Vols are basically returning 19 starters

#51
#51
MWAVolfan said:
never mind the fact that we are returning a bunch of players that turned in an 0-8 SEC record.
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While this may be technically accurate it will be interesting to see how different the lineup for UWV will be from 2017 Vandy game. I doubt that there will be more than 6-7 guys who started against Vandy trotting out on Sept. 1. The only ones that I can recall that would be pretty much a sure thing to start are Callaway, Johnson at WR, Trey Smith, Richmand, Kongbo, and Bituli. Beyond that who started against Vandy that is a shoo- in to take the field against UWV?
 
#52
#52
Yes, we all know we were 4-8 last year. But look at our 4-8. We took OU to double over time. We took South Carolina to a goal line stand. F'd ourselves on the goal line with Florida. How many games were we ahead going into the 4th quarter? That record, while as sucky as it is, if you look past the W/L when thinking about this year, then think how close we were to having a winning record. And yes, I know the counter point of we could have been worse. But I'm talking the difference of a good S&C coach and quality SEC coaches that are in place now. Looking just at last years record is why everyone is writing TN off this year. But those who go back and look at the details of those losses, are the ones who are having a little more confidence in us being better than 5-7 or 6-6. I'm staying positive until I have a reason not to. Go Vols beat WVU!!
 
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#53
#53
1974Vol said:
While this may be technically accurate it will be interesting to see how different the lineup for UWV will be from 2017 Vandy game. I doubt that there will be more than 6-7 guys who started against Vandy trotting out on Sept. 1. The only ones that I can recall that would be pretty much a sure thing to start are Callaway, Johnson at WR, Trey Smith, Richmand, Kongbo, and Bituli. Beyond that who started against Vandy that is a shoo- in to take the field against UWV?
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surely more players that started games last year will start against WV
 
#54
#54
MWAVolfan said:
surely more players that started games last year will start against WV
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Probably but the point is by the end of the season many of those starters were out for the season and many had been gone for a long time. The team that takes the field against UWV won't look much like the one that finished the last few games of 2017.
 
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#55
#55
MWAVolfan said:
how are you determining "better"? On what basis? Perceived talent? Perceived experience? Certainly not proven on field results. 0-8 last year and an all around poor reception in spring practice. Where are you connecting the dots?
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MWA, I am not trying to sound condescending, but I believe it is common sense that we will be better at all positions. I will ask you another question and maybe you can answer it for me. Who did we lose last year that makes you think we will be worse at one of our position groups (barring kicking game)?
 
#57
#57
The Original Fade said:
Not sure we’re better at RB, and none of us know if we’re improved at coaching. We think so, but we don’t really know yet
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Fair. However, I would say that with the addition of London and the "growing up" of younger talent (Jordan, Banks) and the addition of scheme that suits our backs we should be "slightly better" at that position. Kelly was awesome, but I think all around this group will be better.

As far as coaching is concerned let me lay it out like this. you pick which one you think is best in each listing.

Pruitt vs. Jones
Helton vs. Scott
Helton vs. Canales
Neidemeyer vs. Scott
Weinke vs. Gillespie
Friend vs. Walt Wells
Johnson vs. Beard
Rocker vs. Hoke
Rumph vs. Thigpen
Fair vs. Warren
 
