Vols on Penn State Board

[Weezer]

But we don't know this. The NCAA write up today basically says they were "disgusted" by what went on and needed to do something as it was just wrong. The very same argument could be made at Arkansas. I submit that a cover up did happen. I submit that EVERYONE on the staff and in the AD had to know that the coach had a girlfriend. He did try to cover it up, admittedly by himself, but a cover up none the less. What the NCAA has said is that they are more morally disturbed by the actions at one university than at another. Now, having said that, I am too, but I am not the agency handing out punishment when they WANT too and not getting involved when it isn't a headline. If you are going to be a regulatory agency for coaching morals, get involved with all of it, not just where it benefits the resume of the agency.

PSU and Arkansas in no way compare with each other. What the PSU AD did was cover up a crime. Let's say the Arkansas AD knew Petrino had a gf, it doesn't violate any laws. Covering up a crime is against the law and can be constituted as unethical behavior. Committing adultery is not against the law and therfore cannot be constituted as unethical without employing a Christian ethos. That would be a no-no as athletes and coaches and any other staff could come from other religions.

When a violation occurs, a member institute normally imposes self-sanctions and the NCAA comes along and decides if that's enough or if further punishment is warranted. Obviously, firing Petrino was enough.

I fail to see how the NCAA benefits from this. The entire NCAA football system has taken a black eye over Sandusky. No one comes out smelling like roses.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX9MCkbirdE&feature=related[/youtube]

know anyone like this???????????

 

[ericpVOL4LIFE]

as a volunteer fan i feel for the penn state fans . i take great pride in the tradition of tennessee as im sure the fans at penn state take pride in their tradition and they are truly who are being punished, the ncaa has done what every parent of an athlete would expect . i think the message is clear , 0 tolerance and i agree . im sure players will be transferring and i hope we get the chance to get some good ones.excited and cant wait to see our 2012 vols hit the field

 

[NC_Orange]

But we don't know this. The NCAA write up today basically says they were "disgusted" by what went on and needed to do something as it was just wrong. The very same argument could be made at Arkansas. I submit that a cover up did happen. I submit that EVERYONE on the staff and in the AD had to know that the coach had a girlfriend. He did try to cover it up, admittedly by himself, but a cover up none the less. What the NCAA has said is that they are more morally disturbed by the actions at one university than at another. Now, having said that, I am too, but I am not the agency handing out punishment when they WANT too and not getting involved when it isn't a headline. If you are going to be a regulatory agency for coaching morals, get involved with all of it, not just where it benefits the resume of the agency.

Outside entity do anything for you. By allowing him there, according to NCAA bylaws, they were responsible.6.4 Responsibilities for Actions of Outside Entities.

6.4.1 Independent Agencies or Organizations.

An institution's "responsibility" for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program shall include responsibility for the acts of an independent agency, corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization when a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration, or an athletics department staff member, has knowledge that such agency, corporate entity or other organization is promoting the institution's intercollegiate athletics program.

6.4.2 Representatives of Athletics Interests.

An institution's "responsibility" for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program shall include responsibility for the acts of individuals, a corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization when a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration or an athletics department staff member has knowledge or should have knowledge that such an individual, corporate entity or other organization:

(a) Has participated in or is a member of an agency or organization as described in Constitution 6.4.1;

(b) Has made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that institution;

(c) Has been requested by the athletics department staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes or is assisting in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes;

(d) Has assisted or is assisting in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes; or

(e) Is otherwise involved in promoting the institution's athletics program.

6.4.2.1 Agreement to Provide Benefit or Privilege.

Any agreement between an institution (or any organization that promotes, assists or augments in any way the athletics interests of the member institution, including those identified per Constitution 6.4.1) and an individual who, for any consideration, is or may be entitled under the terms of the agreement to any benefit or privilege relating to the institution's athletics program, shall contain a specific clause providing that any such benefit or privilege may be withheld if the individual has engaged in conduct that is determined to be a violation of NCAA legislation. The clause shall provide for the withholding of the benefit or privilege from a party to the agreement and any other person who may be entitled to a benefit or privilege under the terms of the agreement.

6.4.2.2 Retention of Identity as "Representative."

Any individual participating in the activities set forth in Constitution 6.4.2 shall be considered a "representative of the institution's athletics interests," and once so identified as a representative, it is presumed the person retains that identity.

