL was mostly rendered meaningless once the Supreme Court decision came down, now its about compensation in any form. The lawsuits are only beginning and at the end of the day these guys/girls or the confused types are free agents every year and maybe every day. I mentioned a few years ago, there is nothing stopping both teams from refusing to hike the ball in the National Championship game on live TV. Without contracts, enforcement is up to the players.
 
#64

kcvols1

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#64
NIL was mostly rendered meaningless once the Supreme Court decision came down, now its about compensation in any form. The lawsuits are only beginning and at the end of the day these guys/girls or the confused types are free agents every year and maybe every day. I mentioned a few years ago, there is nothing stopping both teams from refusing to hike the ball in the National Championship game on live TV. Without contracts, enforcement is up to the players.
So…

The workers control the means of production?
 
#65

LSU-SIU

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#65
So…

The workers control the means of production?
Well, as a generalization.... all parties control the means of production to a degree. In this instance, there is no ability to command performance as there are no contracts.

Eventually, the players will figure out they have more power as a group whether its an official union or not.
 
#66

VFL-82-JP

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#66
Well, as a generalization.... all parties control the means of production to a degree. In this instance, there is no ability to command performance as there are no contracts.

Eventually, the players will figure out they have more power as a group whether its an official union or not.
Folks try too hard to generalize concepts, especially when talking about political and socio-economic philosophies.

"Controlling the means of production" is simply this: if you work as a blacksmith, the means of production are a hammer, and an anvil. And maybe a ventilated shop in which they are used. The guy who owns the anvil, the shop, and the hammers, he has a lot of power. The power to hire and fire workers to use his gear, for instance. The power to set prices for the products. And so on.

Now, those workers, they have the power to control their own labor. But that's it. They do not, in any way, control the means of production.

That's what Karl Marx was all in a tizzy about. He thought that was unfair. He thought the workers ought to be given control over not only their labor, but the means of production as well.

The modern college football equivalent would be players arguing that they ought to be part owners of the stadiums, locker rooms, and (very importantly) ticket offices. That they ought to share in ownership of the means of production.

Of course, that's utter horse hooey. The #1 way to destroy an economy is to penalize the folks who have the means of getting businesses going. Every time it has been tried at large scale in history, public (worker) ownership of the means of production has utterly failed.

At the local level, it tends to work okay, in a healthy mix with capitalism. Farmer Co-Ops and church societies, for instance.

My, we've gotten off-topic.

Go Vols!
 
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#67

LSU-SIU

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#67
The modern college football equivalent would be players arguing that they ought to be part owners of the stadiums, locker rooms, and (very importantly) ticket offices. That they ought to share in ownership of the means of production.

Of course, that's utter horse hooey. The #1 way to destroy an economy is to penalize the folks who have the means of getting businesses going. Every time it has been tried at large scale in history, public (worker) ownership of the means of production has utterly failed.
That is talking government mandate not one that is part of bargaining powers. Its not up to me what the players do or get, generally speaking but if they ever understood how much power they have collectively... in theory, they have much more potential benefit. Working as single units involve much less bargaining power.

Of course, I think the wheels are going to fall off this bus (NCAA) - I actually said it about 10 years ago on the forum (and why). In the meantime, its funny as hell listening to Lane Kiffin try and convince people about college salary caps. :D You know they are way behind when all they got is Lane trying to figure out a legal strategy.

Lane Kiffin has about as much chance of figuring any of this out as Nick Saban has of finding a suit to fit him at the Big and Tall store.
 
#68

The Original Fade

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#68
Will you come and mow my yard for free the rest of summer, this heat is just awful? I'll give you a free sandwich and provide the mower gas.
Interesting analogy. Just like college athletes, I can freely turn down the deal with no repercussions. College athletes aren’t forced to come, they come for the opportunity and have now demanded the change the rules once on campus with NIL.
With your analogy, that would be akin to showing up to your house to mow with only gas and a sandwich agreed on, then demanding to be paid after I mowed.
 
#69

VFL-82-JP

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#69
That is talking government mandate not one that is part of bargaining powers.
Nope.

I wasn't talking about government at all. Go back and read my response again. Every actor I mentioned was non-governmental. The blacksmith...his workers...the players...Farmer Co-ops...churches...even Karl Marx. No government in any of that.

Socialism can be implemented by governments, yes. But that's almost always a disaster. It goes less bad, and can even be beneficial to those involved, when socialism is instead implemented at a local level, by the people themselves, on their own, within the framework of a capitalist economy. Again: think Farmers' Co-Op.

The lads putting together this "NIL Club" is a perfect example. They are organizing the way a Co-op does. On their own, no government involvement, just gathering together to share benefits.

Nothing to do with governements. Thank goodness.

Go Vols!
 
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#70

37620VOL

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#70
Interesting analogy. Just like college athletes, I can freely turn down the deal with no repercussions. College athletes aren’t forced to come, they come for the opportunity and have now demanded the change the rules once on campus with NIL.
With your analogy, that would be akin to showing up to your house to mow with only gas and a sandwich agreed on, then demanding to be paid after I mowed.
Good analogy but you failed the landing. It's more accurately like showing up to your house to mow as agreed upon, having your neighbor offer a beer thereafter, and you have the gall to say you can't accept that beer because that wasn't a part of our deal.
 
#71

kcvols1

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#71
Nope.

I wasn't talking about government at all. Go back and read my response again. Every actor I mentioned was non-governmental. The blacksmith...his workers...the players...Farmer Co-ops...churches...even Karl Marx. No government in any of that.

Socialism can be implemented by governments, yes. But that's almost always a disaster. It goes less bad, and can even be beneficial to those involved, when socialism is instead implemented at a local level, by the people themselves, on their own, within the framework of a capitalist economy. Again: think Farmers' Co-Op.

The lads putting together this "NIL Club" is a perfect example. They are organizing the way a Co-op does. On their own, no government involvement, just gathering together to share benefits.

Nothing to do with governements. Thank goodness.

Go Vols!
Or Harley Davidson maybe?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/deanze...-wall-street-agrees-that-ownership-works/amp/

Sure, we’re far afield, but not more so than Lane Kiffin talking about salary caps where nobody is drawing salary.
 
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#72

VolArmy74

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#72
Interesting analogy. Just like college athletes, I can freely turn down the deal with no repercussions. College athletes aren’t forced to come, they come for the opportunity and have now demanded the change the rules once on campus with NIL.
With your analogy, that would be akin to showing up to your house to mow with only gas and a sandwich agreed on, then demanding to be paid after I mowed.
Nope. The person I was responding too was saying college players were in the wrong for wanting more of the money they generate and they should be satisfied with the crumbs they were getting for years, even mentioning free meals at the training table as if that's some great benefit. If he's satisfied with people getting way less than they deserve and things food is great compensation, I'd love for him to mow my yard in exchange for sandwiches.

The reality is, it takes a miserable son of a gun to try and tell another person that they shouldn't want or expect to get as much as they can for their labor.
 
#73

Volmac2022

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#73
NIL is great for the players however they shouldn't get a scholarship. That scholarship should go to a non athlete student. These athletes cried over their coaches making millions and making the colleges millions but they failed to realize a P5 school has over 300 student athletes on a free ride plus however many regular students having a free ride.
 
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#75

SpaceCoastVol

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#75
NIL is great for the players however they shouldn't get a scholarship. That scholarship should go to a non athlete student. These athletes cried over their coaches making millions and making the colleges millions but they failed to realize a P5 school has over 300 student athletes on a free ride plus however many regular students having a free ride.
Yep. They should have to pay the equivalent of their scholarship
 

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