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#58
#58
VolsnRavens said:
Yes, we all know we were 4-8 last year. But look at our 4-8. We took OU to double over time. We took South Carolina to a goal line stand. F'd ourselves on the goal line with Florida. How many games were we ahead going into the 4th quarter? That record, while as sucky as it is, if you look past the W/L when thinking about this year, then think how close we were to having a winning record. And yes, I know the counter point of we could have been worse. But I'm talking the difference of a good S&C coach and quality SEC coaches that are in place now. Looking just at last years record is why everyone is writing TN off this year. But those who go back and look at the details of those losses, are the ones who are having a little more confidence in us being better than 5-7 or 6-6. I'm staying positive until I have a reason not to. Go Vols beat WVU!!
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#59
#59
VolsnRavens said:
Yes, we all know we were 4-8 last year. But look at our 4-8. We took OU to double over time. We took South Carolina to a goal line stand. F'd ourselves on the goal line with Florida. How many games were we ahead going into the 4th quarter? That record, while as sucky as it is, if you look past the W/L when thinking about this year, then think how close we were to having a winning record. And yes, I know the counter point of we could have been worse. But I'm talking the difference of a good S&C coach and quality SEC coaches that are in place now. Looking just at last years record is why everyone is writing TN off this year. But those who go back and look at the details of those losses, are the ones who are having a little more confidence in us being better than 5-7 or 6-6. I'm staying positive until I have a reason not to. Go Vols beat WVU!!
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Im def wit it
 
#61
#61
VolAllen said:
Forgive me if I’m not overly excited that we start the same fellas that set the new record low for our program......forgive me.
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Once again last year has absolutely nothing to do with this year, maybe for the "fans" that read the click bait articles and then pretend to know football.
 
#62
#62
MBVFL1 said:
Once again last year has absolutely nothing to do with this year, maybe for the "fans" that read the click bait articles and then pretend to know football.
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Unfortunately 6 months with a new coaching staff is not going to negate all of the S&C and position/squad development issues that existed under Butch's watch.
 
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#64
#64
volfan_28 said:
Some dude on CBS predicted that Florida makes it to the playoffs because they are returning 19 starters... I'm just applying his logic to the Vols.
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Without checking the numbers, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we have a lot more than 19 starters because there were a lot of people that technically started games last year that will be riding the pine this year.
 
#68
#68
volfan_28 said:
Let me ask you a serious question. Do you really think we'd of lost to Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt if Jeremy Pruitt and Ty Helton were coaching the Vols instead of Butch Jones and Mike Canales?
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So, the new coaching staff is worth 4 wins and we should have been undefeated in 2016? I hope we're better, but you're assuming all the injuries don't happen with a different staff and that the players would develop at their position at a better rate and the O-line magically is better. We also had Shoop at defensive coordinator who was a genius before coming to UT. In my opinion, we need more Jimmys and Joes.
 
#70
#70
aaronvol said:
Fair. However, I would say that with the addition of London and the "growing up" of younger talent (Jordan, Banks) and the addition of scheme that suits our backs we should be "slightly better" at that position. Kelly was awesome, but I think all around this group will be better.

As far as coaching is concerned let me lay it out like this. you pick which one you think is best in each listing.

Pruitt vs. Jones
Helton vs. Scott
Helton vs. Canales
Neidemeyer vs. Scott
Weinke vs. Gillespie
Friend vs. Walt Wells
Johnson vs. Beard
Rocker vs. Hoke
Rumph vs. Thigpen
Fair vs. Warren
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This SAYS IT ALL. A lot of returning players also had a good 2016 season. We are much more talented than people think. Are we as talented as UGA, UA, AU, or LSU??? NO WAY!!! But, UT is as talented or more than every other SEC team!!!! The coaching is going to make a huge difference this year!!! Walt Wells wasn't a good OL coach. Look at what Friend did a CSU. Yes, they didn't play SEC talent. But, they played some very good teams and finished in the 30s in rushing every year with 5.3, 5.4, and 5.6 OL!!! He can coach an OL. Let's just hope he is as good as or better than Mike Barry. We have only been in the top 25 in rushing 2-3 times in the last 20 years. If we are a top 25 rushing team. We will win at least 8 games with the D we expect to have and better QB play.

Scott was lost as last years Easter egg as an OC!!! He was terrible. Shoop did well as a D coordinator 2-3 games during his tenure. Canales, Beard, Hoke, Thig, and Warren weren't elite coaches. I think we upgraded at every coaching position. Gillespie and Weinke may be about even. We shall see. Thig could recruit. But, he wasn't a great position coach.