 

[82_VOL_83]

PSU and Arkansas in no way compare with each other. What the PSU AD did was cover up a crime. Let's say the Arkansas AD knew Petrino had a gf, it doesn't violate any laws. Covering up a crime is against the law and can be constituted as unethical behavior. Committing adultery is not against the law and therfore cannot be constituted as unethical without employing a Christian ethos. That would be a no-no as athletes and coaches and any other staff could come from other religions.

When a violation occurs, a member institute normally imposes self-sanctions and the NCAA comes along and decides if that's enough or if further punishment is warranted. Obviously, firing Petrino was enough.

I fail to see how the NCAA benefits from this. The entire NCAA football system has taken a black eye over Sandusky. No one comes out smelling like roses.

The only problem with your logic is, the NCAA doesn't punish criminal activity, our judicial system does. When you keep referring to violations and probation, you are confusing what happened at PSU (multiple heinous felonies) with what you are used to as an NCAA violation (paying kids to play or inviting them to bar-b-ques). PSU and Ark are MUCH closer related than you will ever admit. The problem is a crime was committed in BOTH situations. Admittedly, one is in no way comparable to the other, however, a crime was committed. The NCAA CHOSE to hammer PSU and CHOSE to do nothing to Ark or to Petrino. The NCAA CHOSE to persecute PSU because it got much facetime and good press. It would have gotten nothing from hammering Petrino. I don't know if you are married or not...probably not. But let me tell you, adultery IS against the law in many states and is considered unethical in EVERY culture that has a marriage custom. Petrino also committed a crime by lying about an accident and asking the officer that picked him up to cover it up. If the NCAA is going to practice ethical justice, they need to practice it in all cases, not just ones that get them good rep and free TV time.

Bottom line is, the NCAA needs to stay out of criminal issues and let the judicial system handle it. BTW, I would have been perfectly agreeable with 5 years of probation and the fine. That would have put PSU in a tough position, set their program back and yet still not have penalized every student athlete that chooses to stay (or is required to stay as all sports weren't given the option to leave) at the school.

Also, with all your high and mighty blasting of Joe Pa since you mentioned him personally a few posts ago, what about the GA that saw the guy in the first place. And, what about the janitor that saw him and said nothing? I only seeing you mentioning Joe Pa by name. If you are being the great spreader of equal justice for all, where is your accusations of these guys. Maybe they should fine the custodial department about a zillion dollars and have PSU get rid of 20% or so of it's janitorial staff? It is all too obvious that you have an issue with PSU and Joe Pa in particular. Spread the love (or in your case hatred) dude.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Outside entity do anything for you. By allowing him there, according to NCAA bylaws, they were responsible.6.4 Responsibilities for Actions of Outside Entities.

6.4.1 Independent Agencies or Organizations.

An institution's "responsibility" for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program shall include responsibility for the acts of an independent agency, corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization when a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration, or an athletics department staff member, has knowledge that such agency, corporate entity or other organization is promoting the institution's intercollegiate athletics program.

6.4.2 Representatives of Athletics Interests.

An institution's "responsibility" for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program shall include responsibility for the acts of individuals, a corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization when a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration or an athletics department staff member has knowledge or should have knowledge that such an individual, corporate entity or other organization:

(a) Has participated in or is a member of an agency or organization as described in Constitution 6.4.1;

(b) Has made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that institution;

(c) Has been requested by the athletics department staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes or is assisting in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes;

(d) Has assisted or is assisting in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes; or

(e) Is otherwise involved in promoting the institution's athletics program.

6.4.2.1 Agreement to Provide Benefit or Privilege.

Any agreement between an institution (or any organization that promotes, assists or augments in any way the athletics interests of the member institution, including those identified per Constitution 6.4.1) and an individual who, for any consideration, is or may be entitled under the terms of the agreement to any benefit or privilege relating to the institution's athletics program, shall contain a specific clause providing that any such benefit or privilege may be withheld if the individual has engaged in conduct that is determined to be a violation of NCAA legislation. The clause shall provide for the withholding of the benefit or privilege from a party to the agreement and any other person who may be entitled to a benefit or privilege under the terms of the agreement.

6.4.2.2 Retention of Identity as "Representative."

Any individual participating in the activities set forth in Constitution 6.4.2 shall be considered a "representative of the institution's athletics interests," and once so identified as a representative, it is presumed the person retains that identity.

The only problem with your copy and pasted post was that he wasn't promoting PSU, he was promoting an outside interest. I don't see where he falls under the auspices of your rule above. He had his own interest and was allowed usage of the athletic facilities wholly owned by PSU and not the NCAA. He had nothing, as far as I can determine, to do with the PSU intercollegiate athletic organization after he was retired. The cover up happened post 1998 and he was not "an outside entity" as he didn't reportedly have anything to do with "promoting the program". He was there for his own interests. The janitor was as much of an outside entity as he was.

I don't think this is over. I think there will be lawsuits filed against the NCAA over this. ALL NCAA participating members have to be shaking in their collective boots over this punishment. No investigation, no listing of violations and broken rules, but the hammer was dropped and dropped hard. Just because "everyone agrees that the crime was horrible" doesn't justify ANY agency over stepping it's bounds and hammering anyone including you and me.

 

[VolunteerTitan3]

Butt hurt is just inappropriate at this point! Butt totally funny!

 

[VolDaddy60]

The players at PSU have been through so much within the past season, including the death of their head coach, and I know what the higher ups did at that organization did was wrong. However the NCAA had no right to punish the football team, especially when the scandal was out of the players hands. If the scandal had involved the players, thats when the NCAA can step in and pass judgement. With it involving the higher ups of the school overall, just leave the kids alone and let the law take care of it.

 

[volfan2024]

PSU harbored a pedophile.

They should all be in jail.

 

[NC_Orange]

The only problem with your copy and pasted post was that he wasn't promoting PSU, he was promoting an outside interest. I don't see where he falls under the auspices of your rule above. He had his own interest and was allowed usage of the athletic facilities wholly owned by PSU and not the NCAA. He had nothing, as far as I can determine, to do with the PSU intercollegiate athletic organization after he was retired. The cover up happened post 1998 and he was not "an outside entity" as he didn't reportedly have anything to do with "promoting the program". He was there for his own interests. The janitor was as much of an outside entity as he was.

I don't think this is over. I think there will be lawsuits filed against the NCAA over this. ALL NCAA participating members have to be shaking in their collective boots over this punishment. No investigation, no listing of violations and broken rules, but the hammer was dropped and dropped hard. Just because "everyone agrees that the crime was horrible" doesn't justify ANY agency over stepping it's bounds and hammering anyone including you and me.

And you don't think they would parade a prospect in/near his office, introduce him as one of the great PS coaches and let him give the prospect the warm and fuzzies? No pun intended. Why else would they give him an office and use of the facilities. Even in retirement I feel he was still "connected" making him an outside entity via his charity.

 

[mpfvol]

sorry but i feel no pity on psu i wish they would have gave them a 5 year death penalty plus all the other stuff what a bunch of bull $#!@ they gave smu the death penalty for some car gifts this was lil boy molesting get real

 

[Weezer]

The only problem with your logic is, the NCAA doesn't punish criminal activity, our judicial system does. When you keep referring to violations and probation, you are confusing what happened at PSU (multiple heinous felonies) with what you are used to as an NCAA violation (paying kids to play or inviting them to bar-b-ques). PSU and Ark are MUCH closer related than you will ever admit. The problem is a crime was committed in BOTH situations. Admittedly, one is in no way comparable to the other, however, a crime was committed. The NCAA CHOSE to hammer PSU and CHOSE to do nothing to Ark or to Petrino. The NCAA CHOSE to persecute PSU because it got much facetime and good press. It would have gotten nothing from hammering Petrino. I don't know if you are married or not...probably not. But let me tell you, adultery IS against the law in many states and is considered unethical in EVERY culture that has a marriage custom. Petrino also committed a crime by lying about an accident and asking the officer that picked him up to cover it up. If the NCAA is going to practice ethical justice, they need to practice it in all cases, not just ones that get them good rep and free TV time.

Bottom line is, the NCAA needs to stay out of criminal issues and let the judicial system handle it. BTW, I would have been perfectly agreeable with 5 years of probation and the fine. That would have put PSU in a tough position, set their program back and yet still not have penalized every student athlete that chooses to stay (or is required to stay as all sports weren't given the option to leave) at the school.

Also, with all your high and mighty blasting of Joe Pa since you mentioned him personally a few posts ago, what about the GA that saw the guy in the first place. And, what about the janitor that saw him and said nothing? I only seeing you mentioning Joe Pa by name. If you are being the great spreader of equal justice for all, where is your accusations of these guys. Maybe they should fine the custodial department about a zillion dollars and have PSU get rid of 20% or so of it's janitorial staff? It is all too obvious that you have an issue with PSU and Joe Pa in particular. Spread the love (or in your case hatred) dude.