Everyone is questioning Pruitt's offensive mind. According to Helton, Pruitt has a very good offensive mind as well. Either Helton will be a bust or CJP knows O too. We shall see. I think you have to understand O pretty well to be a great D coordinator. And, CJP has been a great D coordinator everywhere he has been. He improved FSU's, UGA's, and even Bama's D!!! Bama always has a great D. But, it was better with CJP as a coordinator. I think CJP may have a better D mind than Smart. Let's hope so!!! GO VOLS!!!
 
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#71
#71
BeardedVol said:
Well that depends entirely on which 10 games you see us winning.
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We've got a chance against all except UGA and Alabama. Auburn will also be tough to beat, but I'm not ruling it out as a possibility yet. Other than those three, there's not a team on our schedule that won more than 8 regular season games. We weren't far behind South Carolina, Florida, West Virginia, Missouri, and Vanderbilt last season... and that was with all our injuries and Butch Jones. We're probably more talented than 9 of 12 teams on our schedule.
 
#72
#72
ksgovols said:
So, the new coaching staff is worth 4 wins and we should have been undefeated in 2016? I hope we're better, but you're assuming all the injuries don't happen with a different staff and that the players would develop at their position at a better rate and the O-line magically is better. We also had Shoop at defensive coordinator who was a genius before coming to UT. In my opinion, we need more Jimmys and Joes.
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Now you're just being unreasonable.

Edit: Sorry, I'll try. Just getting frustrated with people acting like this is some kind of stretch.

I don't know why you're talking about 2016. Yes, I'm assuming we won't experience as many injuries as we did last season, which was a historically bad season with respect to injuries. Yes, I'm assuming that Helton will develop QBs better than Canales, Friend will develop players better than Wells, and our LBs will be developed better. Yes, I'm assuming our O-line will be better, but magically? Don't be like that. Hall is back. Smith is back. We've added a quality center. Richmond has had another year to develop. And we've added Carvin who is getting reps with the starters this week which suggests that he's an upgrade over Johnson. We've upgraded talent at 3 of 5 OL positions - that isn't magic. Shoop sucked.... Penn State didn't seem to miss him did they? He was successful because of Franklin, not visa versa. More Jimmys and Joes would be nice, but we're not nearly as depleted as people are making it out to be.
 
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#73
#73
volfan_28 said:
Huh? Kenndy and Wood-Anderson are seasoned veterans and Chandler made some big plays last season. None of them are true freshmen.
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The point is that you're saying that we have 3 upgrades that weren't starters while ignoring that every other team has the same situation.
 
#74
#74
bamawriter said:
You're arguing that there is no difference between 16 and 19.
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He is counting players that started here or for other programs. The others he referenced were not starting last year at the college level. This and Alabama's counting of championships proves a point. I don't agree with his logic but the math is not complicated.
 
#75
#75
volfan_28 said:
Now you're just being unreasonable.

Edit: Sorry, I'll try. Just getting frustrated with people acting like this is some kind of stretch.

I don't know why you're talking about 2016. Yes, I'm assuming we won't experience as many injuries as we did last season, which was a historically bad season with respect to injuries. Yes, I'm assuming that Helton will develop QBs better than Canales, Friend will develop players better than Wells, and our LBs will be developed better. Yes, I'm assuming our O-line will be better, but magically? Don't be like that. Hall is back. Smith is back. We've added a quality center. Richmond has had another year to develop. And we've added Carvin who is getting reps with the starters this week which suggests that he's an upgrade over Johnson. We've upgraded talent at 3 of 5 OL positions - that isn't magic. Shoop sucked.... Penn State didn't seem to miss him did they? He was successful because of Franklin, not visa versa. More Jimmys and Joes would be nice, but we're not nearly as depleted as people are making it out to be.
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100% agree with you, it's funny listening to some people say well same team that went 4-8. It's not the same team, the coaches will make a huge difference and the " new staff can't change anything in 6 months that was mismanaged for multiple years" statement isn't true either. You can tell this team wasn't buying what Butch was selling anymore and they quit, but look how quick they bought in to CJP
 
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