No doubt the GA should have acted. Read my posts and you'll see I already said that. I'm unfamiliar with the janitor part, but if he witnessed something, he should have acted. The reason I come down so hard on JoePa is because he more than anyone had the power to stop this. I have friends from that area. Even before this happenned they told me of the God-like status of JoePa. I didn't understand what they were saying until the students went beserk. I have no issue with PSU. They have accepted their punishment and realized their failures in the Sandusky matter. I do have issue with those who covered this up, most especially JoePa who was the most powerful individual on that campus. Do I hate them? No, I don't, but I find their actions despicable. Go ahead and justify them covering up for a child molester. Oh wait, you in no way condone their actions yet here you are standing up for them. Way to be self-righteous.

PSU and Arkansas are in no way similar. You are delusional in thinking that. I try, I honestly try, to stay civil with my posts, but you are way off base. Several posters have explained to you why this was an NCAA issue. You refuse to believe them because you are conducting your own "witch hunt" against the NCAA. Isn't that what you accused the NCAA of doing? The fact that PSU willfully submitted to these sanctions blow any arguement you have out of the water. They recognize the NCAA's authority. It doesn't matter if you do or not, they do and have. Until the university itself stands up and challenges these sanctions, it doesn't matter how much *****ing and crying PSU fans, alumni, and supporters do because it won't change a damn thing.

I am not, let me repeat that so you can't reinterpret my thoughts into something else, NOT a fan of the NCAA. Do I believe they play favorites? Hell yeah I do. Do I think they took action in this matter for publicity purposes? To some degree, yes, I think they had to. I don't think they had a choice. It had to be addressed because it was dragging all of college football through the mud. Do I feel they overstepped any boundaries? No, I do not. The AD covered up a felony on university property. They administer punishment to ADs that act inappropriately. The individuals will face criminal charges in a court of law, but punishing the actions and the lack of control that happenned in this case are matters the NCAA can punish. Do I feel the penalty was too harsh? Hell no. You cannot do enough to protect a child. Will this deter sexual predators? No, but that wasn't the issue the NCAA was addressing. Will it deter future ADs from putting their programs before a child's well-being? It damn well should. Looking at what happenned to PSU should scare the hell out of them and make them think twice about making the same mistake. That's what punishments are supposed to do.

As I've already said, more than once, it is unfortunate that the student-athletes get caught in the crossfire, but the reponsibility for that does not fall on the NCAA, it falls on the men these student-athletes put their faith in. They were let down by the grad asst who failed to act. They were let down by the AD who failed to act. More than anyone, they were let down by JoePa, the most powerful figure on that campus(and if you need proof just check out all the student rallies supporting him still) who failed to act. The NCAA did what it had to do to protect the integrity of college football, and if you think they took enjoyment from it, you are out of your mind. No one wants to tear down an icon like JoePa on a whim. The NCAA has not benefitted from this in any way, shape, or form. If anything, they have been embarassed by it. All of college football took it on the chin because of the actions of a serial child rapist and the men who chose to cover it up.

 

[tallyho]

With Penn States 1998 - 2011 wins being vacated,
they now move from 7th on the all time win list to off the top ten list.
We move from #9 to #8. PSU now has 698 wins. We were # 9 with 788 wins but our hated USC is #10 with 784 wins. Should we stumble in the near future, USC will pass us up in all time wins. So, we are now #8 and USC #9.
Also, our bowl record was 25 wins - 24 losses with a total of 49 bowl games played. Now the 2004 PSU bowl game that we lost because Arian Foster fumbled, will count as a victory for us. Bringing our record to 26 wins - 23 loses and a total of 49 bowl games played.
I doudt we get any PSU transfers. Most of those guys are Yankee's and weren't interested in U.T. during their first recruitment.
USC can

Not correct. The wins were vacated not forfieted therefore they do not get reversed and go as a win to the teams that lost to PSU during the time period in the NCAA sanctions.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[pharmDvol11]

yeah PSU may or may not have gotten what they deserve. I think they did.
But the last thing I want to do is rub there face in it. I know there were several fans of opposing schools just laughing at us after the CLK debacle and I swore I would never return the favor.

That is of course if Saban gets pulled over with a bunch of hookers I might change my mind

+1

 

[Weezer]

The only problem with your logic is, the NCAA doesn't punish criminal activity, our judicial system does. When you keep referring to violations and probation, you are confusing what happened at PSU (multiple heinous felonies) with what you are used to as an NCAA violation (paying kids to play or inviting them to bar-b-ques). PSU and Ark are MUCH closer related than you will ever admit. The problem is a crime was committed in BOTH situations. Admittedly, one is in no way comparable to the other, however, a crime was committed. The NCAA CHOSE to hammer PSU and CHOSE to do nothing to Ark or to Petrino. The NCAA CHOSE to persecute PSU because it got much facetime and good press. It would have gotten nothing from hammering Petrino. I don't know if you are married or not...probably not. But let me tell you, adultery IS against the law in many states and is considered unethical in EVERY culture that has a marriage custom. Petrino also committed a crime by lying about an accident and asking the officer that picked him up to cover it up. If the NCAA is going to practice ethical justice, they need to practice it in all cases, not just ones that get them good rep and free TV time.

Bottom line is, the NCAA needs to stay out of criminal issues and let the judicial system handle it. BTW, I would have been perfectly agreeable with 5 years of probation and the fine. That would have put PSU in a tough position, set their program back and yet still not have penalized every student athlete that chooses to stay (or is required to stay as all sports weren't given the option to leave) at the school.

Also, with all your high and mighty blasting of Joe Pa since you mentioned him personally a few posts ago, what about the GA that saw the guy in the first place. And, what about the janitor that saw him and said nothing? I only seeing you mentioning Joe Pa by name. If you are being the great spreader of equal justice for all, where is your accusations of these guys. Maybe they should fine the custodial department about a zillion dollars and have PSU get rid of 20% or so of it's janitorial staff? It is all too obvious that you have an issue with PSU and Joe Pa in particular. Spread the love (or in your case hatred) dude.

FTR, I googled which states adultery is illegal in. Arkansas is not on the list so he did not commit a crime. I also checked to see if any criminal charges were brought against him. No reference to charges ever being filed. So your accusations Petrino broke the law hold no weight. Also, the Arkansas AD was upfront about everything and in no way attempted to cover it up. As to whether adultery is ethical or not, that's up to individuals to decide. Not everyone shares the same religious views on adultery, and by that, I include atheists. As they have no spiritual beliefs, who's to say they find adultery immoral? I do find it immoral, but since it isn't against the law in every state, I'm in no position to enforce my will upon others. Child molestation is illegal in every state. Therefore, IMO, it can be classified as unethical by law.

There is no comparison between PSU and Arkansas.

 

[Negateer]

no we didn't. Vacated not forfeited


We still lost; just no one won

It was a joke, doofus.

 

[Negateer]

Punish those at fault, like vacating the wins, the 60 mil fine. All the other brass have been fired, so why punish the current players, staff, and fans? They had nothing to do with it. Bowl bans I get because of the freshness,but scholarships? Naw.

Every single NCAA punishment handed down, in the entire history of the organization, has punished the current players and staff, while the guilty have scooted off to a new gig.

So...you really don't have a point.

 

[e-VOL-ution2013]

No doubt the GA should have acted. Read my posts and you'll see I already said that. I'm unfamiliar with the janitor part, but if he witnessed something, he should have acted. The reason I come down so hard on JoePa is because he more than anyone had the power to stop this. I have friends from that area. Even before this happenned they told me of the God-like status of JoePa. I didn't understand what they were saying until the students went beserk. I have no issue with PSU. They have accepted their punishment and realized their failures in the Sandusky matter. I do have issue with those who covered this up, most especially JoePa who was the most powerful individual on that campus. Do I hate them? No, I don't, but I find their actions despicable. Go ahead and justify them covering up for a child molester. Oh wait, you in no way condone their actions yet here you are standing up for them. Way to be self-righteous.

PSU and Arkansas are in no way similar. You are delusional in thinking that. I try, I honestly try, to stay civil with my posts, but you are way off base. Several posters have explained to you why this was an NCAA issue. You refuse to believe them because you are conducting your own "witch hunt" against the NCAA. Isn't that what you accused the NCAA of doing? The fact that PSU willfully submitted to these sanctions blow any arguement you have out of the water. They recognize the NCAA's authority. It doesn't matter if you do or not, they do and have. Until the university itself stands up and challenges these sanctions, it doesn't matter how much *****ing and crying PSU fans, alumni, and supporters do because it won't change a damn thing.

I am not, let me repeat that so you can't reinterpret my thoughts into something else, NOT a fan of the NCAA. Do I believe they play favorites? Hell yeah I do. Do I think they took action in this matter for publicity purposes? To some degree, yes, I think they had to. I don't think they had a choice. It had to be addressed because it was dragging all of college football through the mud. Do I feel they overstepped any boundaries? No, I do not. The AD covered up a felony on university property. They administer punishment to ADs that act inappropriately. The individuals will face criminal charges in a court of law, but punishing the actions and the lack of control that happenned in this case are matters the NCAA can punish. Do I feel the penalty was too harsh? Hell no. You cannot do enough to protect a child. Will this deter sexual predators? No, but that wasn't the issue the NCAA was addressing. Will it deter future ADs from putting their programs before a child's well-being? It damn well should. Looking at what happenned to PSU should scare the hell out of them and make them think twice about making the same mistake. That's what punishments are supposed to do.

As I've already said, more than once, it is unfortunate that the student-athletes get caught in the crossfire, but the reponsibility for that does not fall on the NCAA, it falls on the men these student-athletes put their faith in. They were let down by the grad asst who failed to act. They were let down by the AD who failed to act. More than anyone, they were let down by JoePa, the most powerful figure on that campus(and if you need proof just check out all the student rallies supporting him still) who failed to act. The NCAA did what it had to do to protect the integrity of college football, and if you think they took enjoyment from it, you are out of your mind. No one wants to tear down an icon like JoePa on a whim. The NCAA has not benefitted from this in any way, shape, or form. If anything, they have been embarassed by it. All of college football took it on the chin because of the actions of a serial child rapist and the men who chose to cover it up.

How did this affect the integrity of football? If he had been a CEO of a multi million dollar corporation and this had happened should the BBB come in and santion the whole corporation? No he would haven been arrested and anyone involved would have been arresteed and prosecuted while the business itself would have been the ones to start over and change its own image. The same case here plain and simple. We say all the time that football is a business...well in business law handles these instances not the Auditors.

 

[Slacker90]

I don't think this is over. I think there will be lawsuits filed against the NCAA over this. ALL NCAA participating members have to be shaking in their collective boots over this punishment. No investigation, no listing of violations and broken rules, but the hammer was dropped and dropped hard. Just because "everyone agrees that the crime was horrible" doesn't justify ANY agency over stepping it's bounds and hammering anyone including you and me.

I don't think there will be any lawsuits from NCAA institutions since the Executive Committee and Division I Board of Directors (Both made of up of a number of College and University Presidents) had to sign off on this first. See the following:
NCAA Authority to Act - NCAA.com

If you read through this, you'll notice it states,"...it became obvious that the leadership failures at Penn State over an extended period of time directly violated Association bylaws and the NCAA Constitution relating to control over the athletic department, integrity and ethical conduct."

By leadership failures, I don't believe they're solely talking about the Sandusky issue. It also had to do with a general culture where a football coach's power was unchecked and even the University President would not challenge him.

Please see the following related to non-Sandusky issues:
The woman who stood up to Joe Paterno - CNN.com

Getting back to Sandusky, and the power of the football program and those associated with it...
There was a question of him not being part of the football program and how the NCAA can hold him accountable for his actions. Here is a timeline directly from the Freeh Report:
February 1998 - After learning that Paterno has told Sandusky that he would not become the next head football coach, Curley begins discussions with Sandusky about other positions at the University, including an Assistant AD position that Sandusky turns down. Curley keeps Spanier and Schultz informed by email.
January 1999 - Curley emails Spanier and Schultz: Sandusky wants to coach one more year and then transition to an outreach program.
May - August 1999 - Sandusky writes a letter to Curley saying, because he will not be next head football coach, he is considering retirement. Sandusky also seeks "to maintain a long-term relationship with the University."
-Curley emails Spanier and Schultz, discussing Sandusky's retirement options: "Joe did give him the option to continue to coach as long as he was the coach." Suggests possibility of Sandusky "coaching three more seasons."
-Sandusky proposes continuing connection with Penn State, including running a middle school youth football camp and finding "ways for [Sandusky] to continue to work with young people through Penn State." Paterno handwriting on the note states: "Volunteer Position Director - Positive Action for Youth."
-A retirement agreement with Sandusky is reached in June 1999, including an unusual lump sum payment of $168,000, an agreement for the University to "work collaboratively" with Sandusky on Second Mile and other community activities, and free lifetime use of East Area Locker Room facilities.
-As the retirement package is being finalized, Curley requests the emergency re-hire of Sandusky for the 1999 football season, which is approved.
-In August 1999, Sandusky is granted "emeritus" rank, which carries several privileges, including access to University recreational facilities. Documents show the unusual request for emeritus rank originated from Schultz, was approved by Spanier, and granted by the Provost, who expressed some uneasiness about the decision given Sandusky's low academic rank and the precedent that would be set.

My guess is by having emeritus status (which also included keeping an office in the Lasch Building, as well as keys to the building), the NCAA still considered him part of the football program.

Also note, one of Sandusky's victims was invited by him to the 1999 Alamo Bowl when he was the DC. The victim stayed in Sandusky's hotel room where he was assaulted.

Now with regards to Paterno and his knowledge of Sandusky's behavior there is this also from the Freeh Report:
February 9, 2001 - Sandusky assaults Victim 2 in Lasch Building Shower. McQueary witnesses the assault by Sandusky.
February 10-12, 2001 - McQueary reports the assault to Paterno on Saturday, February 10
-Paterno tells McQueary, "you did what you had to do. It's my job now to figure out what we want to do."
- Paterno reports the incident to Curley and Schultz on Sunday, February 11 as Paterno did not "want to interfere with their weekends."
- On Sunday, February 11, Schultz consults with University outside counsel Wendell Courtney "re reporting of suspected child abuse."
- On Monday, Spanier, Schultz and Curley meet to discuss a situation that Spanier describes as "unique", and a "heads-up" meeting; Schultz's confidential notes indicate he spoke to Curley, reviewed the history of the 1998 incident, and agreed that Curley would discuss the incident with Paterno and recommend that Curley meet with Sandusky. Schultz notes state: "Unless he confesses to having a problem, [Curley] will indicate we need to have DPW review the matter as an independent agency concerned w child welfare."
- Schultz asks University Police Department Chief Harmon if the report of the 1998 incident is in police files; Harmon responds that it is.

February 25-26, 2001 - Spanier, Schultz and Curley meet and devise an action plan, reflected in Schultz's notes: "3) Tell chair* of Board of Second Mile 2) Report to Dept of Welfare. 1) Tell JS [Sandusky] to avoid bringing children alone into Lasch Bldg *who's the chair??" The plan is confirmed in a subsequent email from Schultz to Curley.

February 27-28, 2001 - Curley emails Schultz and Spanier and says he [Curley] has changed his mind about the plan "after giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe [Paterno] yesterday." Curley now proposes to tell Sandusky "we feel there is a problem" and offer him "professional help." "If he is cooperative we would work with him to handle informing" the Second Mile; if Sandusky does not cooperate, "we don't have a choice and will inform" DPW and the Second Mile. "Additionally, I will let him know that his guests are not permitted to use our facilities."
- Spanier emails Curley and Schultz: "This approach is acceptable to me." He adds: "The only downside for us is if the message isn?t 'heard' and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it. But that can be assessed down the road. The approach you outline is humane and a reasonable way to proceed."
- Schultz concurs with the plan in an email to Curley and Spanier: "this is a more humane and upfront way to handle this." Schultz adds, "we can play it by ear" about informing DPW of the assault.

As far as due process, I believe Emmert is on record as saying that the Freeh Report contains more information than their own investigators would be able to acquire. So why should they spend the time and money for something that will be redundant to what is currently available? Lest we also forget that the NCAA investigative powers are almost useless. Most of their heavier penalties have been based upon the documentation and under oath testamony in criminal cases like USC, Ohio State, & possibly Miami. In addition, isn't one of the criticisms of NCAA investigations that they move at a snail's pace?

With regards to setting a precedent, I'm now curious to see what will happen with the University of Montana and their football program.


Sorry for the waaay long winded post.

 

[FootVolintheFall]

Also included with the Freeh Report were the university's policy on reporting suspected child abuse, somewhat followed in 1998, but completely ignored in 2001. It involved the suspect as a football/former football coach as well the head football coach and AD covering up said activities. It totally involved the football program, maybe not the current players, but is usually the case when the NCAA hands out punishment.

What's ironic is when students are interviewed, nobody admits of what went on or expresses concern over the victim. In fact, they make themselves sound like victims. On the other hand, the first thing out of the ACC coaches mouths last night was expressing concern for all the victims of the actual abuse scandal.

 

[82_VOL_83]

And you don't think they would parade a prospect in/near his office, introduce him as one of the great PS coaches and let him give the prospect the warm and fuzzies? No pun intended. Why else would they give him an office and use of the facilities. Even in retirement I feel he was still "connected" making him an outside entity via his charity.

I quite honestly don't know what they did and you don't either.

This is getting tired. Pleading a point with people who jumped on the bandwagon and started screaming he's a witch he's a witch 9 months ago is old.

Peace.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Not correct. The wins were vacated not forfieted therefore they do not get reversed and go as a win to the teams that lost to PSU during the time period in the NCAA sanctions.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

If there wins are vacated and they were ahead of us by two places, we will move up one spot. He isn't talking about us gaining wins, it's PSU losing them.

 

[82_VOL_83]

FTR, I googled which states adultery is illegal in. Arkansas is not on the list so he did not commit a crime. I also checked to see if any criminal charges were brought against him. No reference to charges ever being filed. So your accusations Petrino broke the law hold no weight. Also, the Arkansas AD was upfront about everything and in no way attempted to cover it up. As to whether adultery is ethical or not, that's up to individuals to decide. Not everyone shares the same religious views on adultery, and by that, I include atheists. As they have no spiritual beliefs, who's to say they find adultery immoral? I do find it immoral, but since it isn't against the law in every state, I'm in no position to enforce my will upon others. Child molestation is illegal in every state. Therefore, IMO, it can be classified as unethical by law.

There is no comparison between PSU and Arkansas.

Ethics and morality are two different things. They are tied together for many of us, but they are different. Adultery is unethical since you break a vow that you have made to someone else when you commit the act. I never argued it from a morality issue, just used your words. Adultery is unethical, just as is lying and breaking vows. I am not going back and researching it, but there was a cover-up of the accident and he also lied to the police officer that he talked too. I don't remember what happened to the charges or if any were filed. But lying to a cop about an accident is a crime, whether you consider it that or not, I don't really care.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Sorry for the waaay long winded post.

Very good post, thank you.

After reading through it, I will probably owe everyone an apology......stand bye.

Edit: What I get from this post besides sick to my stomach is pretty much what has been hashed and rehashed. Joe Pa participated in the cover up by not "going further" than he was required to do; an unforgivable ethical and moral failure. I am not saying he isn't guilty of failure to do all he could, however, I maintain that the NCAA WAY overstepped their bounds with this punishment.

As far as the woman in the first article.....every University has one. We had one here with CPF. Not saying they aren't correct, but just that every University has a staff member that will eventually stand up to the establishment.

Weezer, I'm not on an NCAA witch hunt. They have been exposed time and time again and they don't need someone as meaningless as me pointing that out. My point all along is that the NCAA has jumped at an opportunity to get a piece of the punishment pie and as a result, the collateral damage is unjustified. I guess I am to gather that your opine and that of many others is that instead of punishing someone to the full extent of the LAW that you should punish them to their full extent to be punished. Sandusky and the others are going to get what is coming to them via our court system. Your dislike of PSU and Joe Pa's "empire" is coming through repeatedly. There are several people that were in DIRECT positions to do something about this and they turned a blind eye. The GA could have gone straight to the cops instead of going home to daddy although I guess the shock of seeing a "trusted family friend" doing this was a little overwhelming.

This was an ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT issue, it was NOT an issue related to the student athletes. This was a UNIVERSITY issue, NOT an issue related to the student athletes. I am trying to get you to see that I believe that NO punishment is severe enough for Sandusky and the University employee's that turned a more or less blind eye. But the NCAA walked in and dropped a nuclear bomb and figuratively killed EVERYONE, football, basketball, baseball, etc. etc. They didn't directly sanction the other sports but the loss of revenue over the next 5 years plus an immediate loss of $60MM will affect all of the athletes in a negative manner. This makes what CDD has had to overcome look like a cake walk.

 

[82_VOL_83]

And yes, I will apologize to Weezer and others for saying that the NCAA had no jurisdiction. After doing some much needed research, I would agree that they basically have full jurisdiction to do whatever the hell they want. That is what the members have signed up for. I still maintain that they overstepped here and will continue to maintain that thought. This has nothing to do with guilt or innocence of PSU and their employee's and former employee's, it has to do with the NCAA needlessly creating havoc and collateral damage where it should not have been created......as is typical of the NCAA.